YorkieTalk.com Forums - Yorkshire Terrier Community - Everyone Please Read: Going Forward, We Must Post With More Respect Toward Others

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- - Everyone Please Read: Going Forward, We Must Post With More Respect Toward Others (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/general-yorkshire-terrier-discussion/277068-everyone-please-read-going-forward-we-must-post-more-respect-toward-others.html)

yorkietalkjilly

07-17-2014 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhetts_mama (Post 4466439)

You have no idea what someone's intent is. The best you have is your interpretation of their intent. And it's that interpretation that causes the strife.

Again, I have to disagree. You pretty well know when someone calls your post or position in a discussion "ridiculous" or "so ignorant I can't even process it" or or telling them they are a bad dog owner/breeder, don't love their dog, etc., clearly shows the intent of that poster to express themselves to the other member in a less than civil manner when there are other ways to respond with your own points of view just as vehemently but without any intent to disparage the other member. If someone tells me something I've just posted is "ridiculous", I pretty well know that other person has purposefully left the discussion and turned the thread toward a flat-out argument with me personally or they would have bothered to have replied in a more reasonable way.

yorkietalkjilly

07-17-2014 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ladyjane (Post 4466635)

Like I said, people should mind their own business. It's real simple to just report a post like the one you just used....and let the mods and/or admin handle it. The problem is NOT the person who said it....the real problem starts when others try to tell that person how wrong they are.

As for intent.....who cares what the intent is? Not something we should be judging constantly....I don't think we really know it .. not REALLY. People just think they do. Irregardless, what is it with people who chomp at the bit here to correct others?

Someone said this some time ago...I think it was Lynzy and it was great:

"Post and let post"......just like "Live and Let Live"

The intent to one-up or belittle another is usually what starts the arguments - and shouldn't really be part of any adult lively discussion. Just sticking to the points and keeping it real is all that's necessary. I'm the last one to stop a good debate but hate to see them turn into one-line zingers and hateful back-and-forth's that go on for pages. What is the good of that?

lisaly

07-17-2014 05:41 PM

I wholeheartedly agree with Jeanie. It's not difficult to figure out intent.

Ann and the administrators do a great job in creating a very positive atmosphere on YorkieTalk. I have no interest in policing or moderating here, but for those of us that have a vested interest in YT, who really care about this community, find it difficult to sit back and repeatedly see people hurt. I don't like seeing any discord, but I also find there are times that it's necessary to speak up for what we believe is right.

megansmomma

07-17-2014 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yorkietalkjilly (Post 4466618)

I heartily disagree. For example, someone posts something like "That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard and you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about and furthermore, don't ever post on my thread again!!!" about something someone else just posted, the intent of that poster to be nasty or ugly in their reply is pretty clear, at least to me. One can disagree with a another person's statements without being so disagreeable. The desire of a poster to one-up another poster or belittle them in some way usually starts the big problems on threads that drone on and on with zingers and put-downs and replies something like I've used as an example are usually how it starts.

First off, IMO this is inappropriate and shouldn't have been said in the first place because it is moderating a thread. It's like little kids shoving each other in the back of the minivan while on vacation. Poke, poke poke.....until mom and dad have to step in.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ladyjane (Post 4466635)

Like I said, people should mind their own business. It's real simple to just report a post like the one you just used....and let the mods and/or admin handle it. The problem is NOT the person who said it....the real problem starts when others try to tell that person how wrong they are.

As for intent.....who cares what the intent is? Not something we should be judging constantly....I don't think we really know it .. not REALLY. People just think they do. Irregardless, what is it with people who chomp at the bit here to correct others?

Someone said this some time ago...I think it was Lynzy and it was great:

"Post and let post"......just like "Live and Let Live"

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

I've reported posts before that I felt were out of line, inappropriate or even spam. Some were deleted and others were not. It's not our job to tell anyone how to post. If the mods or admin do not like something that is said they can decide for themselves what is acceptable and what is not.

107barney

07-17-2014 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lisaly (Post 4466664)

This is exactly the type of post that causes discord in my view. On the one hand you're commending the mods for the "positivity" of the forum yet on the other are suggesting that your perception of others being *hurt* requires you to speak up (polite police) against this crime. How about the feelings or hurt of the people you speak up against? They deserve admonishment from those who see themselves as being without any faults? Why not just report any post that breaks a rule or offer some thought of one's own instead of overstepping the mod, who as you said, does a great job without our help. I don't think anyone knows anyone else's intent. One cannot read a tone into a text unless one puts it there. I don't know why some feel it is necessary to speak up when the little triangle can be pushed and the moderator can fairly and competently use her real power to decide the fate. If one really cares about the YT community they should leave the police tasks to the authorities and only report crimes (broken rules) rather than nuisances (not enjoying someone's posting style).

lisaly

07-17-2014 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 107barney (Post 4466675)

You are inferring things from my post that you know little about and then use words like polite police. Being vesting in a community and caring about how people feel are important values for me; I won't infer what's important to you. One can have great knowledge but be ineffective at communicating it if people aren't able to feel support. You can post as you see fit, and I will post as I do within my own value system. If the moderators and administration have a problem with my posting, I will happily take their input to heart. Until then I will continue to speak up for those ideologies and people that I wish to support.

Rhetts_mama

07-17-2014 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lisaly (Post 4466692)

If people would adhere to that instead of taking it upon themselves to tell others how or what to post, much of the discord here would go away. The little triangle to the left is the best way to deal with posts you feel are out of bounds. A post deleted by the mods shuts down a spiraling thread much faster than telling someone they are rude or ineffective.

You also stated that Cathy inferred things from your post. Isn't that exactly what you are doing when you say that you can tell someone's intent?

107barney

07-17-2014 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lisaly (Post 4466692)

And nor do you know anything about me to infer what my values are. I will indeed continue to post as I seem fit, within the rules of YT, without telling others how to post or infer what their core values are. One can also have great knowledge AND be effective despite what others perceive that efficacy to be. I personally think that people can speak for themselves. I think more of people's capabilities than to believe that I should speak up for them. I would rather arm them with information and allow them to speak for themselves
"Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime." -- Chinese Proverb.

ladyjane

07-17-2014 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yorkietalkjilly (Post 4466640)

Sorry, but not buying this intent stuff. Too many people assume things and you simply cannot always tell what a person's intent is in the written word. None of us are mind readers and everyone has a different style.

I think it is time for people to start showing more respect and I don't mean the people who you all are thinking have ill intent. I think everyone here needs to think about it.....this is not a one way street here.

ladyjane

07-17-2014 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lisaly (Post 4466664)

Who are "those of us" ?? Do you think that only a few special people have a vested interest in YT?

While you are speaking of intent, let me just say that I think your intent in this post is to elevate yourself above others. I think that is exactly the root of the problem here and in any community. Different people with different ideas and never the twain shall meet.

ladyjane

07-17-2014 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhetts_mama (Post 4466697)

:yeahthat:

megansmomma

07-17-2014 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lisaly (Post 4466692)

Here we go with the intent......IMO you are have weaponized your words by inferring that your value system is at a higher level than 107Barney who you quoted. This has happened in the past with myself as well where you quoted myself and 107barney and said:

Quote:

You speak your mind and always advocate for dogs. I respect that.

I thought this was a forum that we should feel free to speak openly. I was not trying to be moderator; I was just telling you how I feel.

We are not in a courtroom where we have to discredit someone to make a point. This is forum with real people who have feelings. We all have different views, and it's great that we can share them here.

You may feel this is all a crock, and that's your opinion. I live by a different set of rules. You say you are attacked here, and I guess it happens to everyone. If it's happening often, did you ever stop to think about why?

Everyone makes mistakes, and I can forgive that. Not taking ownership for them and trying to make amends is different, though.

You don't need to listen to anything I am writing. I don't wish to moderate anyone, and I really don't want a response. I rarely speak up, but when I see someone getting hurt, it's difficult to sit back without saying a word. If it were me, I'd want to know if I hurt someone. Sometimes I do it unintentionally, and I'm always glad to find out so that I can talk through things with the person I hurt.

What do you personally know about my set of rules, Cathy's set of rule or anyone else's? What exactly makes you the judge of this so called "set of rules" that you keep referring that you live by that are different than others? :confused:

lisaly

07-17-2014 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ladyjane (Post 4466705)

You are incorrect about my intent. You will never find me saying I'm better than anyone else, because it's simply not true.

"Those of us" is a general statement. I couldn't answer any other way because it's anyone that's vested in this community.

ladyjane

07-17-2014 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lisaly (Post 4466715)

Well, you just proved what we have been saying....you cannot always tell a person's intent by reading their writings. I said that "I think" which is how your words were interpreted by ME, the person reading them. Now, what makes you think that if you read MY words, you know MY intent?

The way you used "those of us" sent me a message that you felt you were in an elite group that some of us may not be in.

Rhetts_mama

07-17-2014 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lisaly (Post 4466664)

Quote:

Originally Posted by lisaly (Post 4466715)

So , if its easy to judge intent, then am I to think that your statement about anyone vested in the community is meant to imply that those who post in a way you find objectionable are not vested in the YT community? The use of the term "those of us" also implies an "us against them" mentality.

Lilah Charm

07-17-2014 07:28 PM

I believe this thread was posted because the manner in which some people within the yt community have been responding within threads has been perceived by a large enough member base as rude and/or innapropriate that a moderator felt it necessary to step in and create this thread. If the tone and atmosphere within these dischorded threads weren't becoming consistently out of hand as perceived by a large enough portion of this community to cause a moderator response then I don't think this thread would exist. That said I don't see the value in tit for tatting the morals and manners as independently perceived by each member. The community spoke that the behavior was innapropriate, the moderator agreed there was a concern and posted a request to communicate in a more appropriate manner and to me, that seems that should be that.

megansmomma

07-17-2014 07:41 PM

Here is another example of this supposed "intent".

Quote:

Originally Posted by megansmomma View Post
That's exactly what I mean. MILLIONS of dogs are killed each year because of their irresponsible owners.

I don't see any snarky comments going on here. If you think offering the opinion that people are irresponsible and millions are animals are killed every year is snarky I don't know what to even say to that.

Gemy, don't take this wrong but as much as you advocate for this topic we all know how you had a Heartworm positive dog. The story is very sad but in the end it was owner failure by not properly giving the preventative.

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/our...s-prayers.html

Which brings me to the point of why EVERY pet owner should spay and neuter. When it becomes a matter of life and death it is then too late. Like I said in my first post, owners are not always responsible and the story of Zoey (I consider you very responsible) is just case in point.

I had no "ill intent" in my post. Yet YOU read some "intent" into my post. Then processed to scold me by your implied intent.

Quote:

Sorry, Jodi, this is such a low blow, and it's unacceptable to me, no matter how passionate you are. Reading this really hurt me, and it would have been the case, even if it wasn't written about such a dear friend. I guess getting your point across is more important than caring about the feelings of a highly respected, contributing member of our community. We are all infallible; I don't think anyone, including Gail, would disagree with this. She took full responsibility for Zoey's illness, and she has been vocal about it. With everything I know about Gail, I would trust my adored little girl with her anytime. Her love for her pups is truly admirable, and she epitomizes what it means to be a devoted pet owner. I am so grateful for everything she does to educate our board and to contribute to the "heart" to YT.

I believe I am a very responsible pet owner, yet I have made mistakes. We all have. I do everything I can to learn how to do the very best I can for my little one. I have spayed all of my Yorkies through the years, but I appreciate this research and all of the information shared. I hope posts like yours don't deter others from posting. I know you are passionate about dogs. So am I, but I believe it is beyond reproach to bring up something so hurtful. I love dogs, and I will strongly advocate for them, yet I also live by a code of ethics that respects the feelings of both people and animals. Gemy earned my respect long ago, and that respect deepened when she shared Zoey's story and advocated for heart worm prevention.

All I said was that mistakes happen to even responsible owners. My words were turned into something that was never said, meant or implied. You perceived my posts as an attack toward Gemy and it was not. Then proceeded to state the above which is filled with all types of intent if I wanted to apply it.

ladyjane

07-17-2014 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lilah Charm (Post 4466729)

Well, here we go with intent yet again. You think Ann's intent is different from what I think her intent is. I honestly believe that if she felt people were rude and inappropriate, she would tell them and/or suspend and/or ban them.

Note that she has encouraged this discussion. If she felt "that should be that" she would say so and make this a sticky and not allow posts on it.

megansmomma

07-17-2014 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yorkietalkjilly (Post 4466640)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lilah Charm (Post 4466729)

Personally, I felt this thread was started as a response to ALL MEMBERS of the YT community and not any particular "side". It should be taken in by EVERYONE and not some particular imaginary group of bullying members. If there were certain members that needed to be addressed directly then it would have been done.

My perception of what Ann posted was more like knock off the bickering kids and get along.

lisaly

07-17-2014 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by megansmomma (Post 4466736)

Here is another example of this supposed "intent".

I had no "ill intent" in my post. Yet YOU read some "intent" into my post. Then processed to scold me by your implied intent.

All I said was that mistakes happen to even responsible owners. My words were turned into something that was never said, meant or implied. You perceived my posts as an attack toward Gemy and it was not. Then proceeded to state the above which is filled with all types of intent if I wanted to apply it.

You quoted when I spoke up against what I perceived to be very wrong. I have not changed my view on that.

If you look back to my post, you will see that I said that I could not infer what Cathy's values are after saying she didn't know much about me.

I'm not going to respond further on my intent in tonight's post. You don't know me if you think I think I'm a member of an elite group. Although my intent was not to scold you the last time, I still find your post offensive.

JMuedog

07-17-2014 08:07 PM

This thread has turned into exactly what we're trying to stop. It has to stop.

This constant back and forth between groups of members is getting out of hand and completely distracting from the purpose of YT. Any educating/informing members are trying to get across is completely undone with this bickering. These arguments are not benefiting anyone.

EVERY member needs to start showing some compassion and respect. Look at yourself in the mirror. Ask yourselves if you want to be addressed in the way that you are addressing members. Take a good hard look at your posts, the tone of your posts, and ask yourself how it can be interpreted. No one can read your mind and know your inflection. We all can use some editing. If you think you can't, trust me YOU can!

ladyjane

07-17-2014 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMuedog (Post 4466752)

Totally agree with this, especially the last line. Reminds me of my son's hs track and field coach....there is no such word as "can't". And, on that note, I am headed to bed.

Peace folks. I believe I will go look in the mirror and go find something nice to say to someone on YT in the morning before I run out to the dog show.

megansmomma

07-17-2014 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ladyjane (Post 4466754)

I'm done too. I've got way too much on my plate right now to debate intent, inflections and moral compasses.

I looked in the mirror and I'm a wreck from dealing with real life today. Peace out :animal-pa

Rhetts_mama

07-17-2014 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ladyjane (Post 4466754)

Good night Linda. I'm looking forward to seeing more pics from the dog show.

AllDogBoots

07-17-2014 08:33 PM

I think Ann had good intentions starting this thread. But oh, the irony...

ladyjane

07-17-2014 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhetts_mama (Post 4466763)

Good night Linda. I'm looking forward to seeing more pics from the dog show.

Nite Donna....I need to remember to take more tomorrow! :)

107barney

07-17-2014 09:11 PM

I wish you all sweet dreams...

chachi

07-18-2014 01:49 AM

Look I said when someone said they can understand someones intent it was a statement that starts arguments and thats exactly what it did here. I just wish everyone would think about how they post and how to stop the arguments I think thats really whats needed and what I saw as the point of the thread

matese

07-18-2014 02:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chachi (Post 4466332)

Or when your words are taking out of context for example I told someone I dont believe you and that was changed by them to say I was calling them a liar. I would not call someone a liar and if I did I would expect to be suspended but I think it is okay to say I dont believe you about something if you really dont why do you need to go along like you do. I see things like this happen all the time on here

By telling someone you don't believe them, that is calling them a liar, you're just eliminating the "name calling word liar" . If some one says their father is a vet, and your reply is " I don't believe you" if that's not calling a person a liar, then what is it you're saying? You don't have to use the "word " liar, to call them one.

chachi

07-18-2014 02:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by matese (Post 4466815)

Actually I explained this many pages ago. When I say I dont believe you to . me it isnt about them or I would just say you are lying. It is about me I dont believe it. You can do the process of not believing alot of things like the moon is not made of cheese for example. I just dont see why saying I dont believe something is wrong am I supposed to go along like I do believe when I really truly dont just so I dont offend someone. This is an example of policing posts that gets me or other people upset. Im not telling you how not to post Im just trying to let you see how the other side gets upset. Even though it shouldnt be 2 sides just one forum anyway

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