I Have to Say Something

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

Many breeders have waiting lists and would breed if they didn't.

Oops...correction...I mean wouldn't breed if they didn't.

[Sugar's Mom]

She is laying down then sitting back up then laying back down...the only thing is that when she sits up she holds her head up for a little while then she lets it drop and then she lays down, as if she is extra tired...that is making me worried, and has anyone ever heard of a dog pushing and not seeing nothing at all no matter how many times she push, including blood or anything else??? how many times does a dog have to push before you can see anything??? She is a tiny yorkie, she was only 4 pounds the last time we checked and my boy is 6.5 pds that really worries me.

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Last edited by nydia : 12-26-2006 at 12:10 AM.

Posts like this are why experienced breeders get upset and that is just one of many. i don't know if this breeding was an oops or not but a four pound female and a six and a half male? A little research would have told you that shouldn't be. hopefully, it was an oops and you have learned better now. pardon me, I saw in another one of your threads it is an oops. the thread where you were asking how many times should you let your pups nurse a day. newborn pups.

[MyFairLacy]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

Seriously?!?

1) Many breeders spend far more supporting their programs then they could ever hope to make back from selling a pup. Yes, they sell them, but the money is not profit, it's covering the costs they've already spent.

2) You don't see people adopting dogs or placing them for free because most breeders don't feel the need to report such specifics regarding their breedings to the general public. I know of several people who have placed pups for free for various reasons. Do you know how many people they would have beating down their door for a free dog if that every got out. It's not at all uncommon for a breeder to place a retired dog for nothing, or a pup they want to watch and possibly breed back to in the future going to someone they know. (Not saying that some probably don't make some profit, because I know they do, but that is not always the case and NOT their main reason for breeding...BIG difference there.) Why would you expect any breeder to divulge that information?

3) Competition? I'm sorry, but the people I see being discouraged from breeding are those breeding solely for profit, or those breeding without having researched, those that are putting their dogs' lives in danger, not because they are considered as competition. Many breeders have waiting lists and would breed if they didn't. So how exactly would an ill prepared aspiring breeder be posing any competition to them? I just don't understand that reasoning.

It is NOT about competition or profit...the good breeders here (and those that love the breed) get upset because others aren't breeding the right way and they are hurting the breed and not doing what is best for the dogs.

[magnolia]

Originally Posted by Sugar's Mom

nydia, I think what Misty is saying is not that there are mean breeders on here or that people get tired of the same questions being asked over and over but that so many new wannabe breeders come on here and ask advice then when they get it, they don't take it. They just do what they want to do regardless and they don't have a clue and as far as making money, how many times have we seen some brand new breeder come on here and the first post they write is "How much should I sell my puppies for?" i think you have missed the whole point of this thread .

I was not going to post on this thread because I'm not a breeder nor do I ever intend on being one but I think you summed it up quite nicely The whole point of Misty's original post was the new breeders (and if we want this breed to continue, there will be new breeders) come on here looking for advice/suggestions/help then when it's given, they don't heed the very advice they came here for. And I'm not lumping all new breeders into this statement - those who ask and don't heed know who they are just as those who ask and take the advice to heart know who they are. As someone else said, if you're going to take the time to post your question and seek advice, be prepared for the answer you're going to get. There are some truly wonderful breeders here who are more than willing to help a novice out - some post regularly, some barely visit the board anymore (and they are missed) - just relax and listen to what they say - they've been down the road you are venturing out on and they actually do know a thing or two about the breed - and I'm guessing through mistakes they may have made on their own when they first started out or nerves/blood/sweat/tears - the point is, they FEEL your anxiety/nervousness over starting out.

[nydia]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

Seriously?!?

1) Many breeders spend far more supporting their programs then they could ever hope to make back from selling a pup. Yes, they sell them, but the money is not profit, it's covering the costs they've already spent.

2) You don't see people adopting dogs or placing them for free because most breeders don't feel the need to report such specifics regarding their breedings to the general public. I know of several people who have placed pups for free for various reasons. Do you know how many people they would have beating down their door for a free dog if that every got out. It's not at all uncommon for a breeder to place a retired dog for nothing, or a pup they want to watch and possibly breed back to in the future going to someone they know. (Not saying that some probably don't make some profit, because I know they do, but that is not always the case and NOT their main reason for breeding...BIG difference there.) Why would you expect any breeder to divulge that information?

3) Competition? I'm sorry, but the people I see being discouraged from breeding are those breeding solely for profit, or those breeding without having researched, those that are putting their dogs' lives in danger, not because they are considered as competition. Many breeders have waiting lists and would breed if they didn't. So how exactly would an ill prepared aspiring breeder be posing any competition to them? I just don't understand that reasoning.

Truth is everybody at one point or another didn't know a thing about breeding, they had to learn, and you don't know a persons situation to make the assumption that they bred their dogs just for profit and my point to the whole post is how can you sit at your computer desk ridiculing someone who's pet is having babies and now they are trying to sell them? who knows what their reason is for selling pups, maybe to make profit, maybe to make the money back they have lost caring for a pregnant dog and her litter, I'm here to say I'm not one to breed for profit, nor do I sell my pups, I'm just trying to make the perfect show dog, my Blaine is perfect in agility and has won numerous trophies, Charlie is perfect in my eye's but not the right size to win in overall competition, so let me make it clear why I said what I said, alot of times the first thing I see when I read a post from someone asking for help, I see most times they are attacked and accused of breeding dogs for the wrong reason like trying to make money or whatever when the fact is when you breed your selling your puppies too. All Sabrina's babies live with me and Lucy's babies will go to my mom and my grandmother for companionship none of my babies are sold and I paid for sabrina to have a c-section. I just see what I see, don't point the finger if your doing the same thing, only difference is you've already been through the ridicule and have already learned your lesson about breeding, the person your cursing out doesn't know a thing most times. If you can't help don't say nothing at all, mind your business and keep it moving, if I can't help why put my two cents in it?

[nydia]

Originally Posted by Sugar's Mom

She is laying down then sitting back up then laying back down...the only thing is that when she sits up she holds her head up for a little while then she lets it drop and then she lays down, as if she is extra tired...that is making me worried, and has anyone ever heard of a dog pushing and not seeing nothing at all no matter how many times she push, including blood or anything else??? how many times does a dog have to push before you can see anything??? She is a tiny yorkie, she was only 4 pounds the last time we checked and my boy is 6.5 pds that really worries me.

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Last edited by nydia : 12-26-2006 at 12:10 AM.

Posts like this are why experienced breeders get upset and that is just one of many. i don't know if this breeding was an oops or not but a four pound female and a six and a half male? A little research would have told you that shouldn't be. hopefully, it was an oops and you have learned better now. pardon me, I saw in another one of your threads it is an oops. the thread where you were asking how many times should you let your pups nurse a day. newborn pups.

Like I said before, at the time I had Sabrina she was not suppose to get pregnant my vet and mentor wanted me to wait until she gained more weight to spay her, when I bought Sabrina it was with the intention of breeding her the breeder I brought her from said she would grow to be anywhere between 6 to 7 pounds, when she did not grow to that size I wanted to get her spayed but my vet and mentor who basically taught me everything there is to know about breeding wanted me to wait until Sabrina gained a little weight at the time I wanted to get her spayed she was only 2.5 pounds. During her heat I kept her separated from Blaine at all times with a baby gate and when they were not in the gate she was in diapers, if a dog wants to mate he/she will find a way, who knows if she got stuck with him through the baby gate all I know is she got pregnant and had it not been during the Christmas vacation I would have had my mentor with me a great man I might add instead of having to come on here to get yelled at by so called professional breeders. I did take her to the emergency where she was given a c-section and where I was going to have her spayed but thanks to one very wonderful woman on here who gave me her number after seeing all the B.S I had to listen to told me not to spay her right away to let her heal from her c-section I would have done a terrible thing because the doctors suggested I get her spayed during her c-section and because he was a doctor I was going to give him the go ahead, but thanks to an experienced breeder and wonderful person my Sabrina is just fine. Like I said had my vet not been away on vacation I would of never had to go through the stuff I went through on here, my vet breeds bull dogs for show, I wanted to do the same with yorkies and he is helping me. Another thing I might add, you can't always listen to the opinion of your vet it's best to talk to someone who has experience but where can you go when you have an issue with your pet and the only place to go is a place where you get attacked???

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by nydia

Truth is everybody at one point or another didn't know a thing about breeding, they had to learn, and you don't know a persons situation to make the assumption that they bred their dogs just for profit

There have been several member lately who have ADMITTED that they are breeding only for profit...it wasn't anything anyone assumed--it was something that was told outright, or that they put in their profiles. I think when that is the case, that is when people are getting upset in that regard. I don't think anyone automatically assumes a breeder--seasoned or new--is breeding for profit. I honestly can't think of one instant when someone was criticized for it without stating that was their goal first.

I don't think I've ever seen anyone put down just for being new to breeding and asking questions. However, there is a big difference in asking for questions and researching if you are planning on breeding and asking those same questions when your bitch is due anytime and then ignoring the answers you get. Yes, everyone starts somewhere. We all did and you can't blame anyone for that. But learning requires listening and considering the information given, not ignoring it and getting upset because you didn't get the answers you wanted.

[nydia]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

There have been several member lately who have ADMITTED that they are breeding only for profit...it wasn't anything anyone assumed--it was something that was told outright, or that they put in their profiles. I think when that is the case, that is when people are getting upset in that regard. I don't think anyone automatically assumes a breeder--seasoned or new--is breeding for profit. I honestly can't think of one instant when someone was criticized for it without stating that was their goal first.

I don't think I've ever seen anyone put down just for being new to breeding and asking questions. However, there is a big difference in asking for questions and researching if you are planning on breeding and asking those same questions when your bitch is due anytime and then ignoring the answers you get. Yes, everyone starts somewhere. We all did and you can't blame anyone for that. But learning requires listening and considering the information given, not ignoring it and getting upset because you didn't get the answers you wanted.

Trust me when I tell you my experience on here when Sabrina was pregnant was the worste experience if it wasn't for Kimberly aka feminvstr I would have probably had a heart attack and died all the stuff I had to go through, trust me I got some private messages that will blow your mind, "someone should breed you for profit" was that comment necessary when they didn't even know my situation? I reported them to the yt community but nothing happened they are still here. Yes it was my intention to become a breeder of Yorkie show dogs, but it was not my intention for Sabrina to have babies I knew she was too little and I did all I could to keep her from getting pregnant yet I was yelled at like I took Blaine and Sabrina and purposely locked them in a room together, that was not the case. Anyway it doesn't matter, people are not going to change on here, there are still going to be the people who have no knowledge whatsoever when it comes to breeding and there will still be the people who swear they know everything but will refuse to give you any real help because in their eye's your not worthy of their advice that is how I see it.

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by nydia

Trust me when I tell you my experience on here when Sabrina was pregnant was the worste experience if it wasn't for Kimberly aka feminvstr I would have probably had a heart attack and died all the stuff I had to go through, trust me I got some private messages that will blow your mind, "someone should breed you for profit" was that comment necessary when they didn't even know my situation?

That's unfortunate that you were accused of that if that wasn't the case. (But alot of times it IS the case.)

And yeah, Kimberly is great...I consider myself very lucky to have become friends with her over the years. She has helped out many during her time on YT and has offered her time anytime there was something she thought she could help with. She's always one of the first I turn to when I have a question or when I'm bored and just need to call someone who'll listen.

[PrestigeousYT]

I found it frustrating when we would try to help and there would be posts from people who really should still be sitting back and taking notes.
They would post things that they thought were right etc. and not even come close to giving the correct info. I hate to see someone being told wrong.
I have been showing Yorkies since 99 and been around toy dogs/breeding all of my life. My mom bred Chihuahuas. I sat back for years listening and learning.
I always knew there was someone who knew way more than I did and I let them speak up. I still would rather see the older breeders speak up first. They have been there done that with almost everything and I still sit back and take notes too. But today we seem to have the ones who feel they have instantly become the experienced and most knowledgeable.
When I see a post where I can be of help I do try to help out.

Deana
Prestigeous Yorkies

[Susan123]

Originally Posted by PrestigeousYT

I found it frustrating when we would try to help and there would be posts from people who really should still be sitting back and taking notes.
They would post things that they thought were right etc. and not even come close to giving the correct info. I hate to see someone being told wrong.
I have been showing Yorkies since 99 and been around toy dogs/breeding all of my life. My mom bred Chihuahuas. I sat back for years listening and learning.
I always knew there was someone who knew way more than I did and I let them speak up. I still would rather see the older breeders speak up first. They have been there done that with almost everything and I still sit back and take notes too. But today we seem to have the ones who feel they have instantly become the experienced and most knowledgeable.
When I see a post where I can be of help I do try to help out.

Deana
Prestigeous Yorkies

I totally agree. I still take mental notes from some also. Though not near as much unfortunately. But most of the time it is the "instantly experienced" that jump and answer the posts, usually 10 at a time. It would be hard to be heard and when the majority is wrong, well there's not much you can do. Besides posting and hoping they listen and take the right advice.

This is why, when I'm on a thread and I see different views, I'll post "Listen to what ..... said please"

[cesar49]

Originally Posted by yorkiekist

Why must all of the experenced or knowledgeable breeders need to "sugar coat" the information that someone is asking? Breeding should be taken seriously and if unimformed first time "breeders" are asking VERY basic questions, then they have no business breeding period. I mean, come on. I have seen questions on here and I wonder if some of these people have EVER even heard of the birds and the bees. I am all for helping people with their questions but I would rather give them the hard, blunt truth on what may or may not happen or why every run of the mill cute wonderful Yorkie should not be bred. And maybe, just maybe, a first time "breeder" will take a look at what they are doing and not breed or will do the health testing first, or will be more informed and prepared mentally and finacially.

i guess new breeders need to understand why testing is so important

[MyFairLacy]

Originally Posted by cesar49

i guess new breeders need to understand why testing is so important

The thing is...they still don't do it! A new member joined recently and many people told her to health screen her dogs..she had no clue about the history of these dogs or anything. Just bought them because she got a cheap deal on some breeding dogs. Went through the whole explanation on what to test for and everything..Did she do it? Nope...as soon as the female came into heat, she bred it. No health screening done at all

things like that are what is SO frustrating! I just can't tell you how irritating it is to see clueless people breeding Why can't people just do their research before they jump into breeding and learn instead of getting defensive? Why can't people only breed healthy, quality dogs? Why can't they just breed for the right reasons? I'm just sick of it

[MyFairLacy]

I also want to say that yes, everyone starts somewhere...and everyone makes mistakes. But people can learn from their mistakes if they'll just let themselves...people CAN start over and start breeding the right way and for the right reasons. It's not that difficult to do...and isn't it worth it to produce quality, healthy dogs? My wish is for everyone to just stop being so defensive and just educate themselves.

[matilda99]

Originally Posted by nydia

I agree with you, two years ago I was a new breeder, I had a mentor but my mentor did not breed yorkies, he bred bull do .....with your post. In fact I think the real reason why some of these breeders on here want to yell at you if your a new breeder and want to learn something, is to discourage you from breeding so they won't be in competition with you. That is my guess at these mean breeders on here.

Hmmmm, I've been wondering about that too...