I will say this though and maybe you will understand just like you perceive what my intent is when I said I didnt believe it I can also percieve what the op of that thread was and not believe them. Its no different its perception from 2 sides. If you have been on here long enough you can perceive if someones not telling the truth the same as someone else could perceive if someone is being rude no difference both are looking at someones intent[/QUO

Not saying I've never been part of the problem, but would like to be part of the solution.
Sometimes it's not what is said, but how it's said. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

I'm a better dog/animal owner now, than I was as a teen or young woman, even though my intent, love, respect for animals hasn't changed. We all start at a different place, with different levels of knowledge and experience.
A newbie coming here, especially with a pregnant dog, or dog in need....well we've all seen them never reply or return after some of the things they are told (some wouldn't return, no matter what, but some leave due to the way they are treated). We are all here because we love the dogs, to get the best for the dogs, By being respectful of the human, and at times of how we say things, we are more likely to effect change for the dog in question.
Yes we have different styles, some of us are more direct (I need to improve) , but sometimes walking on egg shells is needed, for the sake of the dog. Not saying somethings, not judging/condemning for the sake of the dog, we want to help.

It would be good, to have volunteers, I think. ie like some forums have to 'welcome' new members. To have a group, who offers help to new members with pregnant dogs. A group for new members with sick dogs. Not saying other members don't join in, but maybe it would help, with a situation we keep seeing repeated here.
People are more open to listening, if they feel you care.

And I disagree that walking on eggshells is ever appropriate. I think that again people are dictating posting styles. I believe in being direct and cutting to the chase. I don't have time to walk on eggshells. My way of "taking care of the human" is to tell them what I think they need to know for the sake of the dog. I don't judge them on their subsequebt action/inaction - that's for them to live with.

^^^ That pretty much sums it up. Yep.

I do wish "that could be that" and that was the end of it. But, we can see it didn't turn out that way. And on one hand maybe that's okay bc maybe people *have* to get this stuff OUT in order to move forward in a better way. I can only hope that the conflict in these recent pages could result in something positive such as that...paws crossed.

So, a lot of time was spent arguing intent and it seems there was a lot of sparring on who was right or the most right. And sometimes it's a matter of just passionately wanting to be understood correctly or as *exactly* how you meant it. I think we can all understand that last one. As for being right, I often ask myself "what's so great about being right anyway?" - it can be a very hollow little victory depending upon how you get there.

As far as intent, which started this rather perfect example of how conflict evolves at YT, here is what we know:

** Sometimes we can judge intent and be spot on
** And sometimes we're as wrong as can be

And that's about the extent of what we know of intent, unfortunately. That said - it's human nature, is it not, for us to infer some flavor of intent as we're reading someone's writing bc our brains are formulating meaning for us...so it's a little unavoidable to a certain degree. But, maybe we can all just try harder to not make gigantic leaps about intent.

Some people are asking about or making comments about suspensions, warnings, bannings etcetera. The reason these haven't happened yet is bc we're hoping this thread will serve some sort of purpose and have an effect. If it doesn't - and soon - and we see the same 'ol same 'ol on the boards at large, then we will be taking further action at that time. Just because you haven't been contacted via PM regarding your behavior and/or haven't been suspended, this doesn't mean you're not part of the problem.

I would just like to add....go back and look at the threads, really go back, some folks are concentrating only on the few negative...long...long....long....meaningless threads...it doesn't stand to reason that THEY ALL GO AWAY... many of them are still here, everyday there are more and more new threads. People come and go ALL THE TIME...for lots of reasons. But Those threads as Cathy described are the ones where they tend to go away....and everyone who posts on THOSE threads is then "guilty" from the one "sounding" harsh to the one screaming "harsh"...THOSE ARE THE THREADS....and really those threads involve interfamilial arguing...All in all those threads are far and few between, and often times those OP's are just pot stirrers etc., that's a fact.


There is a core group of YTers who are invested in YT for the long haul, and we consist of many many many different, views-opinions-training-experience-education etc....then there are those who come and go whether it be to just start their business, to get the info they need, or because they just want to stir us up.....


To say many don't stay is not a true statement, there are many many many new members posting right now.........right along with the dedicated core group. So this whole thing about chasing people away, well some of them should be, but MOST of them are not.

So it is better to tell them what a mistake they have made and all the horrible things that may happen to the dog. After the dog is already bred and to far to abort pups Rather then say okay it's done these are my concerns. And this is what you may want to do next The pregnant dog and sick pup threads I feel get very out of control fast. Every sick pup should in IMO be seen by a vet. But not everyone agrees are takes them right away. So if we can offer some help till they can get them to a vet. We are very blessed to have some very knowledeable help on this site. I do love yt But I think if we say what we want and then move on instead of always wanting the last word and feeling like we have to defend ourselves constantly Hope everyone has a great day

I don't think it's a matter of being right or needing a "hollow little victory" for some. I think it is about some people have very strong views and they are not likely to change those views. It is this unwavering from one's position that seems to get people really upset -- so if you don't agree with the opposite view, you're a bully in their eyes. I also think some members share very deep "core values" as Lisaly suggested....but, why are their values any less than the values of those who have different values. It cuts both ways....for everyone here, including me. I am fully cognizant that my posting style/personality may not mix with let's say someone like Lisaly who I see as having a totally different type of approach. I see that as a GOOD thing on the boards. I'm just sorry not everyone can view it this way. Perhaps the best way to resolve it IS for the moderator/admins to PM the offensive posters and discuss what the issue is and how that poster can improve.

:thumbup:

I think I've missed any and all drama around here lately. But, I just popped into this thread and only read the first and last page (so I'm probably missing a lot) but I definitely agree with this post.

I still remember when I first joined and how I felt. When I posted about my new puppy I was so excited about, one of the first replies was something alone the lines of "oh, normally puppies don't come home until 12 weeks" and I can remember thinking "Well GEEZ way to spoil my happiness!" and I was kind of upset about it, but once a bunch of other people came on wishing me well and excited for my puppy, I decided to stay. One of my second posts was about rib bones and how excited I was that Jackson liked them! A few worrisome replies honestly made me roll my eyes... like oh these overprotective people just don't know a dog is a dog.

NOW, of *course* I know these things were well intentioned and that I was the idiot, LOL, and I myself now try to give solid advice to newbies or people with questions. But I am just saying I still remember that feeling of only being here for a week or two and feeling very easily threatened in MY mind (even if it was stupid... and thankfully, I quickly learned). But I think of how much I *wouldn't* have learned or wouldn't know now if I decided to just not be a part of YT anymore because of a post that hurt my feelings. And honestly? Like I said, the reasons were extremely stupid, I had no reasons for feeling threatened really, but I did.

So no, I don't think we need to walk on egg shells to be a part of a forum. And we should be able to be honest, truthful and give advice. But I think sometimes we as animal lovers are so quick to judge because we love these animals so much that sometimes we forget about the humans behind the screen.

And like the post says above ^ I've loved animals since, well, since the day I was born (or at least can remember) and looking back, I cringe at some of the things we allowed to happen or let go with our previous pets. But we weren't abusive, the dogs lived happy lives for the most part, and we truly deeply loved them. A person who comes on here with a pregnant female who got impregnated by her neighbors poodle (random example, don't know if really happened) and doesn't believe in spaying/neutering and has 5 unaltered pets - are they "bad" pet owners or do they just not know any better? Immediately telling them 'GO GET THEM FIXED!' isn't going to solve the problem. It will probably just run them off and they'll continue living the way they are. I'm not saying act happy for them or fake your personality or lie or anything like that. Just maybe don't immediately jump to what we know as the obvious solution, but they may not.

I'm kind of rambling all over the place and honestly don't even know where this thread stems from sooo.... -steps out quietly-

:thumbup::thumbup: Totally agree. I am baffled by all of this. If so many people are running a campaign and the others are SO wrong, why not just be direct instead of this? I don't find this thread productive in any way. I think it merely is fueling some peoples' fire so to speak. To say that just because it has not been said does not help matters at all. Just being DIRECT is all I think needs to happen here. I would much rather it be done privately....just like I think all of the complainers should do it privately and stop policing threads. We all can be a part of something positive...but not on a thread like this. It solves nothing. Very sad that we need a principal so to speak, but I think that is the bottom line.

The only thing I have gotten out of this is that perhaps I should start complaining more when people attack me and others...because it DOES happen. I have pretty thick skin and don't run to momma but I think I may be handling this wrong. As has been said it takes two to tango.

I have tried very hard to avoid posting on this thread but to read and absorb the meaing of Ann's post BUT.... I have to agree with Cathy. Let Admin and the Mods do their job and be the judge of who is being harsh/rude.

I learned a long time ago to put on my "big girl panties" when it comes to the internet and smile from the wrist down (oh but trust me I am saying mean things to myself).

Remember we all have one thing in common, we love our dogs and probably everyone elses and we want what is best for them (in our opinion).

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

I believe it is possible to express oneself in a civil way without feeling like you are walking on eggshells. I have learned a lot through my experiences but that does not mean I know everything. Every dog is different and while there are general answers to some things most people who post here don't expect expert advice, they just want to hear what others have experienced.

Even if we had a professional Vet here, we could get another Vet that felt completely different about the way to handle things. Reputable breeders don't always agree on everything either.

While I am not part of the core group I can add to the discussion. I know some very valuable people have left because the drama got too intense. They don't make a scene, they just disappear and that is a shame.

It's not that hard to be kind even when you disagree.

I save my big girl panties for the hard things in life that I can't control.

I hear you in terms of having strong views and sticking to them, however, what we've been seeing here are views being shoved very rudely at times down people's throats -- and that's not helping anyone at all. It's one thing to have strong views and be direct -- there is NOTHING wrong with that. It's another thing to have strong views and be rude and badgering at the same time. That's what needs to stop on that front. I think that's what the posters with a less direct posting style are looking for...at least that's what we've heard and seen.

Now, on the flip side of things...what I'm hearing form the more direct posters is "please don't preach to me about my posting style". What the more direct posters are asking is that if one of their posts is seen as inappropriate, to please *just* report it, rather than telling another person how to post or that their post is rude. We're hearing that loud and clear. I think it's a fair request. That said, it's well within the rules to state an opinion such as "I think this thread is bordering on badgering this member and I'd like to see that tone change" -- a member is allowed to state that sort of opinion, whether we like it or not. But the request has been heard, very clearly, that people who find things offensive to please use the report icon.

I want to comment on another aspect of this subject that we've heard much about behind the scenes and that is when members are VERY clearly juuuuust riding the cusp of our rules here -- where they're just on the edge...not quite breaking rules, but very clearly getting as close as they intentionally can. We know when you're doing it, and you know when you're doing it. Going forward, if a member is clearly riding that edge -- the post will just be deleted, period, gone....and any/all educational info you shared will have to be rewritten. And if that sort of cusp-riding behavior accumulates - suspensions or bans will follow.

As for "why this thread" instead of private PMs - it's because this is a community problem, and the community deserves to know it's being addressed. And the members of the community deserve to have a voice about what's been happening and what they've been seeing...no matter where you land on the issues. When there is an outcry for action, the community needs to know we've heard it and are addressing it. It's a public matter, therefore, we want to be transparent.

EXACTLY. It's truly NOT difficult. :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

And if it is extremely difficult for someone, then perhaps that person does not belong on a board such as YT. There are other boards where anything goes, but that is never going to be this board.

RE the bolded item. IMO if someone posts a comment like that or similar to that, then we tend to get the back and forth - No I wasn't badgering or hectoring, but just stating my very strong opinion. I do strongly feel just hit the *report* post and then let the mods take care of it - one way or the other.

On another note; pointing out something obvious - that the measure of the strength or passion of your belief is not directly proportional to the strength of your voice sic ... here written word. Folks who post what some may refer to with a gentle style or namby pamby way, in no way means that their views are not deeply held.

We will never completely know any-ones' full story, no matter if they are a long time poster/member, or this is their first post. We don't know their backgrounds, experience levels (although we do infer that from the posters question to this forum)...we are even correct most of the time but not all of the time.

In terms of Breeder THreads I have copied what is the stickey placed in that forum here: As these threads often devolve especially with a first time breeder.
Hi everyone! I just wanted to post a reminder about why this section exists (or tell you for those that do not understand). It is for breeders (experienced and not) to share their experiences, learn from each other, help new members, and to have a place to talk about the lessons, joys, pain, heartache, and excitement of breeding yorkies! It is also for discussion on breeders and if you are not a breeder, you can also post questions for breeders here.

Please be respectful. This is a place for questions and experiences and if you do not like the thread or the topic that has been asked/started do not respond. It is quite that simple.

If you make a post that is off-topic it WILL be deleted. If you make a reply that is rude or a personal attack, you will be suspended and/or banned. The rules of Yorkietalk are just the same here, please remember them and if you have not reviewed them in awhile here is the link

What-ever your personal belief is about the breeding of Yorkies, and what challenges the breed has, the deed is often done. If you keep in mind the above guidelines when speaking to a newbie breeder maybe the newbies will stick around long enough to learn something that could really aid in their gals pregnancy delivery etc.

I think this thread is doing alot to help out. Usually we are having this discussion on someones thread and then the thread gets lost and nothings resolved. I am reading both sides and although we are probably not coming to an aggreement at least both sides are hearing each other and we are considering. Thank you Ann for jumping in here and giving clarification and acknowledging that you are hearing what both sides are really wanting from the other side. And thank you for leaving this thread open

Gosh, I swore I would stop posting here...move on but I thought of something else-
I guess what I probably dislike the most is when one assumes they are without ANY blame and additionally then assumes they are "modly" and then go on to post as though they are a mod, when infact - they are not....INSTEAD OF REPORTING THE POST/THREAD.

Also directly to Gemy you often refer to me as a nonbreeder, I've spoke many times on this here, I was a breeder, but like you I was NOT a Yorkie Breeder, I have experience, I have knowledge, I have education that I learned in the whelping box and here on YT I think I qualify to comment, ask etc., in that section right along side the Reputable and BYB breeders that currently do.

I also don't think the rules were meant to prevent any member from commenting in that section, if they are, then perhaps it should be locked down and only accessed via permissions????

I really wish this thread would get locked now with a final word from the MOD?????

I know I'm a newbie but have been a moderator on a very large and active board and poster on many different boards. In my experience the written word is always open to interpretation and so one constantly has to be conscience of perception and interpretation if you want your message to be really 'heard'. The other thing that I've learned is that it doesn't matter if you are right, if you shove something down someone's throat it just doesn't taste so good and just won't be swallowed. And last, because we are 'invisible' to one another we may not 'see' that someone is having an horrendous day and a little kindness may truly go a long way. This is really a terrific and informative place. Dialogue is such a wonderful thing but irresponsible dialogue makes people/posters retreat and that is a loss of their voice and their experience.

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thum bup::thumbup::thumbup:

Sorry Lynzy I promise to remember that you were a breeder. There was truly no insult intended. If I did insult you I apologize.

I think one large thing that bothers me is when people say you shouldn't post in the breeding section unless your a breeder. It's probably in my opinion pretty nasty thing to say because it's like saying you can't have any knowledge of breeding unless you have done it and I think that's wrong. I think someone can still have a lot of knowledge about breeding with out doing it. Obviously a breeder still has more knowledge but it dosent mean a non breeder dosent and that there information should not be shared. There are also a lot of people who go to the breeding section to ask about breeders and again I feel some of us non breeders who have been there and bought from the people with these red flags and know why there bad and why to not buy from them should share. People who buy from bad breeders or who are looking at buying from bad breeders should know what it's like from the prespective of a person who bought from a bad breeder and all the issues they have had because of it. I also think whether the dog has been bred or not it's never to late to educate because there will always be another time and there will be people who read it and go oh they had no problem breeding there dog I'm going to do the same with mine unless maybe some other information is posted to show the other readers it wasn't the best thing and why but it is about how you word it. I would like for a moderator or Admin to clarify maybe in the breeding section who can post there. Maybe even letting others know it's not ok to tell someone you should not post in this section because you are not a breeder. In my opinion that's like saying you should not post in sick and injured because you are not a vet. I also would like to see maybe a rule about not telling people they ran someone off I think it is hurtful, mean, most of the time not true, and just causes people to get defensive and causes issues. A lot of the time when a member does not come back after the first posts it is because they couldnt see the post after they posted, they expect an immediate answer, they forget about it, they don't understand message boards, or they just can't find it.

I wanted to comment on the breeders forum because it is so often pointed out when someone is a nonbreeder posting on their. I dont have experience with yorkies but I do with kittens and I have experience with fading kittens. Sometimes breeders arent around and a nonbreeder may be able to give a new breeder insight even if they dont have any experience but have read the breeders forum alot and know what a breeder would do in a circumstance. Sometimes theirs questions about a registry and a non breeder can answer. I quess what I am trying to say is just because someone is not a yorkie breeder dont assume to know what their experience is or if they are qualified to post their

:thumbup::thumbup: agree

I agree that sometimes the breeder section is used to post reviews about breeders. Of course that is not a breeding thread per say, but a review about a breeder.

No-one is saying here on this thread that a non-breeder can't post on a breeding thread. I merely copied and pasted the stickie on why the "breeders forum" was created.

I believe that everyone is welcomed to post there. But do keep in mind the purpose of that forum, is to share experiences, the joys and tribulations of breeding. Whether you should have bred this gal or not, is a moot point if indeed she has been bred. You might, and I might disagree with that breeding, and trust me oftentimes I do. But you can answer (if you know the answer) the question asked and then raise concerns if you so desire to.

When a person posts with joy their knowledge of their gal is pregnant, why not acknowledge that joy? And yes we all know the pitfalls of breeding. But is it not simple human kindness to say, wow I see that you are excited about this.... Such a big road you are on. Have you considered x/y or z?

Just my two cents on this

I had a request to clarify whether or not non-breeders are allowed to post in the Breeder section and the answer is, yes, they are allowed. If there is confusion over this, then we need to alter the rules in that section to read more clearly. :)

:thumbup::thumbup: Well said.

I totally agree with both of these statement and ALL of the above. There is so much good here on YT and most if not all of us mean well. Some just choose to go about it more aggressively thank others. Granted our views are clearly different and each of us go about stating them in very different ways which is great. That is until it gets personal and by that I mean "Tagging", using tags for your own person use and to discredit or in my eyes bully a person only because you disagree with their views and think that you know it all. I have had this happen to me and I was very taken back by the tags that were used to describe me. To the point that I seriously though about leaving. But No I was dammed if I would give this person and You know who you are the satisfaction of running me off ! This is something that has been in the back of my mind and until now I didn't feel comfortable bringing it up.

My Personal Experience: Several months ago I came across several threads where I stumbled upon tags and than went on a wild search in search of any and all tags where my name was associated with several bad terms used here on YT and quite frankly would be considers inappropriate in any forum or use of the words. I myself (My real name, YT username and my website) was tagged and I felt that the use of these certain tags had no other purpose other than to put me down or try to soil my good name. Which in my eyes was a form of bullying. Yes I said it, "bully" because when someone uses the term BRB in reference to my name or anyone else's on not just one but on several occasions on several different heated discussions mine and others just because they do not like or agree with what I or that person does is bullying to me. Correct me if you want but you will never change me feeling on this matter. I reported it and it was brought to my attention that is was clearly a personal attack. Reason being they were all done by the same person. So, yea... thats just one of my experiences with YT that have really made me wonder why anyone would take it upon themselves to do this and to target me ?

Lets face it None of you really know ME, and vise versa. You don't know what I do or what I stand for. Not have very few of you even taken the time to ask. I have been brought to tears and have been so hurt on many occasions in the past three or so years I have been a member all because someone figured they had me pegged as a BYB, a bad person, someone who was unworthy of their or anyone else's respect. Well that is your opinion any I guess by YT standards you and anyone else are entitled to your opinion but for myself my friends, family and those people who I have dealt with on a personal level they would have to disagree.

Ann: We discussed the thought of bringing this matter up so here it is. If you feel that this is not the right place to have this discussion, than please feel free to move it. Honestly, I feel that it needs some further review. Also if all of the members took the time to actually search their own threads and those where a heated discussion took place they may just find some of those inappropriate tags. Truly a very sad and disturbing use of tags if you ask me.

Thanks Ann.

I personally don't use tags much and think that some of them are so ridiculous. I think some people have NO idea what they are or how they work. I do agree that it seems some are quite spiteful. BUT you have to know that some of them are so unbelievably stupid and no one would be searching for the terms they add anyway. I shake my head at times and wonder who is doing it. Maybe they should be reported when they pop up.

I have often thought that they should be stopped. Just my two cents.