I Have to Say Something

[Ladyhawk]

I had both of my dogs evaluated by the team from Pure Paws this past weekend. Arlene asked me if I wanted the truth, I said yes!! If you don't want someone's honest opinion than you shouldn't ask for it. You don't even have to agree with their opinion but if they are going to take the time to give it to you than be open to what they have to say and give it honest consideration. You don't have to agree with their opinion but respect is always in order.

[cesar49]

there are experienced breeders who show their dogs because they want to share the success... thats wonderful...
also takes money
newer breeders are building, or can never afford the time or money to invest in the luxury of showing
i guess that is a luxury some breeders have earned.
i am a little jealous.. but, still happy for all of your champs..
maybe in ten years....
breeders who show their dogs are in a different league..
they must know a lot about breeding and raising dogs for sure..
these people should be our mentors
however, they might be so proud of their dogs, they might have some blindness... a lot of humility needed..... jmo

[Breeze]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

I would just like to say something, generally speaking, not directed at anyone individually. I read a thread today that really made me think and helped me put alot of my thoughts into words:

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=122236

The thread in itself is a prime example of why people come here for help and don't get it, why people ask questions and don't get answers.

I have not been on in a few weeks...I've been dealing with some major speedbumps in life and have not had the chance to log on. Now that things are settling down and I have the chance to think about something else for a minute, I read all this and it just makes me want to cut my PC off.

Honestly, the disregard for these dogs and the attitudes directed at those who DO try to help is enough to turn anyone off of YT and breeding altogether.

More and more frequently, new members/breeders sign up and ask questions. People who clearly have limited (if any) knowledge regarding Yorkies as a breed and the breeding process altogether and people who openly have intention$, goal$ and motivation$, and practice$ generally frowned upon by the Yorkie community and those committed to it.

They come onto YT as newbies, learning as we all once did and ask basic questions--then begins the bickering!

This is why I do not come on YT anymore, great post Ba
Many of the questions are things that should be researced well in advance of breeding. Breeding is not something that should be picked up as you go along!

Nevertheless, those experienced and with many years of knowledge--either those who can stomach the stress or those who have not given up--answer the questions giving honestly and give good advice. Sometimes the answers are not the ones you want to hear and sometimes they come accross as harsh--all in an attempt to try to get others to realize the seriousness of breeding and how dangerous it can be if done irresponsibly! This results in many new members either genuinely feeling attacked or crying victim to gain support and distract attention from their newly established, questionable breeding practices--bottom line, the dogs and their well being sadly take a backseat to the new, 'more important' issue--who is being 'rude' and who got their feelings hurt. The advice and answers that were given are forgotten, ignored and not followed or even considered by those who claim to be here because they so desperately need help or want to learn?! Something there just doesn't add up. (Or maybe it is just as it seems.)

Then come the comments such as, "They are just going to do it anyway" and "May as well try to help out" Well, I'm sorry, but I for one refuse to 'help out' anyone who breeds irresponsibly. Furthermore, I know there are many others who feel the same way and who have 'given up' trying to help others as it only results in them being criticized for being truthful, God forbid.

So my point is, THIS is why so many of the long time, well respected breeders that are (or were) members here don't even log onto YT anymore and why those who do don't bother to answer questions or help anymore. I can think of several breeders who have been at this a long time, who have shown and had success doing it over the years, who I have learned alot from and who could offer information and share their experiences, greatly benefitting us all--several members who fit this mold but who don't come to YT anymore or bother to post at all.

It's really unfortunate. I can't speak for everyone, but I really miss some of the long time breeders that used to post frequently--I learned alot from them and enjoyed reading what they had to say. Now when I come to the breeder section, it's not filled with anything helpful at all.

I don't know the solution to the problem. Heck, I don't even know if there is a solution! And maybe it's because I've recently had to deal with something that made me reconsider what really takes priority in my life and has made me rethink things I thought I had my mind made up about a long time ago. But for whatever reason, this bickering among people who all have (or claim to have) the same concerns (their dogs!) in mind seems completely ridiculous and petty and completely non-productive. Like I said, I can't fix it, but I can choose not to involve myself in it and rather focus my attention on other things, both on and off YT, relating and not relating to dogs.

If you come on here and ask a question, then listen to the advice given and understand that some answers will be passionate and not what you hoped for, but maybe what you truly need to hear. If you're answering a question, let it go and don't stress over those who refuse to see reason. And regardless of who you are, let your dogs, not some point you are trying to prove, be your main concern.

Anyways....that's all I got.

This is way I no longer come to YT, it used to be my life. I haven't logged on or posted for months. I love yorkies so much more than someone who cares more about their feelings being hurt. When they do things that hurt the yorkie breed, they need to be told and learn not to do it. Life is tough, not every lesson learned is fun nor easy.

Yorkies First!! Isn't that why we are all here? Because we love yorkies? Not because we have rights, I am so sick of peoples rights (I can breed tinies, I can play dumb..... boo hoo), what about the yorkies, who looks out for their rights? I hope the members of YT do.

[Ladyhawk]

Originally Posted by cesar49

there are experienced breeders who show their dogs because they want to share the success... thats wonderful...
also takes money
newer breeders are building, or can never afford the time or money to invest in the luxury of showing
i guess that is a luxury some breeders have earned.
i am a little jealous.. but, still happy for all of your champs..
maybe in ten years....
breeders who show their dogs are in a different league..
they must know a lot about breeding and raising dogs for sure..
these people should be our mentors
however, they might be so proud of their dogs, they might have some blindness... a lot of humility needed..... jmo

When I attended my first show it was for my education because I wanted to be a breeder. When I entered my first dog it was to have him evaluated before he was bred to make sure that I was on the right track. It was and is still not a luxury but wometihing that I consider a necessity if I am to be a responsible breeder. Breeding these dogs is a priviledge, one that must be earned through hard work and education. I don't feel that breeders should be in different leagues whether you have a champion to show or not. All breeders should be required to know the standard for their breed, the health issues that are dominant in their breed, and the temperment requirements or their breed. All breeders should be striving to improve upon these issues and continually educating themselves in an attempt to do so. Showing is to evaluate breeding stock and is a necessity if you want to breed with an educated eye, the insight of others more knowledgable than yourself is invaluable.

[bailey12]

I think part of the issue is assumptions are made based entirely on the question. I think the poster has to give an entire history about where they have been, what they are doing, and why they are "justified" in asking a question. In the referred to thread, after the original question, the very next post is "telling" the OP she needs to do medical testing, and didn't address the question at all. Turns out medical testing has been done. This has happened to me as well. My Zeus has MVD. He is almost 7 and doing great. I was posting to address concerns of someone going through this. Someone posted back to me as to something I should be doing for my dog's care!!! How does he/she know I didn't try that suggestion and maybe it didn't work for Zeus. Whether or not the question seems "silly" to some, it really may be the confusion and reality that the practical application of knowledge can be very different, and we question ourselves about what we are seeing and experiencing. It also doesn't necessarily mean the question is the sum total of one's knowledge. I also know very experienced and wonderful show/champion breeders who have had an oops breeding. It happens. Juliet

[cesar49]

showing a dog before using him or her to breed is a great idea.
but, not everyone has the rseources.. thanks for the advice

Originally Posted by Ladyhawk

When I attended my first show it was for my education because I wanted to be a breeder. When I entered my first dog it was to have him evaluated before he was bred to make sure that I was on the right track. It was and is still not a luxury but wometihing that I consider a necessity if I am to be a responsible breeder. Breeding these dogs is a priviledge, one that must be earned through hard work and education. I don't feel that breeders should be in different leagues whether you have a champion to show or not. All breeders should be required to know the standard for their breed, the health issues that are dominant in their breed, and the temperment requirements or their breed. All breeders should be striving to improve upon these issues and continually educating themselves in an attempt to do so. Showing is to evaluate breeding stock and is a necessity if you want to breed with an educated eye, the insight of others more knowledgable than yourself is invaluable.

[TeddyandTiffy]

Originally Posted by Ladyhawk

When I attended my first show it was for my education because I wanted to be a breeder. When I entered my first dog it was to have him evaluated before he was bred to make sure that I was on the right track. It was and is still not a luxury but wometihing that I consider a necessity if I am to be a responsible breeder. Breeding these dogs is a priviledge, one that must be earned through hard work and education. I don't feel that breeders should be in different leagues whether you have a champion to show or not. All breeders should be required to know the standard for their breed, the health issues that are dominant in their breed, and the temperment requirements or their breed. All breeders should be striving to improve upon these issues and continually educating themselves in an attempt to do so. Showing is to evaluate breeding stock and is a necessity if you want to breed with an educated eye, the insight of others more knowledgable than yourself is invaluable.

Very Well Said!!!

[ms_mato]

I so agree with you. You made many good points. I have had Yorkies for 35 years and currently own five Yorkies. I am not and never been a breeder. Being in the Yorkie world for so many years and seeing what breeder's go threw, money spent, loss of life and all the heartbreak, it is amazing they do it. I love the breed but I do see some real changes over the last ten years that makes me very sad. Finding a reputable breeder is so hard and people really need to spend the time and do the home work before purchasing any puppy. There are no bargains. FOR CRYING OUT LOUD, my very first Yorkie cost me $350.00 35 years ago. I guess puppy mills make it because the demand for the breed at cheap prices. There are some really sad, sad stories that are hard to read and I know with my limited experience my response would not be appreciated, so I limit what I respond to. keep up the good work. You don't have to sugar coat it for me.

[scrapindee]

Welcome to YT. This is a very old thread, you might get some responses and welcomes to the forum if you post in the general section.

[delicatepuzzle]

I am a newbie, and I wish that those veteran breeders were still willing to answer questions. I am not a breeder merely an owner. I would like to breed (many years from now). It stinks that irresponsible people ruin it for people like me who are just looking for information/opinions/expert advise, if not to use, just to have and pass along. Thank you for this post.

[tskinner]

I am a newbie and have come here to get information though I have not asked any questions, I have just cruised the posts so far.
what I have seen in the replies in most of the posts I have read so far has made me want to get my information by other means. I am afraid to ask a question here.

It seems, just by reading the replies, that if anyone inquires about breeding they get jumped on. Someone has to start somewhere. Would you rather pass on your knowledge to help someone (and the little furbabies they are going to bring into the world whether you help them or not) or would you rather they go out and do it anyway and screw everything up? I would think that by sharing your knowledge instead of attacking someone you aren't helping the person so much as the little puppy's that aren't being asked to be brought into this world.
It is going to happen whether you like it or not because if someone is here asking you more than likely aren't going to change their minds. So we can either help them or let them do it haphazardly and cause problems for these little pups and their parents.

JMO

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by tskinner

Someone has to start somewhere.

You are so right about that...and I have never seen anyone claim otherwise. However, there is a difference in "starting" after lots of research and mentoring and "starting" by jumping in blind and trying to get the all the info from an internet forum. It's the latter of the two scenarios that people have an issue with. Any which way you look at it, it's irresponsible and many have a low tolerance for it.
Generally speaking, if your outlook on breeding is to jump in haphazardly and let the chips fall where they may, then you are likely not going to find many answers or much support here. It's something I really like about YT--people are primarily concerned with the health and well being of this breed...the feelings of the breeder come second.

[crystalsmom]

Originally Posted by Ladyhawk

When I attended my first show it was for my education because I wanted to be a breeder. When I entered my first dog it was to have him evaluated before he was bred to make sure that I was on the right track. It was and is still not a luxury but wometihing that I consider a necessity if I am to be a responsible breeder. Breeding these dogs is a priviledge, one that must be earned through hard work and education. I don't feel that breeders should be in different leagues whether you have a champion to show or not. All breeders should be required to know the standard for their breed, the health issues that are dominant in their breed, and the temperment requirements or their breed. All breeders should be striving to improve upon these issues and continually educating themselves in an attempt to do so. Showing is to evaluate breeding stock and is a necessity if you want to breed with an educated eye, the insight of others more knowledgable than yourself is invaluable.

Wonderful post I would go one step further and wish you could only breed stock that has been tested. Dogs are being over bred to the point where it's hard to count how many have to be put to sleep. I may be a dreamer but I feel you should only be allowed to breed when you do it right and then watch in the yrs. ahead what healthy dogs we would have.
I feel if you don't have the money to show and get your dogs evaluated by a judge before you breed, you should not breed......now it wouldn't be perfect but it sure would help all of us who feel we are losing the breed and are worried about more and more health issues that keep creeping up . JMO

[tskinner]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

You are so right about that...and I have never seen anyone claim otherwise. However, there is a difference in "starting" after lots of research and mentoring and "starting" by jumping in blind and trying to get the all the info from an internet forum. It's the latter of the two scenarios that people have an issue with. Any which way you look at it, it's irresponsible and many have a low tolerance for it.
Generally speaking, if your outlook on breeding is to jump in haphazardly and let the chips fall where they may, then you are likely not going to find many answers or much support here. It's something I really like about YT--people are primarily concerned with the health and well being of this breed...the feelings of the breeder come second.

I would think though that coming here to get information would be more valuable than you get get from any books. Granted, there are also mentors, vets, dog shows, etc that one should contact as well but if I had decided to breed I would want to come here and talk with seasoned yorkie lovers. You have some valid points.

JMO

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by tskinner

I would think though that coming here to get information would be more valuable than you get get from any books. Granted, there are also mentors, vets, dog shows, etc that one should contact as well but if I had decided to breed I would want to come here and talk with seasoned yorkie lovers. You have some valid points.

Hmmm...I guess it depends on the information you get here and which books you are reading. Is the information you can get from members here valuable? Yes, certainly. Should it be used in lieu of working with someone experienced in person? No. The issue is not with people who come here to discuss matters in addition to what they are learning and researching outside of YT.