Question about Exhibitor / Show Breeder litters

[musiccitymom]

Originally Posted by FlDebra

I don't think that is agreed upon by all. I would not presume to make a pronoucement on a breeder with so little information known. I am still trying to get a hold of the 5-10 litters a year as that is such a huge range. Available help is another huge concept to add to the equation too. If there is a family or even several paid hands helping to raise the litters, then the load could well be spread out thinner than a much smaller yearly tally with one lone breeder involved. Nancy has already mentioned some situations where you do sensibly use an out-of-standard dog in your program. Bringing color back is the one I see most often alluded to. It was also stated that the member "appears to be in YTCA" but that is not for sure, evidently. Not sure why that is a question -- are they not on the list? Yorkshire Terrier Club of America About The Club I would also want to know what the "breeder listing site" is and how accurate their information might be. I just don't know enough about the situation to call this mysterious breeder "iffy."




No -- if the breeder only champions 1 out of 24, then I would not think the other 23 would all be sold as pets. Some would be sold as show potentials/hopefuls, some would become initial breeding dams/sires for new breeders or other breeders wanting to bring something to their line that these puppies offer. Most of the exhibitor/breeders have people who want to get their lines. When they have puppies, they have waiting lists and they are not all for pets, at all. If a new person wants to get into the breeding/exhibiting circle, they have to start somewhere and it is by convincing one of the seasoned exhibitor/breeders that they are educated and dedicated enough to be trusted with one of their puppies. Those looking to improve their own lines, may reach out to an exhibitor they have seen show dogs with the traits they want to improve.

I don't know who is being referred to in this thread, but why the secrecy and inneundo? Wouldn't it be better to ask the breeder direct? I would want to give them the opportunity to explain information gleened from other sources, see if it is accurate (or the result of a typo or something) and hear their explanation. Sometimes a little information can sound misleading and sometimes its just the tip of an iceberg. But I would not make any judgement based on so little info. Just my opinion though!

As always, well said!

[Sugar's Mom]

Originally Posted by FlDebra

I don't think that is agreed upon by all. I would not presume to make a pronoucement on a breeder with so little information known. I am still trying to get a hold of the 5-10 litters a year as that is such a huge range. Available help is another huge concept to add to the equation too. If there is a family or even several paid hands helping to raise the litters, then the load could well be spread out thinner than a much smaller yearly tally with one lone breeder involved. Nancy has already mentioned some situations where you do sensibly use an out-of-standard dog in your program. Bringing color back is the one I see most often alluded to. It was also stated that the member "appears to be in YTCA" but that is not for sure, evidently. Not sure why that is a question -- are they not on the list? Yorkshire Terrier Club of America About The Club I would also want to know what the "breeder listing site" is and how accurate their information might be. I just don't know enough about the situation to call this mysterious breeder "iffy."




No -- if the breeder only champions 1 out of 24, then I would not think the other 23 would all be sold as pets. Some would be sold as show potentials/hopefuls, some would become initial breeding dams/sires for new breeders or other breeders wanting to bring something to their line that these puppies offer. Most of the exhibitor/breeders have people who want to get their lines. When they have puppies, they have waiting lists and they are not all for pets, at all. If a new person wants to get into the breeding/exhibiting circle, they have to start somewhere and it is by convincing one of the seasoned exhibitor/breeders that they are educated and dedicated enough to be trusted with one of their puppies. Those looking to improve their own lines, may reach out to an exhibitor they have seen show dogs with the traits they want to improve.

I don't know who is being referred to in this thread, but why the secrecy and inneundo? Wouldn't it be better to ask the breeder direct? I would want to give them the opportunity to explain information gleened from other sources, see if it is accurate (or the result of a typo or something) and hear their explanation. Sometimes a little information can sound misleading and sometimes its just the tip of an iceberg. But I would not make any judgement based on so little info. Just my opinion though!

Very few people bother to check and see if rumors are true before they sstart posting them as fact and passing it around behind the scenes. i think Mardelin once said in a thread, if she hears a rumor she will call the person or try to find out if it is true instead of taking it and running with it. My phone has been strangely quiet since July.

Deb, as always, you are the voice of reason and from what I have seen, stay true to your beliefs.

[Brooklynn]

One has to remember that some very top show breeders/exhibitors do have more than two or three bitches that they breed and could have more than 1 to 2 litters a year than some of the small exhibitor homes. While I can't have more than that a year doesn't necessarly mean that it can't be done. I know some very top notch show exhibitors/breeders that do have more than 5 litters a year but they also are world renowned show exhibitor/breeders with many many champions and have been doing this for years and with excellent kennel help and of course the finances and yes I would buy a show dog from them IF I've researched that particular breeder and it's the line I want to go with. Some food for thought....

Donna

[magicgenie]

if breeding 1-2 litters a year, wouldn't it take forever to establish a "line," assuming you're starting from scratch with outcrossing?
I'm surprised to see this question being asked by someone who spends a lot of time on YT.
I never thought it was bad to strategically breed an out-of-standard animal that comes from a good background if the expectation that progeny will be within the standard.
I agree with the posters who recommend going directly to the breeder in question to ask for more info.

[Breezeaway]

I go to Tsa La Gi website alot and she certainly has alot of litters a year.
Isn't she a YTCA member.
She has beautiful dogs and puppies.
Can you really judge a person by the number of puppies they raise a year?

About Us

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by Breezeaway

I go to Tsa La Gi website alot and she certainly has alot of litters a year.
Isn't she a YTCA member.
She has beautiful dogs and puppies.
Can you really judge a person by the number of puppies they raise a year?

About Us

She's "not" a YTCA member...

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by magicgenie

I'm surprised to see this question being asked by someone who spends a lot of time on YT.

I don't mind being surprising. I hope it never comes to a place where I stop asking questions, even if the questions seem surprising. If I have something I want to learn about from people here, I'm comfortable asking...and I think being here for questions is part of why YT is here. If I haven't gone directly to someone specifically to ask a question, there may be a valid reason .

Also, like I said a few times now - the reason for some of my questions is bc of that which I've learned here at YT, from the exhibitors who share their experiences. It's been my impression that they breed very, very seldom - hence, the question.

I guess your question as to 'how can a show breeder start a line if breeding only 1-2 litters a year' is best put to those who do just that. I honestly don't know.

I apologize if my question is naive to some. Breeding is not something I'm involved with personally, nor specialize in. If someone ever asks me a question about what I specialize in/know about....I try my best to answer them helpfully. I don't say "well, I'm surprised you asked this question with the amount of time you spend here" -- .

Well, Happy New Year everyone.

[DvlshAngel985]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

I don't mind being surprising. I hope it never comes to a place where I stop asking questions, even if the questions seem surprising. If I have something I want to learn about from people here, I'm comfortable asking...and I think being here for questions is part of why YT is here. If I haven't gone directly to someone specifically to ask a question, there may be a valid reason .

Also, like I said a few times now - the reason for some of my questions is bc of that which I've learned here at YT, from the exhibitors who share their experiences. It's been my impression that they breed very, very seldom - hence, the question.

I guess your question as to 'how can a show breeder start a line if breeding only 1-2 litters a year' is best put to those who do just that. I honestly don't know.

I apologize if my question is naive to some. Breeding is not something I'm involved with personally, nor specialize in. If someone ever asks me a question about what I specialize in/know about....I try my best to answer them helpfully. I don't say "well, I'm surprised you asked this question with the amount of time you spend here" -- .

Well, Happy New Year everyone.

you're not alone. I was under the same impression when it came to breeding. I learned something in this thread.

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by DvlshAngel985

you're not alone. I was under the same impression when it came to breeding. I learned something in this thread.

Most show exhibitors do breed small litters but your most well renowned breeders that have well established lines are on a larger scale. Look at the Durrer lines, Statford, Parkside, TyAva, Rothby, Pastoral, NicNak, This Time, the list could go on they don't breed one or two litters a year to be as well established and have the number of NICE BIS, BISS, Multi Group Winners nd placements, multi CH's without having more than one or two litters a year. These are some of your top and well respected breeders in North America and Canada. All you have to do is research each of these exhibitor/breeders and they are still actively showing and producing top notch show yorkies with the exception of Rothby with the passing of Roberta! What a great loss to the yorkie world when she passed!

But these are only a handful vs. the majority that can only breed one to two litters a year. Even the exhibitors I mentioned above have scaled down due to their age, economy, and everything getting expensive. I hope this explains part of why some may have 5 or more litters a year due to having maybe at least 5 to 6 bitches. Might I add this....most of the exibitors above are very well off and have state of the art kennels with kennel help, nannies for puppies ect...access to vets 24/7 and spare no expense.

Donna

[DvlshAngel985]

Originally Posted by Brooklynn

Most show exhibitors do breed small litters but your most well renowned breeders that have well established lines are on a larger scale. Look at the Durrer lines, Statford, Parkside, TyAva, Rothby, Pastoral, NicNak, This Time, the list could go on they don't breed one or two litters a year to be as well established and have the number of NICE BIS, BISS, Multi Group Winners nd placements, multi CH's without having more than one or two litters a year. These are some of your top and well respected breeders in North America and Canada. All you have to do is research each of these exhibitor/breeders and they are still actively showing and producing top notch show yorkies with the exception of Rothby with the passing of Roberta! What a great loss to the yorkie world when she passed!

But these are only a handful vs. the majority that can only breed one to two litters a year. Even the exhibitors I mentioned above have scaled down due to their age, economy, and everything getting expensive. I hope this explains part of why some may have 5 or more litters a year due to having maybe at least 5 to 6 bitches. Might I add this....most of the exibitors above are very well off and have state of the art kennels with kennel help, nannies for puppies ect...access to vets 24/7 and spare no expense.

Donna

You've given me something to research. I've heard of the famous "Durrer" lines but I have absolutely no clue what that even means. If I ever find myself with little to do, I'll read up on all those lines.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by DvlshAngel985

you're not alone. I was under the same impression when it came to breeding. I learned something in this thread.

Many breeders start out with pets only that they are never planning to breed, they get involved in the breed, and find a mentor. It may take years before a mentor actually gives them a dog that must be championed first, and part of this is probably to test their dedication to breeding. Are they doing it for the quick buck, or do they really love the breed, not just their own dogs, but the breed as a whole? Some breeders have been doing this for over over 20 years, and they have developed their own lines, so they might have over 5-10 litters a year, for a newbie breeder or someone who's not really studied the breed, I would think this number is too high. One of the breeders here can explain what it means to "develop" your own lines, but you can't really put your name on a line until you've bred several generations, I think it's 6, but I'm not sure.

[DvlshAngel985]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Many breeders start out with pets only that they are never planning to breed, they get involved in the breed, and find a mentor. It may take years before a mentor actually gives them a dog that must be championed first, and part of this is probably to test their dedication to breeding. Are they doing it for the quick buck, or do they really love the breed, not just their own dogs, but the breed as a whole? Some breeders have been doing this for over over 20 years, and they have developed their own lines, so they might have over 5-10 litters a year, for a newbie breeder or someone who's not really studied the breed, I would think this number is too high. One of the breeders here can explain what it means to "develop" your own lines, but you can't really put your name on a line until you've bred several generations, I think it's 6, but I'm not sure.

Now this I knew and really makes perfect sense to me. It's all the different established lines that I don't know about. I'm curious to find out more about them and what exactly makes them so desirable.

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by DvlshAngel985

Now this I knew and really makes perfect sense to me. It's all the different established lines that I don't know about. I'm curious to find out more about them and what exactly makes them so desirable.

A lot of your great dogs come from Rothby and Durrer...Roberta Rothenbach is Rothby and Betty Ann Durrer is Durrer out of Canada ect...go to Sweetyblu.com and do a research on some of the exhibitors/breeders mentioned. OMG they have produced some gorgeous yorkies along with Pastoral out of Canada and NicNac out of Canada along with Aero out of Canada, Stratford in the US some of the most gorgeous yorkies and some top winning in North America and Canada and all across the world.
Go to Sweetyblu.com and you can find out alot on your research and start to see what lines are all involved and their siblings ect...nice site to see and ooohhh and awwww over.

Donna

[DvlshAngel985]

Originally Posted by Brooklynn

A lot of your great dogs come from Rothby and Durrer...Roberta Rothenbach is Rothby and Betty Ann Durrer is Durrer out of Canada ect...go to Sweetyblu.com and do a research on some of the exhibitors/breeders mentioned. OMG they have produced some gorgeous yorkies along with Pastoral out of Canada and NicNac out of Canada along with Aero out of Canada, Stratford in the US some of the most gorgeous yorkies and some top winning in North America and Canada and all across the world.
Go to Sweetyblu.com and you can find out alot on your research and start to see what lines are all involved and their siblings ect...nice site to see and ooohhh and awwww over.

Donna

Thanks! I'll look into that.

[kjcmsw]

Originally Posted by Breezeaway

I go to Tsa La Gi website alot and she certainly has alot of litters a year.
Isn't she a YTCA member.
She has beautiful dogs and puppies.
Can you really judge a person by the number of puppies they raise a year?

About Us

and apparently one can be judged by whether or not they choose to show, etc...in the end showing, or # of litters isn't what determines a good dog, but I would agree, for me, I'd rather get a puppy from someone who doesn't have many litters on the floor at one time because it takes time to give each puppy individual time. About the time I think I'm exhausting giving three pups all the attention I think is important to their socialization I hear of someone with 10+ pups (from multiple litters). I think one has to know their limit and provide each pup with as much one-on-one time. If one can effectively do that for three or ten, it is they that know. But at first glance I, as a buyer, would mostly choose from the small litter breeder than the large (with all other things being equal in the pup) just because I don't believe the one with so many running around could possibly be adequately caring for them.
I take mine daily (5 days/wk) for car rides, one day (alternating days) a week just one pup comes to work with me for more individualized time (queen/king for the day sort of thing), etc., etc. It'd be hard for one person with 10+ pups to do that consistently and frequently I think.