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Old 09-11-2009, 03:07 PM   #1
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Default Beyond CM TO THOSE THAT DEFEND CM

This was passed onto me and I thought I would share.
I get repeatedly told I am the only one that thinks as I do.
Well it is looking more and more like I am not as I always know.
Those that defend him are less and less.

JL

BEYOND CESAR MILLAN - Home


TO THOSE THAT DEFEND CM

Those who are defending Cesar are using the same tired and debunked arguments that have been thrown at critics for years.

1. “You’ve obviously never watched the show.” Many of the professionals who have spoken out against the methods on the show have watched and can site multiple episodes.

2. “You’re just jealous of his success.” If that were the case, wouldn’t we just call ourselves ‘dog whisperers’ like so many so-called trainers who are attempting to profit from the success of the show?

3. “You would just have those dogs rehomed or euthanized.” Considering the vast library of continuing education seminars, books and DVD’s by professional trainers outlining specific techniques to modify aggressive behavior without the use of pain, fear or force, this claim is also untrue.

4. “It worked great on my dog.” In research, this is called n=1, meaning the research is based on the reaction of one subject. If a medication didn’t cause a serious problem for 1/100 people, would you trust it?

5. “He works with dogs other trainers won’t/you don’t have experience working with ‘red zone’ dogs”. False and false. Aggression is not a mystery – because of the research done both in labs and in the field, we understand the most common causes of aggression. Aggressive behavior is normal, not ‘red zone’ and it is rarely the result of dominance (some old veterinary texts say otherwise, but those were published before the resarch of the last decade).

Yes, we watch the show. Yes, we work with serious aggression cases. No, we don’t immediately recommend euthanasia because a dog is aggressive. No, we’re not jealous or promoting our own agenda (also known as scientifically proven methods).

What many of the posters on this thread fail to realize is that the vast majority of trainers speaking out against Cesar’s methods have extensive experience using those methods 10, 20 or even 30 years ago and have seen first-hand the problems they can create.

There is a whole world of canine behavior available to those who want to learn more than the over-simplified explanations of dominance and submission. If you are willing to put aside your beliefs as I was 10 years ago and be open to learning more, think of the good you can do for your dog and others.

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Veterinary Behaviorists Take a Stand Against Cesar Millan
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Old 09-11-2009, 03:10 PM   #2
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I think all that is important is what works for one person might not work for another. I'm sure this thread will become quite heated and involved- but it doesn't need to be. Do what works for you and forget about what everyone else says.
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Old 09-11-2009, 03:18 PM   #3
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I think all that is important is what works for one person might not work for another. I'm sure this thread will become quite heated and involved- but it doesn't need to be. Do what works for you and forget about what everyone else says.
Go back and read the whole thread really read it you are falling right into the trap eveyone else does.
It works for me. Ok you are a one off.

4. “It worked great on my dog.” In research, this is called n=1, meaning the research is based on the reaction of one subject. If a medication didn’t cause a serious problem for 1/100 people, would you trust it?

What the pros are seeing is that it does not work and it wreaks dogs and they see it watching the shows.

No need for this thread to get heated and if it does it will be on the side that continues in the face of facts research and people far more qualified getting upset as they do not have the facts nor the science to back them up.

JL
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Old 09-11-2009, 03:19 PM   #4
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Go back and read the whole thread really read it you are falling right into the trap eveyone else does.
It works for me. Ok you are a one off.

4. “It worked great on my dog.” In research, this is called n=1, meaning the research is based on the reaction of one subject. If a medication didn’t cause a serious problem for 1/100 people, would you trust it?

What the pros are seeing is that it does not work and it wreaks dogs and they see it watching the shows.

No need for this thread to get heated and if it does it will be on the side that continues in the face of facts research and people far more qualified getting upset as they do not have the facts nor the science to back them up.

JL
I can read- thanks. My dog is not a mess- just much better behaved. It is clear you don't like him or whatever- but I'll stick with what works for me- thanks.
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Old 09-11-2009, 03:27 PM   #5
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I think all that is important is what works for one person might not work for another. I'm sure this thread will become quite heated and involved- but it doesn't need to be. Do what works for you and forget about what everyone else says.

Agreed - this goes for everything, dog or human related. What works for me might not work for you.
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Old 09-11-2009, 03:28 PM   #6
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ok ease up.. first off it looks like the original poster just passed the info although they appear to agree with it.

I however agree with Marci.... what works for one might not work for the other. Wherein CM's approach and perceptions work great for some, others may not find it useful or agree with it. That's how it is with most things. We all have our own opinions on foods, trainings, etc.

When posting something controversial you have to know that and respect others opinions even if you don't agree with them yourselves. Don't jump on someone for voicing their opinion. If you can't be open then don't post.
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Old 09-11-2009, 03:29 PM   #7
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I can read- thanks. My dog is not a mess- just much better behaved. It is clear you don't like him or whatever- but I'll stick with what works for me- thanks.
No I like him as a human just fine but as a dog what ever he thinks he is, he is a major problem to those that actually do train and not force one to do as dictated.
Ok so it works now but when it stops working or you try it on your next dog and the wheels fall off then what? I rather have a dog do something for me cause he likes to then he must cause I say so or I will scold, poke,. roll, choke, zap, can shake, or what ever other negative interaction one can do to get your dog to do it or else. Dogs can say no and still not take over the world.

He is a one hit wonder- domination is just that. When many work from many different angles do get the job done, not one of those is domination.

JL
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Old 09-11-2009, 03:37 PM   #8
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No I like him as a human just fine but as a dog what ever he thinks he is, he is a major problem to those that actually do train and not force one to do as dictated.
Ok so it works now but when it stops working or you try it on your next dog and the wheels fall off then what? I rather have a dog do something for me cause he likes to then he must cause I say so or I will scold, poke,. roll, choke, zap, can shake, or what ever other negative interaction one can do to get your dog to do it or else. Dogs can say no and still not take over the world.

He is a one hit wonder- domination is just that. When many work from many different angles do get the job done, not one of those is domination.

JL
Well I have yet to scold, poke, roll, choke (Havent' read that in any of his books), zap (haven't read that in any books either) or can shake with Layla. She respects me and knows I am in charge- end of story. I dont' want to fight with you- i just dont' feel you are being accurate at all.
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Old 09-11-2009, 03:48 PM   #9
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Ok... I just wanted to ask... does it really matter? Who cares whether his teachings work or not. If you don't like him, turn the channel, don't buy the book. If you like... vice versa.

To me its kind of the same as do you like your toilet paper under or over... I could care less personally. I do what works for me....under.
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Old 09-11-2009, 03:50 PM   #10
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the horse is dead already stop beating it!

people who like CM will like him, and the people who don't will always find something wrong with him, I'm sure if i tried hard I could find something wrong with any dog trainer.

You want to know what works? take bits and pieces from different trainers and find what works for your dog. Owners should be more hands on about training their dogs then to hire someone for a quick fix anyways.

Unless an out break of dead dogs show up in the hands of CM then I don't think he is going any where.
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Old 09-11-2009, 03:51 PM   #11
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Ok... I just wanted to ask... does it really matter? Who cares whether his teachings work or not. If you don't like him, turn the channel, don't buy the book. If you like... vice versa.

To me its kind of the same as do you like your toilet paper under or over... I could care less personally. I do what works for me....under.
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Old 09-11-2009, 03:52 PM   #12
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the horse is dead already stop beating it!

people who like CM will like him, and the people who don't will always find something wrong with him, I'm sure if i tried hard I could find something wrong with any dog trainer.

You want to know what works? take bits and pieces from different trainers and find what works for your dog. Owners should be more hands on about training their dogs then to hire someone for a quick fix anyways.

Unless an out break of dead dogs show up in the hands of CM then I don't think he is going any where.
you hit the nail on the head.
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Old 09-11-2009, 03:55 PM   #13
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ok ease up.. first off it looks like the original poster just passed the info although they appear to agree with it.

I however agree with Marci.... what works for one might not work for the other. Wherein CM's approach and perceptions work great for some, others may not find it useful or agree with it. That's how it is with most things. We all have our own opinions on foods, trainings, etc.

When posting something controversial you have to know that and respect others opinions even if you don't agree with them yourselves. Don't jump on someone for voicing their opinion. If you can't be open then don't post.

this isn't the only post the OP has posted to stir up members about CM. and the OP knows how members will respond.
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Old 09-11-2009, 03:57 PM   #14
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this isn't the only post the OP has posted to stir up members about CM. and the OP knows how members will respond.
man i hate trolls. Thanks for the info- going to shut up now and stay away from all threads like this
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Old 09-11-2009, 04:02 PM   #15
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Marcella, I agree with you 100%. Most of us are intelligent to determine a training method that will work for us individually.

Training is like kibble -- it is the responsibility of each and every dog owner to determine what is best for them. We all need to believe in ourselves and NOT rely on what others think of a particular trainer. Unfortunately we don't "know" the people posting the pros and cons of Cesar Milan, so it would be in our dog's best interest for each of us to personally seek out the trainer(s) to follow and methods to use.
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