Beyond CM TO THOSE THAT DEFEND CM

[chattiesmom]

This girl will drop at full run at a trigger on a down on a good day and it happened with practice on an alpha roll... you roll her she will fight till one of us is dead....

I don't understand the above quote if alpha rolls never happened.

Cesar's methods may not work for you, but many of them do work for a multitude of dog owners. It is just as inappropriate for you to say that ALL of Cesar's methods are wrong as it would be for me to say that all Pitt Bulls are vicious. I had a recent experience with two pitt bulls trying to attack my horses, but I blame stupid owners, not the dogs.

[YorkieMother]

Originally Posted by chattiesmom

I don't understand the above quote if alpha rolls never happened.

Cesar's methods may not work for you, but many of them do work for a multitude of dog owners. It is just as inappropriate for you to say that ALL of Cesar's methods are wrong as it would be for me to say that all Pitt Bulls are vicious. I had a recent experience with two pitt bulls trying to attack my horses, but I blame stupid owners, not the dogs.

Yup got it.. SO trigger she see, she runs to it I can say down and she will drop to a down. now it is out of contexted.

Ok there is a differnts from that which is an out of control dog and yes what happened to you is out of control and that is owner based...oh I never use breeds cause you see put you see bad breed bad dog...why I am not using breed.

Now when you are dealing with what is truly a red zone dog...it not a out of control dog those the I can get her to stop on a down on good days. A true red zone one if we must use that term is one who is like my girl wiring gone and you do not know what will pop out. It takes great managment skills to not set her up ti fail.

Oh multi dog family here....and we use Pat McConnells stuff..
Prime example...Two breeding females.... Cm says let them figt it out...owner lets dog fight it out ..we now have two very big very expenive show dogs fighting it out about to wreak show careers...yeah.... I do not think it should have happened but you know CM said CM is right.. One dog close to loosing eye and stitches,,yeah way smart....

Me one dog in one dog out if in the same are you there you split you teach good dog speak skills.

JL

[YorkieMother]

Ok I need to pee and I need four hours ofd sleep got13 mouths to handle inthe morning. Wait it is.

JL

[chattiesmom]

Joy, there are many very knowledgeable people here at YorkieTalk that have handled many breeds and many problems. You aren't the only one who has dealt with serious dog issues. But you still haven't given any first hand and/or personal reasons that you are so determined to defame Cesar Milan. All you have been willing to do is to site why others don't like him.

If you would treat your fellow YTers with courtesy and respect you would be treated in kind. Accept the fact that many of us (me included) think that Cesar has some good ideas --I don't care if he invented them or not, he is presenting them in an entertaining and understandable way.


I can't speak for his television show because I have never ever seen an entire episode. I don't watch TV -- don't own one. I do understand that if what he presented wasn't interesting people wouldn't watch. I don't deny the man his right to make a living, any more than I would deny you that same right.

Have you read Cesar's Way? If you haven't, then you should, with an open mind. That doesn't mean that you have to agree with him, but perhaps you would have a better understanding of where he is coming from.

[chattiesmom]

Don't blame Cesar for the "letting them fight it out" 'cause that is a common idiotic idea. I've been there, done that with two breeding bitches who are now kept separated 24/7. This was before I had ever heard of Cesar Milan so I can't blame him. I blame myself for my ignorance and I violated my own training rules because all three of us got hurt and the girls were NOT relaxed after I was able to break up the fight.

[YorkieMother]

Originally Posted by chattiesmom

Don't blame Cesar for the "letting them fight it out" 'cause that is a common idiotic idea. I've been there, done that with two breeding bitches who are now kept separated 24/7. This was before I had ever heard of Cesar Milan so I can't blame him. I blame myself for my ignorance and I violated my own training rules because all three of us got hurt and the girls were NOT relaxed after I was able to break up the fight.

It is a common idiotic belief promoted by CM and it was quoted by the owner as such that makes it his fault. He teaches it .It makes him resposible for the fall out. No wait he off makeing money no fall out...get it. If people use what he says he is reposible...teach gentle no one get hurt.
That is my bug bare right there why teach rough when gentle works and no dogs get hurt....casue it not as fast or as splash no does it sell.
Wrong science again wrongly appiled hurts as long as it a dog it ok.. I am saying no it is not. If it breaths and lives and thinks why is it ok to hurt it mentally or phsycally to train it.
And profitting from it makes him no better then a puppymiller.

JL

[YorkieMother]

Originally Posted by chattiesmom

Joy, there are many very knowledgeable people here at YorkieTalk that have handled many breeds and many problems. You aren't the only one who has dealt with serious dog issues. But you still haven't given any first hand and/or personal reasons that you are so determined to defame Cesar Milan. All you have been willing to do is to site why others don't like him.

If you would treat your fellow YTers with courtesy and respect you would be treated in kind. Accept the fact that many of us (me included) think that Cesar has some good ideas --I don't care if he invented them or not, he is presenting them in an entertaining and understandable way.


I can't speak for his television show because I have never ever seen an entire episode. I don't watch TV -- don't own one. I do understand that if what he presented wasn't interesting people wouldn't watch. I don't deny the man his right to make a living, any more than I would deny you that same right.

Have you read Cesar's Way? If you haven't, then you should, with an open mind. That doesn't mean that you have to agree with him, but perhaps you would have a better understanding of where he is coming from.

I did not through this as best I could not take it personal where others did.
If my mind was not open as of right now we be looking at I say three dead dogs. You have asumed that whaat I have learned is soully from my current dogs but those in the past taught me too.
When someone goes out and does a half baked job on studing dogs in a garbage dump when it been done and right.. I am not following that.
Dogs are not in the true wild, pack animals there is not enough food to go around .What he saw is resource gaurding that is not pack behaviour.
Why would I spend money on something that I feel is abusive and feed someone. Again that be like going to a puppy store and buying a puppy and not getting the mom and dad out tooo. I have not doubt that there are oters here that have dogs and work with them and get awy with some of his stuff.

What I am saying is we do not know until it is to late, why go there at all.
When there are viable human options not using adversives.
Epecailly when he does not even use the adversives in the right manner and the most effective way.
I like science as I like reality and I rather train with than fancy.

JL

[chattiesmom]

Originally Posted by YorkieMother

It is a common idiotic belief promoted by CM and it was quoted by the owner as such that makes it his fault. He teaches it .It makes him resposible for the fall out. No wait he off makeing money no fall out...get it. If people use what he says he is reposible...teach gentle no one get hurt.
That is my bug bare right there why teach rough when gentle works and no dogs get hurt....casue it not as fast or as splash no does it sell.
Wrong science again wrongly appiled hurts as long as it a dog it ok.. I am saying no it is not. If it breaths and lives and thinks why is it ok to hurt it mentally or phsycally to train it.
And profitting from it makes him no better then a puppymiller.

JL

Your theory is just as wrong as me saying that the Jack Daniels Distillery is responsible for alcoholics. We all make choices, live with them and then we need to be accountable for the results of those decisions. Playing the blame game isn't acceptable when we are dealing with living beings. Right, Wrong or Indifferent. Cesar didn't force the previous owner to do something stupid. The owner did that on his own.

If we would all just quit trying to blame someone else for our problems and spend that effort on trying to find a solution a lot more problems could be solved. You cannot, do not, and will never know how many dogs are helped and/or hurt by Cesar or ANY trainer. Any training method can be harmful. I cannot imagine not disciplining a dog, horse, child, etc., for improper behavior -- especially behavior that is dangerous. That is blatant abuse - I have seen the results of indifference working in an elementary school. It is heart breaking.

[chattiesmom]

Originally Posted by YorkieMother

I did not through this as best I could not take it personal where others did.
If my mind was not open as of right now we be looking at I say three dead dogs. You have asumed that whaat I have learned is soully from my current dogs but those in the past taught me too.
When someone goes out and does a half baked job on studing dogs in a garbage dump when it been done and right.. I am not following that.
Dogs are not in the true wild, pack animals there is not enough food to go around .What he saw is resource gaurding that is not pack behaviour.
Why would I spend money on something that I feel is abusive and feed someone. Again that be like going to a puppy store and buying a puppy and not getting the mom and dad out tooo. I have not doubt that there are oters here that have dogs and work with them and get awy with some of his stuff.

What I am saying is we do not know until it is to late, why go there at all.
When there are viable human options not using adversives.
Epecailly when he does not even use the adversives in the right manner and the most effective way.
I like science as I like reality and I rather train with than fancy.

JL

What exactly do you mean by science? You talk of mushy brains and zoning out. Those aren't particularly scientific terms. You can't have it both ways, either you are one of us regular folk, or you use some mystery science. I have never ever heard of a scientist who couldn't be specific and give details. So please explain what you mean by science. Specifically as in...
1)
2)
3)

[YorkieMother]

CM does not allow the AHA in to his site.
Every other show using animals allows them.
Why does he not?
If he has not a thing to hide, if he thinks he is so great, why is he hiding and what is he afraid of?
Goes both ways you want me to tell all but you let him hide.
Now do you get why I not telling all.
He wants to hide and cover up.
Let him actually lay it all and I mean all if it on the table.(I already have it here posted from a long time ago.)
Also all the cutting room floor stuff too.
All of it in the right order it happened.
Those owners not allowed to talk do to gag orders if his metod failed.
Let AHA in to watch and other papered trainers.

He can not. He is afraid and fear is not a place to live.

JL

[YorkieMother]

Originally Posted by chattiesmom

What exactly do you mean by science? You talk of mushy brains and zoning out. Those aren't particularly scientific terms. You can't have it both ways, either you are one of us regular folk, or you use some mystery science. I have never ever heard of a scientist who couldn't be specific and give details. So please explain what you mean by science. Specifically as in...
1)
2)
3)

Ok I have in other threads and you get upset with me for quoting but for me to pull out them darn big words and spell them right is not easy.
Again it be easy to do it by phone and explain.
What part of chemiaclly imbalacne and bi polar is not scince.
Dogs are not wolf nor are they pack animals...science
Using advesrives increases the likley hood of aggressive acts back.
Flooding is not inticated in the use of dogs with fear aggression.
Most aggression is fear based. not dominace based
need more. Karen overall , dodson stuff, coppinger stuff, dunbar stuff, pryor, skinner.
Science
He does not use correct science at all or it is wrongly applied. fantasy

JL

[chattiesmom]

Originally Posted by YorkieMother

CM does not allow the AHA in to his site.
Every other show using animals allows them.
Why does he not?
If he has not a thing to hide, if he thinks he is so great, why is he hiding and what is he afraid of?
Goes both ways you want me to tell all but you let him hide.
Now do you get why I not telling all.
He wants to hide and cover up.
Let him actually lay it all and I mean all if it on the table.(I already have it here posted from a long time ago.)
Also all the cutting room floor stuff too.
All of it in the right order it happened.
Those owners not allowed to talk do to gag orders if his metod failed.
Let AHA in to watch and other papered trainers.

He can not. He is afraid and fear is not a place to live.

JL

Cesar Milan is NOT a member of YT and he is NOT defaming you or your training methods. You have yet to give any specifics only generalities. You have no idea about what is on his cutting room floor or the right order or any of the things that you allude to. This is nothing more than rumors and heresay. What PERSONAL first hand knowledge do you have of him and his operations?

[chattiesmom]

Originally Posted by YorkieMother

Ok I have in other threads and you get upset with me for quoting but for me to pull out them darn big words and spell them right is not easy.
Again it be easy to do it by phone and explain.
What part of chemiaclly imbalacne and bi polar is not scince.
Dogs are not wolf nor are they pack animals...science
Using advesrives increases the likley hood of aggressive acts back.
Flooding is not inticated in the use of dogs with fear aggression.
Most aggression is fear based. not dominace based
need more. Karen overall , dodson stuff, coppinger stuff, dunbar stuff, pryor, skinner.
Science
He does not use correct science at all or it is wrongly applied. fantasy

JL

You are talking in circles again. I can handle big words and if I don't know a definition, I can use a dictionary if you can spell the words correctly. Dogs ARE pack animals -- if you have more than one and observe their interactions you will clearly see that there is an alpha and subordinates. Prove your statement -- most aggression is fear based..... if you take every single aggressive dog in the world can you prove that most of the aggression is fear based? There is a very real problem in being credible when you throw out opinion as fact.

You still don't get it -- what needs to happen is that you refrain from starting threads with the specific purpose of defaming specific individuals.

[YorkieMother]

Originally Posted by chattiesmom

Cesar Milan is NOT a member of YT and he is NOT defaming you or your training methods. You have yet to give any specifics only generalities. You have no idea about what is on his cutting room floor or the right order or any of the things that you allude to. This is nothing more than rumors and heresay. What PERSONAL first hand knowledge do you have of him and his operations?

It is not defaming when it is public knowledge. That it is not your knowledge is not my fault. Go read what I have posted and the link at the start of this thread. AHA is public so are the rulings against him.

There is no alluding. it right there, all there you just do not want to see it.
Just like people for the longest time would not see millers.

What personal first hand knowledge do you have that he does not?
Have you ever trained with him?
Do you know anyone that was?
Do you know anyone that works with the dogs now he has?
Have you heard first hand accounts of events around his training?

JL

[YorkieMother]

Originally Posted by chattiesmom

You are talking in circles again. I can handle big words and if I don't know a definition, I can use a dictionary if you can spell the words correctly. Dogs ARE pack animals -- if you have more than one and observe their interactions you will clearly see that there is an alpha and subordinates. Prove your statement -- most aggression is fear based..... if you take every single aggressive dog in the world can you prove that most of the aggression is fear based? There is a very real problem in being credible when you throw out opinion as fact.

You still don't get it -- what needs to happen is that you refrain from starting threads with the specific purpose of defaming specific individuals.

Defaming who... him...again public knowledge. go look.

There you go I can not spell then.
And dogs are not pack animals -coppinger... I going to say red you are going to say blue and you are not going to look past what you think you already know
There is a fliud system at work in dogs and in most human intreaction. I have posted this before. I posted the science behind it and get told that I need to not quote..how would you like me to prove it. cause it works like you do for ceser.... it does not always work.. the other way does.
And I am accused of not having an open mind.

JL