Question about Exhibitor / Show Breeder litters

[manolos mom]

Originally Posted by Rhetts_mama

I didn't say I didn't believe in showing or breeding to standard. Just questioning how one can justify the mass breeding by some show breeders as being good for Yorkies in general. The bad breeders are getting their hands on dogs from somewhere, and I don't think they are getting them exclusively from other bad breeders. Since so many of them are claiming champion lines (even though most are distant in their pedigrees), they obviously came from the show breeders to begin with. The lines aren't being controlled tightly enough, IMO.

I don't know what the answer is. It just seems to me that at a certain point (and I don't know what that point is) the mass show breeder crosses over in to the same gray area as the commercial breeders. Maybe not quite as dark a shade of gray, but gray none the less.

You have asked several times what does Breeding to the Standard mean, I pulled this off the YTCA page, please read because this is what every show breeder wants to achive with their line. Yorkshire Terrier Club of America Official Breed Standard

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by BFar

No, I am not a volume breeder. But I know some and they are dedicated to their dogs. It's what they spend most of their lives taking care of. It's not nice to roll your eyes. It's insulting. We can have a decent conversation without it.

Has this thread been reduced to arguing over an eye roll?

You are missing Tammy's point entirely. It's not the showing she objects to it is housing the dogs in a kennel, no matter how fancy.

And NO the show dogs from volume breeders are probably not kept in the kennel, but their parents are.

She compared a state of the art show kennel to her local state of the art animal shelter. How can one be considered good place to house a dog, and the other be considered a bad place for dogs to be.

[manolos mom]

Originally Posted by Breezeaway

What does the price of her parti have to do with this conversation?
How much did you pay for your show dog?

It has lots to do with this. When talking about multiple breedings? I paid nothing compared to the prices of Parti's. And guess what, I get to show mine. Breezeway, I am not trying to argue, just want you to come visit the shows and talk to the breeders/exhibitors, you can learn so much.

[caw]

Originally Posted by manolos mom

Jen, what did you pay for your Parti? I know a few Show Breeders that dont charge half the price of a Parti. Qualifications, you must finish the dog. Please attend a dog show and talk to the Breeders. Most are A+ breeders, that are VERY choosy when finding good homes. Lissette

So....what's the criteria for owning an exhibitor's yorkshire terrier deemed pet quality?

[Breezeaway]

Originally Posted by manolos mom

You have asked several times what does Breeding to the Standard mean, I pulled this off the YTCA page, please read because this is what every show breeder wants to achive with their line. Yorkshire Terrier Club of America Official Breed Standard

The new Disqualification is an ADDITION to the Yorkshire Terrier
Breed Standard. It is there to disqualify Yorkshire Terriers with
colors OTHER THAN those as described in our Breed Standard. The
American Kennel Club is registering parti-colors, solid colors, and
chocolate and tan dogs as Yorkshire Terriers even though they do not
meet our Breed Standard as written. AKC will not deny registration on
color alone. These dogs have been shown at AKC matches and non-AKC
events.

Can someone tell me who showed a parti at an AKC event?
Since when can the YTCA tell people that Parti's cannot be shown in Non- AKC events?
The YTCA does not control, NAKC, IABCA, APRI or UKC ,so what gives them the right to state this?

[Breezeaway]

Originally Posted by manolos mom

It has lots to do with this. When talking about multiple breedings? I paid nothing compared to the prices of Parti's. And guess what, I get to show mine. Breezeway, I am not trying to argue, just want you to come visit the shows and talk to the breeders/exhibitors, you can learn so much.

Quite frankly I don't get what the price has to do with multiple breedings.
Each and every person and or kennel charge what they want. Some of us that have parti's cannot control what others sell their dogs for no more than we can control what Durrers, Exmoor, or any one sells theirs for.

[jencar98]

Lissette, there are some things I don't normally mention the amount I've paid, but with Razz it's no secret he came from Tammy and her for sale ad was posted for all to see. I've actually forgot the exact amount but it was somewhere in the neighborhood of $900....and that is about half the price I paid for Reno, from a well known show breeder. To tell ya the truth though.....I would have paid much more for Razz knowing him as I do now♥

Yes, there are partis outrageously priced, just as there are other yorkies priced too high, some even from show breeders sold for pets. I'm aware of a show breeder that had a chocolate puppy appear in one of her litters. I was told (not by her) she had a buyer lined up for $5,000. I was told later she decided to keep the pup, IDK what actually happened.

Also....I've been to numerous dog shows and spoke with many breeders. lol...I was just telling someone this morning, I've got over a thousand hours into my education of yorkies/showing/breeding. That education, my rescue work and time, have all been instrumental in developing my opinions.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

I haven't really read anything in this thread that makes me feel much more clear about the original concern and the volume of breeding . I'm actually feeling a little dazed over the contradictory info.

Does anyone understand the concern that for YEARS here at YT, it has been posted over and over and over that "Oh no! You should not breed that dog, it is out of standard!" --and-- "you should have that dog evaluated by a show breeder".

Well . Now we're hearing that show breeders believe "yes, it's fine to breed out-of-standard as long as you're breeding TO standard and know your lines" -- firstly, this goes against so much of what has been said here at YT. Second, how would any breeder know their own out-of-standard breeding 'results' unless they've bred out-of-standard often enough for it to be predictable!? And if out-of-standard breedings can result in TO STANDARD, then I no longer understand why we hear at YT constantly "this dog is out of standard and shouldn't be bred".

Also, I don't understand so often hearing "well, a show breeder should evaluate all potential breeding prospects, but it is out of standard already - so, actually, it should not be bred or shown" -- bc now (after all these years) I'm reading the opposite right here in this thread.

And for years, we hear an exhibitor is only supposed to breed every couple years (for their own, specific program needs)...and now...that all changed with this thread. So, which is it? That exhibitors should only breed every couple of years? Or, that it's (quote) impossible to develop a champ line unless breeding 10 litters a year (end quote) (as someone specifically stated in this thread)?

I am genuinely confused by all the incongruities and contradictions, I really am. I would be happy if people have the answers and can explain it...I just really want to understand this. And, I mean no disrespect whatsoever to anyone on this thread; rather, I appreciate the willingness for a discussion.

I'm seeing what I think are double standards on this thread. A person can have the *most* beautiful facilities on the planet, however, if they are churning out litters, they are *churning* out litters - no matter how many ways people try to re-frame it.

Whew!!!! Finally

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by YorkieRose

I just wish the good breeders could supply enough to put the miller out of business.

Read post #184

[Brooklynn]

Again, there is no perfect dog, no perfect breeder ect....find a breeder your comfortable with, find a yorkie your comfortable with. No amount of time or energy to those that have our minds set on either fence is going to budge. This is a very educational thread use it the way you see is right for you.

Lots of valuable information here take it for what fits your values, your beliefs and your standards.

Donna

[Rhetts_mama]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

I can assure you that I'm not making excuses for anyone, if I did not believe that some purebred breeders actually loved the breed as a whole as much as I do, and not just their own dogs, I would not buy a purebred. Do breeders and their dogs make sacrifices for the good of the breed? Yes, I believe the do. If you do not believe in showing, I do not understand how you can buy a purebred dog, for without show breeders who breed to standard, the purebred yorkie would look undistinguishable from other dogs in 50 years. Some of these bigger kennels are probably not even selling to the pet buyer, but they are probably selling to a small breeder who has proven herself to someone and has shown she won't be breeding for profit. So many small breeder say, nobody will sell me a good dog, but they have never taken the time to prove to someone, they are doing it for the right reason, and not just to earn pocket change. Most of the breeders I know, have spent way more on their dogs than they have ever earned.

I've read here multiple times that breeding and showing is expensive, and a litter, done right, is not a profit maker. But wouldn't it be safe to assume that someone who has reached the level where they hiring kennel help and building out buildings for the multiple litters are probably turning a profit? I can't imagine that they are all independently wealthy.

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by Rhetts_mama

I've read here multiple times that breeding and showing is expensive, and a litter, done right, is not a profit maker. But wouldn't it be safe to assume that someone who has reached the level where they hiring kennel help and building out buildings for the multiple litters are probably turning a profit? I can't imagine that they are all independently wealthy.

Actually I know several that are independently wealthy

[manolos mom]

Originally Posted by jencar98

Lissette, there are some things I don't normally mention the amount I've paid, but with Razz it's no secret he came from Tammy and her for sale ad was posted for all to see. I've actually forgot the exact amount but it was somewhere in the neighborhood of $900....and that is about half the price I paid for Reno, from a well known show breeder. To tell ya the truth though.....I would have paid much more for Razz knowing him as I do now♥

Yes, there are partis outrageously priced, just as there are other yorkies priced too high, some even from show breeders sold for pets. I'm aware of a show breeder that had a chocolate puppy appear in one of her litters. I was told (not by her) she had a buyer lined up for $5,000. I was told later she decided to keep the pup, IDK what actually happened.

Also....I've been to numerous dog shows and spoke with many breeders. lol...I was just telling someone this morning, I've got over a thousand hours into my education of yorkies/showing/breeding. That education, my rescue work and time, have all been instrumental in developing my opinions.

You know Jen, that Breeder and all Breeders like that should be reported. Without hesitation. Rescue will always be in my heart. I have helped YHR on many occasions and will always. My point is we need good responsible breeders that do the right thing not just for the money but for the breed. I started going to shows about 2 years ago and have met lots of exhibitors. I help do whatever and have proven myself worthy of loving and caring for one of their dogs. Thats how I got started. And you can betcha I will be in Houston showing at Reliant, then helping YHR Booth this summer.

[manolos mom]

Originally Posted by caw

So....what's the criteria for owning an exhibitor's yorkshire terrier deemed pet quality?

Start going to the shows and meeting the exhibitors. Make sure you approach them after the show. Here is a link for some shows that may be in your area. Jack Onofrio Dog Shows, LLC

[Rhetts_mama]

Originally Posted by Brooklynn

Actually I know several that are independently wealthy

Do they have any sons? I've got 3 daughters here I need to marry off