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Old 08-17-2009, 02:04 PM   #1
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Default It's official, Kaji has seperation anxiety

I had a feeling he was stressed when I would leave, but now I know for sure. I have bought a kong to use and plan on giving him his breakfast in it (kibble with yogurt frozed near the opening to really give him something to work for) when I have to leave in the morning. I had no idea he could be so messy.
His worst was last Friday. I had to leave twice that day, once for a 9:30 appointment, and the second time for a 12:30 appointment. I left at 9 am and came back at 11 and he seemed fine. He had his onesie on so as not to lick his neuter area. I left him in his expen with food, water, his bed and all his things and a fan on because the loft can get warm. When I came back he was happy to see me and only had one little spot of pee on his onesie. No biggie! I washed it, dried it, had lunch accompanied by my two furry friends, Kaji and my roommate's dog Danger, and then got ready to head out to my last appointment. I thought if I left him with Danger, his furry friend, maybe he would be ok, and not miss me as much. So I dressed him up in his belly band and onesie, so neither dog licks his neuter area, closed off areas of the house they could potentially get in trouble in and went on my way. My appointment was incredibly short and I was back in about 40 mins. I walk in to smell poo and pee. Kaji had pooed in his onesie (something I thought he would never do), and he had drenched the belly band (it was so much pee the pad I put in there couldn't contain it all) and his onesie. He was happy to see me but scared and confused at the same time. I had no choice but to bathe him since he smelled horrible.
On my way to my parents house, he was quiet and acting normal, when he decided to sit on my lap. I usually don't allow it but I did that day. Two seconds later, he peed on my lap. I thought there would be no way he would pee any more since he had just soaked the pad, belly band and onesie so I thought I was safe until his afternoon walk after all the goodies my dad would give him. That was a nasty surprise.
I dropped off my pee drenched puppy at my parents and when off to buy doggie shampoo (the pee got all over the place), nature's miracle to clean my car seat, and a kong which I was sure I was going to need eventually. I also called the vet and asked her if she thought it was a possibilitySince then he has had 3 more accidents inside. One in the kitchen on Friday after I stepped out to grab something from the car, another Saturday morning, and the last one today after I stepped out again.
Sorry for the rant but I really needed to get it off my chest. Any advice?
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Old 08-17-2009, 02:10 PM   #2
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Oh! And all weekend I have been trying to get Kaji to associate the Kong with good things. I have been giving him his favorite treat, pieces of cheese. He's getting the hang of it.
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Old 08-17-2009, 03:15 PM   #3
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Advice please!
I'd like to know what I should be doing, if I'm going about it the wrong way or something. Please?
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Old 08-17-2009, 03:36 PM   #4
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Joey had a few set backs after neutering, and I've read this is really common. I'm not sure why you think this is separation anxiety. I had a rehomed dog with it, and he literally tore the house or car apart if he was left alone, he wasn't attached to any one person, you could hire a babysitter and he was fine, but leaving him alone was terrifying for him. You say he seem fine when you get home, and you are thinking it's anxiety because of the pooping or peeing, but I think this could be related to the neutering. To test for anxiety, you can film your dog while you are away. My suggestion is to wait a week and see if he improves on his own with his potty habits, he may associate the car ride with the trip the vet.
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Old 08-17-2009, 03:47 PM   #5
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Joey had a few set backs after neutering, and I've read this is really common. I'm not sure why you think this is separation anxiety. I had a rehomed dog with it, and he literally tore the house or car apart if he was left alone, he wasn't attached to any one person, you could hire a babysitter and he was fine, but leaving him alone was terrifying for him. You say he seem fine when you get home, and you are thinking it's anxiety because of the pooping or peeing, but I think this could be related to the neutering. To test for anxiety, you can film your dog while you are away. My suggestion is to wait a week and see if he improves on his own with his potty habits, he may associate the car ride with the trip the vet.
I have left him home with a full house. My mom, dad, and two brothers. They tell me he's not himself if I'm out. He paces, smells my things and cries when he does. He's only happy when he's following me from room to room and sleeping at my feet. I should have included this in my original post.
And the only other person he's ok with is my mom because apparently she sounds like me. He hears her voice coming from another room and runs over to see if it's me. At least that's what I've been told.
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Old 08-17-2009, 05:36 PM   #6
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I have left him home with a full house. My mom, dad, and two brothers. They tell me he's not himself if I'm out. He paces, smells my things and cries when he does. He's only happy when he's following me from room to room and sleeping at my feet. I should have included this in my original post.
And the only other person he's ok with is my mom because apparently she sounds like me. He hears her voice coming from another room and runs over to see if it's me. At least that's what I've been told.
Joey acts this way when I'm gone too, and I've read that some Yorkies develop more of a relationship with certain people and get overly attached, but I'm home most of the time, so this is normal. He use to follow me from room to room, but at age three, he's become more lackadaisical about this, and offers me more freedom. A couple of things that have helped me, is that I will go outside or to the garage for short periods, and return, and he doesn't even seem to notice anymore. Also, and this next part is really hard to do, when you get home, don't act excited. I ignore Joey for the first 5 minutes or until he settles down, and then I give him a treat or pet him. If I don't do this, he will do that choking kind of sound where it sounds like he can't breathe. This was extremely hard for me to do, but it works, and after three times of consistently, ignoring him, the last time I came into the house, he was pretty good, and settled down within a minute. For some reason, if you act excited to see them when you get home, it increases their anxiety when you are away. If you do a google, on anxiety separation, you will see these tips, and many others depending on how severe the anxiety is, but nothing you have said has made me feel like this is all that unusual. I call Joey my little Klingon!
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Old 08-17-2009, 09:25 PM   #7
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I thought it was unusual because he came from a home with lots of other doggies, and for him to make such a huge mess of himself when he wasn't completely alone has me baffled. He's comfortable around Danger when I'm there, I did have to teach him to have a little self control (through repitition) but otherwise these two get along nicely. I've heard him cry and whimper when I leave him alone upstairs, but what I try to do is not reappear until I hear he is quiet and I make him sit nicely for me before I let him out of his expen. He knows now that he has to sit and wait to be invited out before he can roam around.
He's 1 yr old, so he's not a puppy that needs to much training. He just had a problem with leg lifting, or marking, in a house that smells like another dog. He's so smart too... in a few days he understood no leg lifting inside, because I watched him closely and corrected him (clap to interrupt followed by a "NO") everytime I saw him try to lift his leg. But at home with my parents, there are no other dogs so he never even tried to lift his leg. This was the weekend immediately after his neuter. He peed and pooed nicely when I took him outside just like a pro.
I think what has me confused is the part where he seems fine when alone yet when he was with the other dog he was a mess. Plus, when I called the vet to check in case he had a UTI, she said it definitely sounded like seperation anxiety.
Should I not leave him alone with the other dog? Was the other dog's company more harm than good? Am I being a neurotic new mom?
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Old 08-18-2009, 08:42 AM   #8
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I thought it was unusual because he came from a home with lots of other doggies, and for him to make such a huge mess of himself when he wasn't completely alone has me baffled. He's comfortable around Danger when I'm there, I did have to teach him to have a little self control (through repitition) but otherwise these two get along nicely. I've heard him cry and whimper when I leave him alone upstairs, but what I try to do is not reappear until I hear he is quiet and I make him sit nicely for me before I let him out of his expen. He knows now that he has to sit and wait to be invited out before he can roam around.
He's 1 yr old, so he's not a puppy that needs to much training. He just had a problem with leg lifting, or marking, in a house that smells like another dog. He's so smart too... in a few days he understood no leg lifting inside, because I watched him closely and corrected him (clap to interrupt followed by a "NO") everytime I saw him try to lift his leg. But at home with my parents, there are no other dogs so he never even tried to lift his leg. This was the weekend immediately after his neuter. He peed and pooed nicely when I took him outside just like a pro.
I think what has me confused is the part where he seems fine when alone yet when he was with the other dog he was a mess. Plus, when I called the vet to check in case he had a UTI, she said it definitely sounded like seperation anxiety.
Should I not leave him alone with the other dog? Was the other dog's company more harm than good? Am I being a neurotic new mom?
Lol, you are being a normal concerned mom, and most moms worry about everything. I think when your vet used the term "separation anxiety", she wasn't really using it in the clinical sense, as in the dog needs therapy, but more like, " I don't believe your dog has a UTI, and is just experiencing a little anxiety from being separated." By the way, UTI's are common in females after spaying; I don't think they affect males after neutering, because the bladder isn't close to the testicles. However, nearly all dogs experience setbacks in house breaking after neutering/spaying. It sounds like you are doing everything great. He's older and it might take him a little more time to get use to your routine. I personally think it's great if you can have him around other dogs, it takes time for them to get use to it, but I really think it's good for them.
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Old 08-18-2009, 02:21 PM   #9
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How's this for my new modified plan. I leave him with his Kong filled with his favorite treat, small pieces of cheese (it really isn't a lot) before I head out so he's a bit distracted. Then when I come back I wait for at least one whole minute of silence before heading upstairs (it's super hard not to go up there and pick him up ) then 5 mins of ignoring him once I'm physically in the same room as he is. What do you think Nancy, good plan?

Oh, and I think the vet's exact words were "he was mad at you so he peed and pooed himself, then peed on you in the car."
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Old 08-18-2009, 03:00 PM   #10
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How's this for my new modified plan. I leave him with his Kong filled with his favorite treat, small pieces of cheese (it really isn't a lot) before I head out so he's a bit distracted. Then when I come back I wait for at least one whole minute of silence before heading upstairs (it's super hard not to go up there and pick him up ) then 5 mins of ignoring him once I'm physically in the same room as he is. What do you think Nancy, good plan?

Oh, and I think the vet's exact words were "he was mad at you so he peed and pooed himself, then peed on you in the car."
Oh dear, I hate it when vets give advice like that, if people think their dogs are mad at them they react in one of two ways, they get mad, or they try to make it up to their dog, and spoil them, neither is good for the dog.

Your new plan sounds good, but I want to remind you than when you get home, you don't have to wait 5 minutes, it will seem like a long time to you, and may be five minutes, but it's probably less. I'm telling you its agonizing, and you will feel like the worse mommy in the world, but keep telling yourself it is for his own good, and he'll be less anxious when you are gone. I usually go in the kitchen a fuss around, and when he stops jumping up on me and settles down, that's when I give him the attention, so you are rewarding his calm behavior with your attention. When they jump up, don't forget to turn your back to them. I don't even say no, I think that might cause him to bark, and get more anxious. If your are good at this, he might settle down within 30 seconds, and you can pet or give a treat, but don't fuss too much and, no eye contact until he composes himself.
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Old 08-18-2009, 03:13 PM   #11
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Not sure that is sepration anxiety but rather a dog that is over bonded and needs some self confidence.
Rather think that working an appropriate desenstization program for sepratation anxiety be a good idea.
There are a few good ones if you google search.
Plus you need to look into him getting comfortable in short amounts of time with other humans...no easy but it will help.

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Old 08-18-2009, 03:22 PM   #12
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My reasoning behing the plan is when he is upstairs in the loft he can hear everything that's going on downstairs, like if I'm talking to Danger cuddling him or whatever. That usually drives Kaji mad because he can hear me but he can't see me. That's why I wait a minute before going upstairs. Once he is no longer pacing, breathing heavy, or yipping I calmly walk upstairs and go about my business. Once he sees me he usually jumps up and down in his pen, that's why I incorporated the 5 min of no eye contact or going up to him to cuddle. All that jumping, pacing, and yipping really tires him out.

YT Pic 3.jpg

Sorry for the play by play, but I want to make sure I am doing right by my boy. You're a great asset Nancy I really thank you for the help.
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Old 08-18-2009, 03:27 PM   #13
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Not sure that is sepration anxiety but rather a dog that is over bonded and needs some self confidence.
Rather think that working an appropriate desenstization program for sepratation anxiety be a good idea.
There are a few good ones if you google search.
Plus you need to look into him getting comfortable in short amounts of time with other humans...no easy but it will help.

JL
I go to my parent's house every weekend. That's 4 new faces he sees every week. We've only been there 3 weekends and he's starting to come around. This last weekend he didn't need to be right by me every second. He wandered off to see what my dad was doing in his office, what my mom was doing in the kitchen (and see if he could "puppy dog eye" her into giving him a treat), and then see what my brothers were doing. When satisfied he'd come looking for me and if I wasn't in the house he would pee, or pee soon after I came back. First I want him to be comfortable with them as he will be seeing them often, and from there I'll start incorporating new people.
Oh, we will be going to a meetup this Friday and some other YT members are going too!!
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Old 08-18-2009, 03:28 PM   #14
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Separation Anxiety | The Humane Society of the United States

Separation Anxiety


Separation anxiety is a serious emotional state in which a dog becomes anxious and panicked when his owner is absent. The physical manifestations of it have been compared to a panic attack in humans.
Typical symptoms are vocalization, destructive behavior or self-mutilation, physical manifestations (panting, drooling, sweaty paw pads, dilated pupils, trembling), breaking of housetraining, and anorexic behavior. The anxiety begins to build during the owner’s departure ritual and the symptoms occur within the first minutes after departure.
Shelter dogs are at an increased risk for developing separation anxiety. They have had bonded relationships with humans in the past which have been severed and so they may likely bond more strongly in subsequent human relationships. In addition, it may have been the animal’s separation anxiety that brought about her surrender to the shelter in the first place. While any dog can conceivably develop separation anxiety, it occurs more frequently with dogs who are particularly affiliative toward humans – “soft”, bondy dogs.
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Old 08-18-2009, 03:31 PM   #15
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My reasoning behing the plan is when he is upstairs in the loft he can hear everything that's going on downstairs, like if I'm talking to Danger cuddling him or whatever. That usually drives Kaji mad because he can hear me but he can't see me. That's why I wait a minute before going upstairs. Once he is no longer pacing, breathing heavy, or yipping I calmly walk upstairs and go about my business. Once he sees me he usually jumps up and down in his pen, that's why I incorporated the 5 min of no eye contact or going up to him to cuddle. All that jumping, pacing, and yipping really tires him out.

Attachment 288636

Sorry for the play by play, but I want to make sure I am doing right by my boy. You're a great asset Nancy I really thank you for the help.
You're welcome and let us know if it works, you might have to tweak it a little for your special circumstances. I had read about this a long time ago, and tried it twice, but I caved in, and went back to sitting on the stairs and letting him kiss me, but this breathing thing of his, got so bad, he really sounds like he can't get his breathe, so he's honking away, like he's having an asthma attack! I just had to try it again, and this time, after doing it 3 times in a row, he was so much better I couldn't believe it. Now that I know it works, it will be easy to keep doing it.

What a little cutie pie, that will take all your strength to resist!
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