Question about Exhibitor / Show Breeder litters

[YorkieRose]

Originally Posted by Breezeaway

I really wasn't referring to "one puppy"
I was just asking If it is the general consensus that it is ok for show breeders to breed in volumes and keep their dogs in kennels?

Yes, I think it is perfectly right and ethical for "some" show breeders to breed as many litters as necessary to ensure the continued success of their line..AND doing so ensures the breed we all love and adore continues to be...

..and Yes, they can keep them in a kennel..running lose in the house is going to reek havoc...kennel is not a dirty word in my world...not the kennels I admire...and by golly, I had a palace for my Yorkies in Maryland...I lived in that kennel myself!

[BFar]

Originally Posted by Breezeaway

I really wasn't referring to "one puppy"
I was just asking If it is the general consensus that it is ok for show breeders to breed in volumes and keep their dogs in kennels?

I have to say yes it is OK for show breeders to breed however many litters they feel they can take care of even if it means they are crated. It's not safe or sanitary for a large volume of dogs to roam freely 24/7. There would be fights and random breeding and havoc. Have you seen animal hoarders who do this?

As long as the dogs get regular exercise, warm clean housing, comfy bedding, fresh air, good food, proper medical care, and love, I think the dogs are well cared for even if they are crated. Not to mention a bitch or two to beed if it's a male. I know breeders that live this way. Some of them buy motorhomes so they can travel and keep their dogs with them. These breeder's entire lives revolve around their dogs. It's not fair to sum them up as "show breeders that breed in volumes and keep their dogs in kennels." That is far from the true picture.

[Breezeaway]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

I knew this would happen, 5 to 10 litters becomes 10-20. I think it's more important to ask, how long has this person studied the breed BEFORE they started breeding, and how many years have they been breeding before they start producing X amount of litters a year. Again, there is no such thing as a perfect dog, but good breeders are trying to produce more that meet standard, and are healthy as well.

I was just asking a question.
How many large kennels have you visited that you know the condition of the dogs and how many they raise a year?
Seems like I remember how much you liked Lake Buena Vista's kennels.
How many litters do you think they raise a year in this huge kennel.
Don't get me wrong it is clean but its a big kennel.
Lake Buena Vista Kennel Instalacoes

[Rhetts_mama]

I can understand the NEED to keep a large number of dogs kenneled. It would just break my heart though, no matter how nice the kennel is. Part of the charm of this breed is the way they interact with people. I would think that being kenneled for long periods would be like torture for them. The longest Rhett has ever been crated was 4 hours, and my goodness, you would have thought he had been in solitary confinement for weeks- he was so po'd.

[manolos mom]

Originally Posted by Breezeaway

I was just asking a question.
How many large kennels have you visited that you know the condition of the dogs and how many they raise a year?
Seems like I remember how much you liked Lake Buena Vista's kennels.
How many litters do you think they raise a year in this huge kennel.
Don't get me wrong it is clean but its a big kennel.
Lake Buena Vista Kennel Instalacoes

Wow, that looks pretty clean to me, I think Manolo's Father is from this Breeder. I'm not crazy about this one. Seems they get a lot of Champions via the back door. But they appear to have a clean kennel.

[BFar]

Originally Posted by Rhetts_mama

I can understand the NEED to keep a large number of dogs kenneled. It would just break my heart though, no matter how nice the kennel is. Part of the charm of this breed is the way they interact with people. I would think that being kenneled for long periods would be like torture for them. The longest Rhett has ever been crated was 4 hours, and my goodness, you would have thought he had been in solitary confinement for weeks- he was so po'd.

The charm of this breed and everything else that is good about it would be lost if not for the show breeders. Where on earth would these wonderful dogs come from? If they only bred one litter a year there would be a slim chance of getting one as a pet I think. That leaves the mills and bybs. I understand your emotion but it's just not fair for the reputable show breeders who preserve this breed so those like you can enjoy it get criticized and scrutinized rather than appreciated. JMO

[BFar]

Originally Posted by YorkieRose

Yes, I think it is perfectly right and ethical for "some" show breeders to breed as many litters as necessary to ensure the continued success of their line..AND doing so ensures the breed we all love and adore continues to be...

..and Yes, they can keep them in a kennel..running lose in the house is going to reek havoc...kennel is not a dirty word in my world...not the kennels I admire...and by golly, I had a palace for my Yorkies in Maryland...I lived in that kennel myself!

OMG sorry. I wrote pretty much the same thing. Sorry. I didn't see your post or I wouldn't have repeated it. I'm on puppy watch is my excuse.

[Rhetts_mama]

Originally Posted by BFar

The charm of this breed and everything else that is good about it would be lost if not for the show breeders. Where on earth would these wonderful dogs come from? If they only bred one litter a year there would be a slim chance of getting one as a pet I think. That leaves the mills and bybs. I understand your emotion but it's just not fair for the reputable show breeders who preserve this breed so those like you can enjoy it get criticized and scrutinized rather than appreciated. JMO

"So those like you" that's a little rude. I don't think I commented on the number of litters one has, but rather how they were treated once they were here. Well, since my babies are rescues from BYB, I would have to agree that it is shame that there are too many BYB's and far too few great breeders out there. I'm sorry if it bothers you that I call out what I think is a bad practice. I don't care whether a dog is comes from a top show breeder or a puppy mill, I don't think caging is in the best interest of ANY animal.

I have to say, after reading more and more of this,I am agreeing with Wylie's Mom. I see a lot of excuses for things the "great show breeders" do that would get the not so great breeder crucified on these boards.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by Breezeaway

I was just asking a question.
How many large kennels have you visited that you know the condition of the dogs and how many they raise a year?
Seems like I remember how much you liked Lake Buena Vista's kennels.
How many litters do you think they raise a year in this huge kennel.
Don't get me wrong it is clean but its a big kennel.
Lake Buena Vista Kennel Instalacoes

Please where have I EVER said I like Lake Buena Vista's kennels? I'm the one that's ALWAYS preaching go see the breeding conditions for yourself. Every person has to decide for themselves if the breeding conditions are humane. Small breeders can also have inhumane housing conditions for their dogs, we read about it all the time. I do not recommend ANY specific breeders, I try to give puppy buyers information that I found useful in selecting a breeder.

[BFar]

Originally Posted by Rhetts_mama

"So those like you" that's a little rude. I don't think I commented on the number of litters one has, but rather how they were treated once they were here. Well, since my babies are rescues from BYB, I would have to agree that it is shame that there are too many BYB's and far too few great breeders out there. I'm sorry if it bothers you that I call out what I think is a bad practice. I don't care whether a dog is comes from a top show breeder or a puppy mill, I don't think caging is in the best interest of ANY animal.

I have to say, after reading more and more of this,I am agreeing with Wylie's Mom. I see a lot of excuses for things the "great show breeders" do that would get the not so great breeder crucified on these boards.

I sincerely apologize. I did not mean to be rude at all. Just a statement, not personal... by "those like you"... I mean Yorkie lovers. So so sorry.

You have every right to your opinion as to what is bad practice. But I'm also really curious as to your opinion as to how it should be done. And also, how the small volume breeder is going to supply all the Yorkie lovers out there?

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by Rhetts_mama

"So those like you" that's a little rude. I don't think I commented on the number of litters one has, but rather how they were treated once they were here. Well, since my babies are rescues from BYB, I would have to agree that it is shame that there are too many BYB's and far too few great breeders out there. I'm sorry if it bothers you that I call out what I think is a bad practice. I don't care whether a dog is comes from a top show breeder or a puppy mill, I don't think caging is in the best interest of ANY animal.

I have to say, after reading more and more of this,I am agreeing with Wylie's Mom. I see a lot of excuses for things the "great show breeders" do that would get the not so great breeder crucified on these boards.

The difference is "show breeders" are improving the breed as in researching, health testing, involved in genetic research, researching pedigrees, continuing to preserve the breed and not just supplying a pet demand. That is the difference Please don't take offense

Donna

[Brooklynn]

Lake Buena Vista's kennel looks state of the art and looked clean to me but doesn't mean anything unless I was to see it for myself and what their breeding practices are.

OMG I would have loved back in the day to have a barn set up like that when I had horses! I had always dreamed of having a state of the art barn for my horses because I would have probably lived in the barn instead of the house LOL...
To me kenneling and crating are two seperate meanings when it comes to show breeding.

Donna

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by manolos mom

Wow, that looks pretty clean to me, I think Manolo's Father is from this Breeder. I'm not crazy about this one. Seems they get a lot of Champions via the back door. But they appear to have a clean kennel.

Lissette,

Lake Buena Vista is a South American Breeder. They did not obtain their dogs via the back door. However, when they started out, they were on the up and up. They befriended and obtained the trust of several well known top breeders.....They do have great dogs in their pedigrees.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by Rhetts_mama

"So those like you" that's a little rude. I don't think I commented on the number of litters one has, but rather how they were treated once they were here. Well, since my babies are rescues from BYB, I would have to agree that it is shame that there are too many BYB's and far too few great breeders out there. I'm sorry if it bothers you that I call out what I think is a bad practice. I don't care whether a dog is comes from a top show breeder or a puppy mill, I don't think caging is in the best interest of ANY animal.

I have to say, after reading more and more of this,I am agreeing with Wylie's Mom. I see a lot of excuses for things the "great show breeders" do that would get the not so great breeder crucified on these boards.

Some pet owners do not think a dog should ever be in a "cage". Others think it's okay for part of the day, and some people seem to think 24/7 is fine. Joey goes in his cage on his own for large parts of the day. I do not think we should crucify any breeder just because she keeps her dogs in cages/crates. I've read threads where breeders allowed their pet dogs to have babies, and because they were pets, the female didn't really want to spend time with their babies, they wanted to be with the human, not the babies. I read threads where pet owners bred a female and another female in the house killed the puppies.

Is there really an ideal breeding condition? While I can picture some "idyllic" situations, there are always flaws in it. Reading the training forum, you will see some people don't even believe in crate training. I read of pet owners who keep dogs in a crate all day, and it drives me nuts. Many pet owners leave their dogs alone up to 12 hours a day, this is another thing I personally have a problem with. I actually think many breeders spend much more one on one time with their dogs, then many pet owners.

[manolos mom]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Lissette,

Lake Buena Vista is a South American Breeder. They did not obtain their dogs via the back door. However, when they started out, they were on the up and up. They befriended and obtained the trust of several well known top breeders.....They do have great dogs in their pedigrees.

Mary, thanks for clarifying that. Knew they had lot's of Champion lines but did not know how they were obtained. Kennel does look exceptional.