my yorkies are rare

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Raymond's Mom

The DNA testing to determine breed purity is new. I would expect that any testing that the two kennels you mention have done is for the frequently used sires program. As for the origin of the dogs that started the parti's in the US, from Gloria Lipman's breeding, there is no way to prove purity of those breedings.

Will YTCA become extinct if they don't embrace parti's....Of course not. New members are entrusted with the job of protecting our breed, not marketing it. And the new breeders take this obligation as seriously as the long time breeders.

The Biewer breeders should take note here. They have established stud books and have started to amass the information needed by AKC to have Biewer Terriers recognized. Those breeding parti's that originated here in the US need to be very careful. The mutts bred here may hinder the years of hard work that the Biewer breeders have put in.

Sorry tried to add to my last post but was over the time limit.

I have no idea who Gloria Lipman is, but I do know that extensive testing was done before the Akc registered these dogs and they are pure yorkies

The Biewers and the partis are basically the same dog, just from two different lines. But the parti gene exists in both lines ad that is what has caused the parti coloring.

[Raymond's Mom]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

No the DNA testing that was required in order to get these dogs registered was DNA testing to prove that the offspring came from the dam and sire that the they were claimed to have come from.

Every puppy in the litters were DNA tested and still are. If you want to register a litter of parti colored puppies, you have to have the parents and every puppy in the litter DNA'd. This is what they went through to get hese parti colored babies accepted by the AKC.

So if a parti colored puppy is AKC registered,f you can bet that it was DNA tested.

i have done my homeowrk on these puppies. I was not going to spend a lot of money to buy a dog that might have been half maltese. I went to the very origin of their existence, and bought from champion bloodlines.

The original breeders went to a lot of expense to get these dogs accepted by the AKC, and the AKC did not give in easily. It took many many generations of testing before they would register them.

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I'm not saying that this is the case here, but you could have a maltese sire and yorkie dam, DNA test both parents and the pups would be approved. All that testing does is prove who the sire and dam are, not what breed they are. So in the case of possible cross breeds, its usless. There is new testing that will hopefully be able to determine breeds involved. But it' won't help with cross breeds that for many generations have been bred back to purebred yorkies.

[daisy mae06]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

Here is a picture of Chachi's sire. His mother is a carrier, not a colored and Chachi is a carrier. I'm waiting for a colored girl.

he is beautiful Jeanie WOW.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by crystalsmom

In my humble opinion, I feel
FlDebra
Lorraine and
Goldenray
have brought up some very important points. They are darling but because there is a market $$ for them does not mean we should breed and possibly
jeopardize health.

There is no health issue here. these dogs are proven. And since they are closely related, the fhealth issues that other yorkies have may not even show up in this line unless someone mixes in a line with health issues.

I'd like to see the mixed breeding stopped anf only allow partis to be bred to other partis, before there health defects are bred in.

If they made them a separate breed, then people would not be able to mix them with other yorkies.

[kathy785]

Originally Posted by Lorraine

The size of the Biewer looks much bigger to me from the pictures, heavier dog, and coat does not look at all like the silk coat of a Yorkie. Head is very terrier much more so than the YOrkie of today.
JMO

The Biewer standard states 7 pounds and under. Yes, there are larger Biewers just as there are Standard yorkies. That is why my one male that I imported has been neutered and is looking for a pet home, he is just too big. We also have the opposite problem, with some of the dogs not getting big enough to breed. I have a tiny female that is just 2 pounds 13 oz at 7 months. She will probably never get big enough to breed. I will not intentionally breed the tinies. Will I occasionally get some in my litters? Without a doubt. Yes, the head of the Biewer is what the head of North American Yorkies use to look like. It is a terrier and should have a terrier head. The judges that have examined my dogs so far have commented on nice coats. It does seem that the Biewers have a bit more hair than the yorkies here, but that does not mean that they are not silk. So far the one litter that I have whelped here was sold mainly for pets, as less than half had the qualities that I though should be retained. I realize that I have much to learn about this breed, but I hope I can always put the welfare of the dogs and the breed first before the $$$

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Raymond's Mom

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I'm not saying that this is the case here, but you could have a maltese sire and yorkie dam, DNA test both parents and the pups would be approved. All that testing does is prove who the sire and dam are, not what breed they are. So in the case of possible cross breeds, its usless. There is new testing that will hopefully be able to determine breeds involved. But it' won't help with cross breeds that for many generations have been bred back to purebred yorkies.

If the sire is a registered yorkie and the dam is a registered yorkie and the DNA testing proves that these puppies came from this particulr sire and this particular dam then how could it possibly be a mixed breed. That was the purpose of the DNA testing. Plus the fact that these dogs came from reputable long time AKC registered breeders of show dogs.

These people did not just pop up out of the blue with these rare colored dogs and ask the Akc to register them. There has been a long on going relationship and they came from champion lines.

[kathy785]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

The Biewers and the partis are basically the same dog, just from two different lines. But the parti gene exists in both lines ad that is what has caused the parti coloring.

YES!!! Germany has just kept records and set forth standards for 20 years now. They all have only YORKIE heritage.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by kathy785

YES!!! Germany has just kept records and set forth standards for 20 years now. They all have only YORKIE heritage.

Well it may take 20 years for the partis to find their own space. But i don't believe they are going to go away. I am looking forward to being one of the early breeders of these dogs.

All breeds had to start somewhere, and I'm guessing that hundreds of years ago the batlle was just as great.

I'm going to try to find out how many breeds were registered 200 years ago as compared to today.

[Raymond's Mom]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

If the sire is a registered yorkie and the dam is a registered yorkie and the DNA testing proves that these puppies came from this particulr sire and this particular dam then how could it possibly be a mixed breed. That was the purpose of the DNA testing. Plus the fact that these dogs came from reputable long time AKC registered breeders of show dogs.

These people did not just pop up out of the blue with these rare colored dogs and ask the Akc to register them. There has been a long on going relationship and they came from champion lines.

The DNA from a Maltese or a Yorkie or a Great Dane looks the same on paper. Again, all the testing does is identify the parents, not the breeds from which they came.

And the mismarks DID just pop up out of the blue. The other rare colors that are being sold as rare are just genetic screw ups. The all gold, born blue, chocolate, etc. are either genetic defects (brown and born blue), thow backs or mutts.

I feel badly for those who do spend large amounts of money for a dog that are not either healty yorkies or even purebred yorkies.

[JeanieK]

Information on Biewers.

http://www.biewers.com/?gclid=CNaniI...FR1EWAodRSuhsw

I found this sitre, thought some of you might find it interesting.

So form reading this article, they are recognized as a breed separate from yorkies and can no longer be mixed with yorkies even though that is where they oiginated.

My guess is, the partis will eventually go the same route.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Raymond's Mom

The DNA from a Maltese or a Yorkie or a Great Dane looks the same on paper. Again, all the testing does is identify the parents, not the breeds from which they came.

And the mismarks DID just pop up out of the blue. The other rare colors that are being sold as rare are just genetic screw ups. The all gold, born blue, chocolate, etc. are either genetic defects (brown and born blue), thow backs or mutts.

I feel badly for those who do spend large amounts of money for a dog that are not either healty yorkies or even purebred yorkies.

How can the parent be a maltese if it is registered as a yorkie from a reputable AKC registerd show breeder?

I realise there are people who might register a maltese as a yorkie and then mix the two breeds, but these are long time show breeders and they did not just test one generation, they tested many generations.

I find it interesting that you feel the AKC is that irresponsible to just take anyones word for it.

They did not just pop up out of the blue. these breeders were established yorkie show breeders long before the the parti gene showed up.

Are you also then saying the same thing of the biewers?

Please do more in depth research before making such allegations.

[kathy785]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

So form reading this article, they are recognized as a breed separate from yorkies and can no longer be mixed with yorkies even though that is where they oiginated.

Biewers CAN be bred to a standard yorkie with permission from the registering club. Many Biewer owners feel this is not a good practice and will only breed Biewer to Biewer. This is one of the major disputes between some of the Biewer clubs in the USA. My question about breeding to traditional yorkies is this: Are we really wanting the smaller faces and other characteristics that have been bred for in the US? The bitch in my avatar is registered as a yorkie in Germany. She has a Biewer mother and a yorkie dad. She will have a 50/50 chance of Biewer puppies and yorkie puppies when bred to a Biewer male.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by daisy mae06

he is beautiful Jeanie WOW.

Thank you. I can't wait to get my little girl.

I love your avatar. did you go to PetCo

[Raymond's Mom]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

Information on Biewers.

http://www.biewers.com/?gclid=CNaniI...FR1EWAodRSuhsw

I found this sitre, thought some of you might find it interesting.

So form reading this article, they are recognized as a breed separate from yorkies and can no longer be mixed with yorkies even though that is where they oiginated.

My guess is, the partis will eventually go the same route.

You have a long road ahead of you but you need to unite with other parti breeders, find out from AKC or UKC how to establish your stud books, and get your records in order so you can become recognized as a breed. I do hope that you'll not affiliate yourselves with any of the lesser registries as they aren't credible or legitimate, they're just money making scams.

I only speak for myself, but this is what I hope for those that are interested in Biewers or Parti's. And it's not an easy task ahead of you. But as a yorkie breeder I wish you the best. Again, and I think I speak for many yorkie breeders, we only ask that you separate yourselves from the Yorkshire Terrier breed.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by kathy785

Biewers CAN be bred to a standard yorkie with permission from the registering club. Many Biewer owners feel this is not a good practice and will only breed Biewer to Biewer. This is one of the major disputes between some of the Biewer clubs in the USA. My question about breeding to traditional yorkies is this: Are we really wanting the smaller faces and other characteristics that have been bred for in the US? The bitch in my avatar is registered as a yorkie in Germany. She has a Biewer mother and a yorkie dad. She will have a 50/50 chance of Biewer puppies and yorkie puppies when bred to a Biewer male.

I can see where that would be an issue. And once it is registered as a breed of it's own perhaps it should no longer be mixed. In mixing you might end up breeding back in some of the health issues that have developed in the traditional yorkies.