my yorkies are rare

[Raymond's Mom]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

How can the parent be a maltese if it is registered as a yorkie from a reputable AKC registerd show breeder?

I realise there are people who might register a maltese as a yorkie and then mix the two breeds, but these are long time show breeders and they did not just test one generation, they tested many generations.

I find it interesting that you feel the AKC is that irresponsible to just take anyones word for it.

They did not just pop up out of the blue. these breeders were established yorkie show breeders long before the the parti gene showed up.

Are you also then saying the same thing of the biewers?
Please do more in depth research before making such allegations.

Jeanie,

I'm merely telling you that the frequent sire DNA testing doesn't identify breeds. Just individual dogs..... So using frequent sire DNA tests to give credibility to the parti's lineage isn't possible.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Raymond's Mom

Jeanie,

I'm merely telling you that the frequent sire DNA testing doesn't identify breeds. Just individual dogs..... So using frequent sire DNA tests to give credibility to the parti's lineage isn't possible.

This is not the frequent sire DNA testing.

This is DNA testing of all the puppies and the sire and the dam to prove that these puppies came from the registered yorkie that the breeder claimed that it came from.

Both the mother and the father and the grandparents on both sides were DNA tested. To prove that the pedigree was acurate.

There was very extensive testing done before they would register these dogs.

This has nothing to do with the frequent sire DNA testing.

[Raymond's Mom]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

This is not the frequent sire DNA testing.

This is DNA testing of all the puppies and the sire and the dam to prove that these puppies came from the registered yorkie that the breeder claimed that it came from.

Both the mother and the father and the grandparents on both sides were DNA tested. To prove that the pedigree was acurate.

There was very extensive testing done before they would register these dogs.

This has nothing to do with the frequent sire DNA testing.

Jeanie,

There is no such DNA test that exits with AKC at this point.. If you have been told otherwise by those that sold you your breeding stock then you have been misinformed.

[Raymond's Mom]

Originally Posted by Raymond's Mom

Jeanie,

There is no such DNA test that exits with AKC at this point.. If you have been told otherwise by those that sold you your breeding stock then you have been misinformed.

To clarify, the AKC DNA tests determine 1. voluntary profiling 2. frequently used sire 3. semen collection requirement 4. parentage evaluation (determine who the parents are)
There is no test that determines what breed is being tested.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Raymond's Mom

Jeanie,

There is no such DNA test that exits with AKC at this point.. If you have been told otherwise by those that sold you your breeding stock then you have been misinformed.

Yes there is. It is the same testing they do with humans to determine parentage. They test both parents and they test the puppies and they can tell if these puppies came from these parents. Just like they can with people.

They cannot tell what breed the parents are from the DNA.

But if the parents are both registered yorkies and the grand parents are all registered yorkies and they are registered by a long tiem reputasble show breeder with an established relationship with the AKC, then you can be reasonably certain that the dog are who the the breeder claims that they are.

I'm am sure that the AKC would not have done all of this for just any breeder.

Please do your research on these dogs, as I have done. I have not been misinformed, and these breeders are VERY reputable breeders in good standing with the AKC with a very long line of chasmpions.

In fact if you study this you will find that most of these abnormalities are derived from show champions, because those are the dogs that are inbred or closely line bred and that is when and how these recessive genes surface.

[Raymond's Mom]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

Yes there is. It is the same testing they do with humans to determine parentage. They test both parents and they test the puppies and they can tell if these puppies came from these parents. Just like they can with people.

They cannot tell what breed the parents are from the DNA.

But if the parents are both registered yorkies and the grand parents are all registered yorkies and they are registered by a long tiem reputasble show breeder with an established relationship with the AKC, then you can be reasonably certain that the dog are who the the breeder claims that they are.

I'm am sure that the AKC would not have done all of this for just any breeder.

Please do your research on these dogs, as I have done. I have not been misinformed, and these breeders are VERY reputable breeders in good standing with the AKC with a very long line of chasmpions.

In fact if you study this you will find that most of these abnormalities are derived from show champions, because those are the dogs that are inbred or closely line bred and that is when and how these recessive genes surface.

I give up................................

[yorkieK9trainer]

Jeanie K
You are absolutely correct...so is the other poster.
IN THE SENSE that, w/o the paperwork from the AKC vouching on behalf of the paperwork in question regarding the purity of a lineage you wouldn't be able to tell if they were Yorkies or not, even though they're registered as such.

So, no, you cannot tell as of yet-through the AKC, there are private organizations that do this now however!-anything beyond whom is related to whom, but not what breed they are or are supposed to be. That's why your pedigree should match up when the DNA profiles are done. If not, then someone on the list is there that doesn't belong.

Make sense? You're both right and arguing about different things.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by yorkieK9trainer

Jeanie K
You are absolutely correct...so is the other poster.
IN THE SENSE that, w/o the paperwork from the AKC vouching on behalf of the paperwork in question regarding the purity of a lineage you wouldn't be able to tell if they were Yorkies or not, even though they're registered as such.

So, no, you cannot tell as of yet-through the AKC, there are private organizations that do this now however!-anything beyond whom is related to whom, but not what breed they are or are supposed to be. That's why your pedigree should match up when the DNA profiles are done. If not, then someone on the list is there that doesn't belong.

Make sense? You're both right and arguing about different things.

Thank You. I agree. If the original dogs were registered by just anyone, the pedigrees would not necessarily be credible. But coming from a long time breeder in good standing, you can be reasonably sure that the dogs are who the breeder says they are.

But the AKC did do extensive testing on all the parents and grandparents, not just the sire.

So when buying these dogs, it is more important than ever, that you thoroughly research the breeder.

[daisy mae06]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

Thank you. I can't wait to get my little girl.

I love your avatar. did you go to PetCo

Thank you . We did the santa paws at petsmart today and had a blast And the price was right and good charity too.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Raymond's Mom

I give up................................

Good Match

No hard feelings. ( I looked for a hand shake smilie but couldn't find one)

I hope this thread was educational and informative to all who have followed it.

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by Raymond's Mom

I do hope that you'll not affiliate yourselves with any of the lesser registries as they aren't credible or legitimate, they're just money making scams.

Wow...I'm sure alot of breeders with ties to the "lesser registries" as you so boldy describe them are feeling mighty offended that you've deemed their programs as "scams"...particularly when you know nothing about them.

There are scammers breeding in EVERY registry, including AKC and UKC...I've seen it first hand.

[Breezeaway]

Heres a site I saved when I was researching Aussies a few years ago on DNA It may help some to understand it.
Mythunderstanding DNA

[FlDebra]

Originally Posted by Breezeaway

Heres a site I saved when I was researching Aussies a few years ago on DNA It may help some to understand it.
Mythunderstanding DNA

Thanks for that link -- I think I understand the limits of DNA testing much better now.

[Alliec1]

I think what everyone is just trying to get at is how genetics work. I'll take a crack at it, as that is going to be my major and I am in AP biology.

First of all, I think calling partis 'mutts' is incredibly rude. Mutt implies cross breeding from other breeds- these animals are all yorkie. Some people are probably not understanding that the pari gene did not come from outbreeding with some other dog, such as a Maltese.

Now, for simplicity's sake(incredibly simplified, actually....), let's just say that a breed of dog has 2 genes that it carries that determine its color- black and blue. We'll call them BB for black, and bb for blue. Now, BB is the dominant trait..meaning that it will mask the bb trait if it is present at all in the genes. Possible combinations are BB= black dog, bb=blue dog, and Bb=black dog. If you breed a dog with BB genes to a dog with bb genes, you will always get black dogs, since the puppies recieve one half of their genes from either parent. If you breed a Bb and a BB, the same thing happens because B masks all b. Now, if you breed a Bb to a Bb, you have a 50% chance of the bb coming together to make a blue dog. And finally a bb to a bb will always give blue dogs because there is no B present to mask the b.

With the DNA testing, what the poster was trying to get was that DNA is unique. Sure, it currently will not tell you whether its owner is a Great Dane or a Yorkie, but the Great Dane will not have the same DNA as the Yorkie. It's like a fingerprint (pawprint! hehe) So, if you test all puppies, you can find out who what their parent's DNA is. By finding this DNA and comparing it to the DNA held by the supposed parent dogs, it is either a match or it is not. And, since DNA is usually traced back through a maternal lineage for both parentys, you can tell which dogs are related and which are not.

[FlDebra]

Originally Posted by Alliec1

Some people are probably not understanding that the pari gene did not come from outbreeding with some other dog, such as a Maltese.

I think that is still a question that is very much in debate. Sure the present owners/breeders may know that both parents are Yorkies but somewhere back in the line, there could have been a mistake. So, the DNA testing reveals the parents are verified, maybe even the grandparents, but there could be a cross-breeding mistake decades back in the line that is just now surfacing. The DNA testing does not verify that the parents or the grandparents do not have some mixed-genes themselves.

I know from looking at some Yorkies even with traditional colors that there were some mistakes back in the line somewhere. That is why it took me quite a while to find the puppies I did buy. If a Yorkie has a Schnauzer muzzle for instance, chances are great that somewhere, maybe several generations ago, a Schnauzer got into the room when it was not suppose to. Same thing with poodle coats and different body styles. So, it is not a stretch for me to think if the colors are not right (parti), then there was probably a dog with white, allowed to get cozy at the wrong time. Maybe all the puppies looked Yorkie and the breeder decided her planned breeding was all that "took." But somewhere down the line, suddenly white turns up. When it does, no one may even know about the old accident that was the cause.

I follow your genetics example but I don't think that is the way it would work with Yorkie's hair color -- even with my limited H.S. genetics background -- your example would only be for one solid color traits or something like blue eyes vs brown eyes -- not for the variation of color in coats we are talking about. You might want to read the example explaining the piebald traits listed at this site: http://members.aol.com/CYorkie/BiewerTriColor.html -- it seems to be more specific and makes some very clear deductions.

This is very interesting -- I think I could really get into studying the genetics of the breed. Weird, I know!