Beyond CM TO THOSE THAT DEFEND CM

[chattiesmom]

Originally Posted by YorkieMother

What I was trying to say is that if you do not believe me I be more then willing to pick you up at the airport and take you to meet her and our behaviour person and then you can see her first hand. I was not suggesting that you would hurt her... yeah that not happen and I know that.

JL

You have stated on more than one occasion that you are a trainer. Why would you need a "behavior person"?


Why in the world would I want to fly to Canada to meet some stranger that cannot and/or will not answer simple questions. Or even reveal the breed of dog that has such emotional problems from Cesar Milan? Please stay on topic -- we can't get anywhere when you keep changing the subject.

[chattiesmom]

Tell you what, it sounds like your stressed out dog needs a break. Why don't you send her to Georgia and let her have a farm vacation. She can learn to be a dog -- run and play, chase the horses and roll in and eat horse poop.

Dogs are a mirror to their owners. If a dog is whacked all too often it is because the owner is out of sorts.

[YorkieMother]

Originally Posted by chattiesmom

You have stated on more than one occasion that you are a trainer. Why would you need a "behavior person"?


Why in the world would I want to fly to Canada to meet some stranger that cannot and/or will not answer simple questions. Or even reveal the breed of dog that has such emotional problems from Cesar Milan? Please stay on topic -- we can't get anywhere when you keep changing the subject.

Well cause like all good trainers we are smart enough not to treat our own kids. You know the saying Physicain heal they self. Who siad that she is not the reason I became one. Or why I changed my methods or that I have not worked a long time in one area of training and crossed over to a differnt animal and a differnt way of doing things.

I am not changing the suject I stick to it well accept I need bed or she does.
I just offered to personally show you. Cause you are not getting it in words I was offering up a visual aid.

JL

[Akbritt]

ok...all else a side, Joy, what do you do as a method of correcting behavior, you must have one, because we can let our furbabies run crazy and at some point they do things they shouldn't and need some correction. How do you go about it?

[chattiesmom]

Originally Posted by YorkieMother

Well cause like all good trainers we are smart enough not to treat our own kids. You know the saying Physicain heal they self. Who siad that she is not the reason I became one. Or why I changed my methods or that I have not worked a long time in one area of training and crossed over to a differnt animal and a differnt way of doing things.

I am not changing the suject I stick to it well accept I need bed or she does.
I just offered to personally show you. Cause you are not getting it in words I was offering up a visual aid.

JL

So.... the $1,000,000 question. Are you responsible for your dog being damaged? If the answer to this question is YES then I can certainly understand why you would need outside help. If you are dealing with a routine training problem, then you should be able to handle it.

I understand exactly. You are an expert at avoiding answering direct questions. You have YET to answer the question about Cesar. You refuse to answer what breed of dog you own that is so damaged by Cesar.

BTW.... if I come to Canada, then I will find out what breed she is and can share that information

[YorkieMother]

Originally Posted by chattiesmom

Tell you what, it sounds like your stressed out dog needs a break. Why don't you send her to Georgia and let her have a farm vacation. She can learn to be a dog -- run and play, chase the horses and roll in and eat horse poop.

Dogs are a mirror to their owners. If a dog is whacked all too often it is because the owner is out of sorts.

Really you offering can you come get her...,, she can not fly alone.
She not be ok with anyone that smokes. drinks or other dogs. Can not manage things that move fast, will need her meds three times a day. Men are evil no I am not saying that, she does and kids need to be around. White dogs cause panic attacks. So do loud voices and metal sound but thunderstroms are great. But not so much firecrackers...yeah I do not know why one not hte other. Desial trucks are bad so are.....No she was soicalized...Wiring.....

And while that is a very over simplification yet again and I sure ceser said it it is not true.
Pat miller owns one very similar to my dog and is a sweet calm kind lady.
Emma Parson had ben..
Pam Dennsion too.
PAt McConnell owns one too.
Many of us take on the bad apples as we can manage then as we are not the mirror we are in the calm able to pull them out of hypre.

May want to read bringing light to shadow.....

JL

[Akbritt]

Originally Posted by Akbritt

ok...all else a side, Joy, what do you do as a method of correcting behavior, you must have one, because we can let our furbabies run crazy and at some point they do things they shouldn't and need some correction. How do you go about it?

are you going to answer my question?

[YorkieMother]

Originally Posted by chattiesmom

So.... the $1,000,000 question. Are you responsible for your dog being damaged? If the answer to this question is YES then I can certainly understand why you would need outside help. If you are dealing with a routine training problem, then you should be able to handle it.

I understand exactly. You are an expert at avoiding answering direct questions. You have YET to answer the question about Cesar. You refuse to answer what breed of dog you own that is so damaged by Cesar.

BTW.... if I come to Canada, then I will find out what breed she is and can share that information

No I did not cause her problems.
I have a note that hangs on my wall. From my behaviour helper that say you did not cause this it is not your fault. she was made this way give your self a break. Take time to yourself and get baby sitters for her. Get some good chocalate. What I failed at was I missed it, I was to close to see that which I love not coping but I know We had something out and I could not get it and I went for help. Same thing I do here I see or I feel something not running as it should.. You know thr car makes that funny sound you know something off but what. I saw and i thought had it but I did not so we went for eyes on. Tow pairs of eyes are better then one.

My girl is very well trained to a normal set of eyes she ok she comes like a shot, she sits, she heels, she stay.. ok sort of...everything a good dog should but that wiring coughs and just like my words get messed up out my fingers her brain spits something wrong and hold on.

Sure cause by then you will understand as you will see. You can not really know until you see and live it. My sister bless her thought I was over careful and so was a freind of mine. Both inside a week of watching this girl got it and are far more portective of her then me. They thought I was wrong and they know me. Sis saw her just about crash she caught the early stage shake..that was enough to scare her from ever scolding her again.
Yelling at anyone in the house stopped that day done. I was just visiting.
Instant crash say knock it off anywhere near my girl... Why???

JL

[YorkieMother]

Originally Posted by Akbritt

are you going to answer my question?

Humm what?? I was working through someone elses post. Remeber three to one and I have to spell check.... Help lost... redue??? Ok I hit quote and I got really lost. Wait maybe copy paste.

JL

[Akbritt]

Originally Posted by YorkieMother

Humm what?? I was working through someone elses post. Remeber three to one and I have to spell check.... Help lost... redue???

JL

well go back and read my post over...Im very interested in how you do your training methods.

But I'm about to fall asleep on my keyboard so Ill read it tomorrow.

Good night

[Chance]

Originally Posted by YorkieMother

I am going to make a wild suggestion... if you can turn and trust me it can be tough to do to wtch with the volume down cause you see things you miss with his voice in your ears. Turn the volume down. Watch just the dog. See what you see for yawns lip licks, eye blicks, head turns, shake offs, These are all dog speack for I to stressed please stop. No good learning will happen in that state of stress. Sometimes you can see the light is gone out of the dogs eyes he is not there any more he has learned what is call learned helplessness.

Why I suggest watching it is that it is the fastest way to learn body language I know of and it comes in handy if you are out for a walk and apporocahed by a dog you are going to know if you need to book it out of there or if you are ok.

JL

I don't have to do that, because I have already saw the signs you are
referring to. I to have seen him get on top of a dog and hold them down
to show he is in control, I just wonder what he will do when his shock
collars fell and the dog is aggressive enough that it gets a hold of him
good. I use the reward method with Chance, I get her used to doing
what I expect of her with treats and love then I taper off the treats
and just use praise and love as a reward. That works well for us. I
was Animal Planet with Victoria Stilwell. She and I like the praise and
love and treat method over physical control. I would rather Chance to
want to do tricks and obedience because she respects me and wants
to please me than because she is afraid not to, because of what
punishment she may get. But everyone is different, I believe all dogs
want to please there owners so treats and praise will work for all dogs,
the people just need to have more patience and understanding for the
dog. Remember you never know what has went on in that dogs life
before it was yours. I feel, and it is just my thought, that there is know
bad dog, just bad owners, and that goes for Pitbulls also.
There is really no need for everyone to get so upset over this thread,
it is your dogs, and you get to train them however you want. That is
what is so great about AMERICA, we are FREE, to do what we choose
to do.. There are far worse things going on in the world now to worry
about than C.M.

[chattiesmom]

I have come to the conclusion that you will not answer any question with a simple yes or no answer and then qualify that answer with an explaination. It is very difficult to understand your responses because you don't stay on topic. You were the one who started the thread and you were the one who indicated that Cesar somehow damaged your dog. It is reasonable that we would want to know the breed of dog we are talking about.

It is unfair to Cesar Milan, who is not here to defend himself, and it is very unfair to the entire YT membership.

She not be ok with anyone that smokes. drinks or other dogs

Am I to assume that this is the only dog that you own and it's a Yorkie (i.e. your user ID YorkieMother). What is the problem with smoking or drinking? That doesn't make much sense. I understand that secondhand smoke is unhealthy, but dogs don't -- does she have a breathing problem? And why would this dog give a flying flip if someone had a beer?

[YorkieMother]

I found it

"Originally Posted by Akbritt
ok...all else a side, JL, what do you do as a method of correcting behavior, you must have one, because we can let our furbabies run crazy and at some point they do things they shouldn't and need some correction. How do you go about it?"

I do not corrrect at all. I ignore bad behaviour as any notice of it even negative will reinforce it.
That which you feed with any action will repeat.
Now that said I will step in and redircet a problem.
As in if my dog goes after one of the others I will step in between using good dog speack and slipt them up.

If my dog goes to snag something she should not have I call her name and redirect her to what I want whic his feet on the ground or leave it and I reward the right action.

If she takes off which is rare as hens teeth I go the other way and make like a party. she comes nad I reward that come not htetaking off.

I catch them doing and being good and I do not set them up to fail.

JL

[YorkieMother]

Originally Posted by Chance

I don't have to do that, because I have already saw the signs you are
referring to. I to have seen him get on top of a dog and hold them down
to show he is in control, I just wonder what he will do when his shock
collars fell and the dog is aggressive enough that it gets a hold of him
good.
Already has it turned and bit its owner and he got sited for it by the AHA, being invesigated now for another incident and the report was not come in yet. This will be his third
I use the reward method with Chance, I get her used to doing
what I expect of her with treats and love then I taper off the treats
and just use praise and love as a reward. That works well for us. I
was Animal Planet with Victoria Stilwell. She and I like the praise and
love and treat method over physical control. I would rather Chance to
want to do tricks and obedience because she respects me and wants
to please me than because she is afraid not to, because of what
punishment she may get. But everyone is different, I believe all dogs
want to please there owners so treats and praise will work for all dogs,
the people just need to have more patience and understanding for the
dog. Remember you never know what has went on in that dogs life
before it was yours. I feel, and it is just my thought, that there is know
bad dog, just bad owners
I agree to a point except when we are dealing with genetic and chemiaclly induced aggression which CM does not deal with nor understands,
and that goes for Pitbulls also.
There is really no need for everyone to get so upset over this thread,
it is your dogs, and you get to train them however you want. That is
what is so great about AMERICA, we are FREE, to do what we choose
to do.. There are far worse things going on in the world now to worry
about than C.M
Ahh but I tend to beleive that all things even dogs are entiled to the same rights and freedom to live without fear. And that just cause they do not use our language does not make them less in need of being treated with respcet and kindness. There sure are other things going on but someone needs to look after the helpless ones too. I can not go off to war to old and crippled up.

Thanks I glad that I am not the only one that sees what is really there.
JL

[chattiesmom]

Originally Posted by Chance

I don't have to do that, because I have already saw the signs you are
referring to. I to have seen him get on top of a dog and hold them down
to show he is in control, I just wonder what he will do when his shock
collars fell and the dog is aggressive enough that it gets a hold of him
good. I use the reward method with Chance, I get her used to doing
what I expect of her with treats and love then I taper off the treats
and just use praise and love as a reward. That works well for us. I
was Animal Planet with Victoria Stilwell. She and I like the praise and
love and treat method over physical control. I would rather Chance to
want to do tricks and obedience because she respects me and wants
to please me than because she is afraid not to, because of what
punishment she may get. But everyone is different, I believe all dogs
want to please there owners so treats and praise will work for all dogs,
the people just need to have more patience and understanding for the
dog. Remember you never know what has went on in that dogs life
before it was yours. I feel, and it is just my thought, that there is know
bad dog, just bad owners, and that goes for Pitbulls also.
There is really no need for everyone to get so upset over this thread,
it is your dogs, and you get to train them however you want. That is
what is so great about AMERICA, we are FREE, to do what we choose
to do.. There are far worse things going on in the world now to worry
about than C.M.

First of all, I respect your right to your views. and you are right about the freedoms we enjoy as Americans.

Unfortunately the television shows are not the sum total of what Cesar Milan does. Way too many people only see a small piece of the puzzle and make a judgement. Putting things into perspective, Cesar Milan deals with problem dogs. Most of our Yorkies have problems but aren't problem dogs. I agree 100% with using positive training methods, treats, bribery. Works with human kids as well.

If we keep an open mind we can learn from Cesar, Pat, Victoria, Karen, and each other. We all have invaluable knowledge -- what works for me may or may not work for you. My foremost training rules I learned from a horse trainer:

1) I cannot get hurt
2) My horse/dog/whatever cannot get hurt
3) My horse/dog/whatever must be more relaxed at the end of the training session than before we started
4) Pain is a deterrent to learning