Question about Exhibitor / Show Breeder litters

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by megansmomma

Was it KFC

Sorry Donna I just couldn't help myself

There is a certain presence that you see and feel when you watch a dog in the ring. It's electrifying to watch and even more so in person. It would be like taking Ellie May Clampet to a beauty pageant. She was a hot little dish but out of her element in Beverly Hills

Well not sure on the brand of chicken as someone left it there LOL...

I know some yorkies I've seen in the ring have just simply taken my breath away and I"m talking the dog had great structure, movement and a beautiful coat and was like floating on air in the ring nothing more breath taking!

Donna

[BFar]

Originally Posted by megansmomma

I'm sorry you are confused

I thought we were talking about breeder/exhibitors in this thread? no? I think we were... My bad again?

[gemy]

Originally Posted by DvlshAngel985

This sounds awesome. Never a dull moment for this pup I suppose.

To this I have a question. If a dog has the looks, and health to compete in the show ring, has a beautiful temperament, but just does not have the show personality, are they shown? Or would beautiful temperament = show personality? I'm sorry if that's a dumb question, I really know 0 about showing.

I know showing a dog is not comparable to a beauty pageant, because in a beauty pageant, people aren't up there for others to decide of they are "breeding worthy."
But, for the sake of argument, humor me and let's say they are the same just for a moment.
There are plenty of beautiful women in the world, that are sweet and have many talents. They don't all automatically go to talent shows because it just isn't their thing. Is this the same in the dog world?

No it is not a dumb question in anyway at all. While there are many shades of grey here, I am going to come down on a side more black n white.

IMO if a dog is "unable" to show in the ring, then there is something incorrect about their temperament. Let me define unable for a moment: a dog that subissively pees in the ring, a dog that refuses physical examination either through aggression or through submission, a dog that refuses to trot in the ring due to fear, a dog that tries to fight or bite another dog in the ring, a dog that cowers in the ring or has a huge startle reaction to normal sounds and smells within the show environment.

A beautiful temperament in my mind and a "show temperament" go hand in hand. If your dog is a confident, and a well adjusted dog, they should be able to show in the ring. Now again in my mind, a great "show" dog, just loves and I mean really loves to show. It is their milieu, they go out there and throughly enjoy all aspects of showing. So a very few dogs will be "great" show dogs (and here I'm talking about show attitude), but all very good tempered dogs should be able to "show" well enough in the ring to earn their points. These dogs will probably never go BIS, or even place in group, but are deserving of their championship.

Magic my first BRT was and is a fine tempered dog, who accepted the show ring. When it stopped being fun for him, which happened around 2yrs old he retired. Now on the other hand, he lives to work. Just watch him in an obedience ring! He goes out there totally focussed on me, happy in his attitude, eager and almost anxious to please me. Sometimes that eagerness goes against us, as he can anticipate my commands and move ahead of the command ( a no no in the ring). So for him, he wasn't a "star" show dog, although he did do well in the ring, but he is a "star" working dog. Ilona my breeder (of Razz) and trainer for Magic, was over at Boxing Day, and of course we did a bit of work in the house, hand commands only, and she smiled and said Now that is a Working Dog. So enthusiastic and eager to work.

Razz is more of a showboy than Magic. He does "turn on" in the showring. How-ever with him my challenge is in the obedience arena. He is a true terrier, and still can be, ditzy... like who/what/ huh, what is sit? Do you really mean sit right now? was that a command you just gave me? But Mom there is something smelling interesting over here or there, or I hear this or that... selective deafness... LOL.
We have been working for about one year on, staying out of the kitchen when our family has dinner. My BRT's took about 4wks to obey the commands, and these dogs are highly food motivated. cough cough, Razz on the other hand, enjoys defying my command. He is very cute, in his way to try to sneak back into the kitchen. And he works his cuteness. did I mention he was stubborn

So in summary, if a dog exhibits behavious as mentioned above, not only should you not show him or her, you should not Breed him or her, because the temperament is incorrect.

If a dog just accepts the showring, but doesn't really enjoy it, finish him/her and retire them from showing.

If a dog loves the showring, all other attributes being great, and financial wherewithall in place, then go ahead and special that "special" dog/bitch.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by BFar

I'm sorry you are confused

I thought we were talking about breeder/exhibitors in this thread? no? I think we were... My bad again?

Jodi was answering this comment.

Originally Posted by TammyJM

Jodi, there's more to life than a dog show and I feel that if a person thinks that they need to put their precious animals in a kennel, then their priorities are a little messed up.

This has been asked about "pet breeders", but how about directed at those that show....just how many breeders do we need to "better the breed"? How many is too many? I know that some, within this thread, have said that 5-10 litters a year is fine depending on who the breeder is and on their facility and the money that they have to provide for care. Why is this okay?

[BFar]

[quote=megansmomma;3379009]

Originally Posted by gemy

What is up with the weird quoting? I had to go back and redo my last post because it quoted me with a instead of YorkieRose.

As for what you are saying..............I couldn't agree more. That is what I find so troubling regarding so many breeders. They just don't understand what it takes to breed an excellent representation of the breed. This is exactly why there are so many people that are disappointed in the look of their adult yorkie. I really think that it is so much more relevant with this breed. To my untrained eye I look at Golden Retriever and they pretty much look the same (very generally speaking). You see a GR on the street and someone is not going to stop you and tell you that it isn't that breed you purchased. This is not to say that there are not health or temperament issues involved in these dogs. Just a very broad comparison and I am not saying other breeds should not be help to the standard.
There are so many threads on YT with members having hurt feelings when they are questioned or even argued with about their dog being a yorkie. The uninformed buyer purchases from a disreputable breeder and the dogs don't look anything like the breed, have health issues etc. that effect both the owner and dog for life. Who wants these kinds of breeding going on? It's just wrong.

It's the BUYERS!!! I truly believe they are the entire problem. Poor people can get 1000 for a Yorkie? Why wouldn't they do it for the money? Take away the uneducated consumer and I don't think there would be a market for less than wonderfully bred Yorkies.

[BFar]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Jodi was answering this comment.

Oh well, now I'm confused. I have to go shopping now anyway, LOL.

[DvlshAngel985]

Originally Posted by gemy

Razz is more of a showboy than Magic. He does "turn on" in the showring. How-ever with him my challenge is in the obedience arena. He is a true terrier, and still can be, ditzy... like who/what/ huh, what is sit? Do you really mean sit right now? was that a command you just gave me? But Mom there is something smelling interesting over here or there, or I hear this or that... selective deafness... LOL.
We have been working for about one year on, staying out of the kitchen when our family has dinner. My BRT's took about 4wks to obey the commands, and these dogs are highly food motivated. cough cough, Razz on the other hand, enjoys defying my command. He is very cute, in his way to try to sneak back into the kitchen. And he works his cuteness. did I mention he was stubborn

Well wouldn't that be the ideal personality of a Yorkshire Terrier?
All kidding aside, thanks for the response. I understand a tad bit more. It seems a yorkie, whether show or not, whether fearful or outgoing still has basic elements in their personality of a terrier. My pup is fearful, but he does all of the quoted above. Oh geez... does he keep sneaking into the kitchen. I have stories to tell!

BUT! Even with all his crazy quirks and an undesirable personality (I'm convinced in any other home, he would have been re-homed twice by now) I have a feeling agility is going to be his thing. For the most part he's eager to please, and we "practice" in an empty jungle gym. He does everything he is asked without a bigger reward than a good boy.

[gemy]

Originally Posted by DvlshAngel985

Well wouldn't that be the ideal personality of a Yorkshire Terrier?
All kidding aside, thanks for the response. I understand a tad bit more. It seems a yorkie, whether show or not, whether fearful or outgoing still has basic elements in their personality of a terrier. My pup is fearful, but he does all of the quoted above. Oh geez... does he keep sneaking into the kitchen. I have stories to tell!

BUT! Even with all his crazy quirks and an undesirable personality (I'm convinced in any other home, he would have been re-homed twice by now) I have a feeling agility is going to be his thing. For the most part he's eager to please, and we "practice" in an empty jungle gym. He does everything he is asked without a bigger reward than a good boy.

That is great! I hope you find much joy in agility, as I have. It is such a fun thing to do together. Eager to please is such a great characteristic in a dog. You and your boy will bond ever closer the more you work with each other. Agility is a true team sport... you and your dog can't get any better than that

[megansmomma]

Originally Posted by BFar

These horrible breeders you are referring to are not breeder/exhibitors. Do you find champion sired or fine pedigreed Yorkies in rescue? A Durrer, Nicnac, Pastoral, Stratford, Carneal, Tiffany, Mariah, etc.? Nope... they are in the finest of homes. You won't find one of mine unless it's over my dead body somehow.

First off, in rescue you do not have a pedigree turned over with a dog at a shelter so there would be no way to know what is in their lines. It's not like you go to the local shelter, they hand you a dog and their pedigree. From what I have read on this forum isn't that called backdoor breeding? I've read before about how this can occur and hen a breeder will start tossing big names around in their advertising. Maybe someone else can help clarify better than I can.

[megansmomma]

[quote=BFar;3379131]

Originally Posted by megansmomma

It's the BUYERS!!! I truly believe they are the entire problem. Poor people can get 1000 for a Yorkie? Why wouldn't they do it for the money? Take away the uneducated consumer and I don't think there would be a market for less than wonderfully bred Yorkies.

I could not disagree more on this point. The average consumer might try to do their homework, read a few books, steer clear of pet shops etc, etc, etc, but just like a Used Car Salesman there is always someone more slick at what they do. The breeders that are in to for the money will say and do whatever is needed to make that sale. Just take a look at all of the puppy mills that have turned to the internet posting pictures of their family sitting next to a fireplace or in a wagon saying "our puppies are raised underfoot......" They know what to say and do it well to scammer the consumer. If there were better regulations and consuer protection laws along with accountability for breeding there would be less breeders willing to sell sick dogs/poorly bred dogs to the public at large. But really, this discussion is getting so far off topic a this point I need to stop.

[107barney]

Originally Posted by BFar

These horrible breeders you are referring to are not breeder/exhibitors. Do you find champion sired or fine pedigreed Yorkies in rescue? A Durrer, Nicnac, Pastoral, Stratford, Carneal, Tiffany, Mariah, etc.? Nope... they are in the finest of homes. You won't find one of mine unless it's over my dead body somehow.

Any dog can end up in rescue, fine pedigree or not. Even those who live in the finest homes can find themselves faced with changed circumstances....

Sometimes, show breeders themselves are to blame for further burdening an already overburdened rescue system....just look at the recent thread on this rescue forum about the six yorkies thrown away and neglected by their "show breeders" in Maine. I bet they had lovely family trees.

[Rhetts_mama]

Originally Posted by BFar

It's the BUYERS!!! I truly believe they are the entire problem. Poor people can get 1000 for a Yorkie? Why wouldn't they do it for the money? Take away the uneducated consumer and I don't think there would be a market for less than wonderfully bred Yorkies.

Perhaps a course in ethics should be required for breeders. Just because one CAN produce an off standard dog for a few hundred bucks doesn't mean they should.

To me, "poor people can get 1000 for a Yorkie. Why wouldn't they do it for the money?" is like saying "Poor people can get $100 for a Kilo, so why not produce it?" Money isn't an excuse for doing wrong.

The fault likes evenly in both camps; breeders and buyers.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by Rhetts_mama

Perhaps a course in ethics should be required for breeders. Just because one CAN produce an off standard dog for a few hundred bucks doesn't mean they should.

The fault likes evenly in both camps; breeders and buyers.

I kind of agree with this, buyers should educate themselves, but ultimately, the person who brings the dog into the world holds the most responsibility for that dog and any offspring it has. So be careful who you sell to, and be careful who you buy from. I really do think it's up to breeders to educate the puppy buyer, but so few do, and that's why I love YT, puppy buyers can learn a lot.

[Rhetts_mama]

Ugh- I need to learn how to spell. My last post should have said "lies" and not "likes".

[Ladyhawk]

Originally Posted by YorkieRose

I saw every single name mentioned start out...one thing ALL have in common is dedication and love for the breed. They all worked so hard to be where they are and stay where they are...I remember "Paddington" when she only had her pet Yorkie she got from me..I remember how long and hard she has worked to be where she is...and "Caraneal"..nothing but consistant work for perfection...on and on...

Laurie said that when she started out it was working as an RN full time, raising kids and showing dogs. I asked her how she did it; she said she almost went nuts but she made it. Her success speaks for it's self. I'm very lucky to be involved with such dedicated women.