Tail docking

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by hugz4all4

hmmm.. I dont do my own vax's my vet does.. two of my dogs cry out and flinch when being vaxed every single time. I had the choice to have my yorkie poodle mix tail docked or not, as I got him from friends and picked him out hours after he was born. The friend,took the pups at 3 days old, had the dew claws and tails done and said they never even cried out. SO I guess it just depends on the vets and the pain tolerance in dogs. Just like children/people. My oldest who is 12, hates shot and will react every time. My other 3 kids even as babies sat still and never cried for shots or blood draws and slept through ear piercings.
Both my toy poodle and yorkie mix have nubs that wag just like my 2 dogs with tails, lack of comminucation.. i think not..
Bottom line, if you want to follow the standard then the docked tail in yorkies is nessacary,(sp?) if you only want a pet then look for a breeder that will give you a choice or choose a dog breed that has a full tail, like the biewer..

I think what I posted should have been a bit more clear and maybe a bit exaggerated, in making the comparison......My pups don't really scream when I innoculate, but every once in a while I have one that wimpers (I'm an x-nurse, so I've learned how to give painless innoculations).

I agree if one wants a yorkie with a full tail, you just have to find a breeder that will offer you that choice. However, since most breeder's have tails docked between 3 and 5 days, you may have to get on a breeder's waiting list and make your request prior to a litter being born.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by Cerise

No attack here. Just stating the facts...the YTCA standard is a docked tail. Until the miraculous day that changes, the complaints about people docking tails, or complaints against people who love the tail docked on their Yorkies is worthless IMO.

Here's another food for thought. YTCA now holds Earth Dog Events during their Roving Nationals.......so, the yorkie is now going back to their roots on what they were bred for.......hunting vermin.....

[Britster]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Here's another food for thought. YTCA now holds Earth Dog Events during their Roving Nationals.......so, the yorkie is now going back to their roots on what they were bred for.......hunting vermin.....

Ohhh, where do they hold these kinds of things? I've heard of Earth Dog events, where can you find them? I have a feeling Jackson would LOVE to sniff out/chase a rat. He chases bunnies in the backyard all the time. I think it'd be fun to try it out.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by Britster

Ohhh, where do they hold these kinds of things? I've heard of Earth Dog events, where can you find them? I have a feeling Jackson would LOVE to sniff out/chase a rat. He chases bunnies in the backyard all the time. I think it'd be fun to try it out.

I'm pretty sure that they held one at the Roving National in Chicago, not sure about the one in Memphis.....But, it was sponsored by YTCA. The Roving National is usually held in a different location every year. This year it appears it will be held in Las Vegas in October.

YTCA is working with AKC to allow the Yorkie to have the ability to enter AKC Earth Dog events.

[tjdmom]

Oh gosh! I just wish sometimes in life there were easy answers!
I sit on the fence with this issue. I like yorkies with docked tails, I like yorkies with full tails. I don't really think it hurts that much and certainly not as much as some people seem to think on the other hand.... I don't like to see them hurt at all. But, when I was looking for a yorkie, I would not have even considered one if it came with a full tail...

[nsyorkies]

I heard about this on the radio this am. and thought about YT and the tailing docking and ear cropping controversy
Pierced 'Gothic Kittens' Seized


2:34pm UK, Friday December 19, 2008
Animal protection officers have seized "gothic kittens" with piercings which were being advertised for sale on the internet.



http://www.yorkietalk.com/sky-news/c...3/15187249.jpg The photo of 'Snarley Monster' which appears on the advert


The Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals removed three kittens and a cat from a home outside Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania.
"This is a first. It's unbelievable anybody would do this to kittens," animal protection officer Carol Morrison told the local Times Leader newspaper.
They were tipped off after a listing appeared on a website under the title "pure black, tailless, pierced, gothic kitten".
One of the defenceless creatures, named Snarley Monster, is shockingly described as "a three-month-old, floppy-eared, loveable kitten with a docked tail" in the advert.
The animal is pictured on the site with two 14-gauge ear piercings and a "submission ring" through the back of its neck.

http://www.yorkietalk.com/sky-news/c...3/15187253.jpg Ring on back of kitten's neck


The owner asked for offers over $400 for the kitten, the jewellery and a silk submission lead to clip onto the neck ring.
Ms Morrison said the kittens would be checked over by a vet before a decision is made on whether they will be placed in new homes.
The woman, who had a pet grooming business in the basement of her home, is expected to face charges.

[nsyorkies]

ooops! Sorry links do Not show pictures above!

[Reese1]

I see there are several threads now on tail docking.
I wish that people would have as much emotion and passion about
puppy mills, BYB, commercial breeders, etc..

Not that there is only one issue to resolve, but to me large business breeders trump other issues at this point!

[Woogie Man]

Since this thread started, I looked around on the net and there does seem to be a real effort to ban tail docking in America. I don't know how this would be accomplished as I can't see doing it state by state would be effective. After all, we have national breed clubs that set standards. It seems like pressuring vets and the AVMA is a tactic being used. I would hope that breed clubs of traditionally docked breeds would resist these efforts.

I find the whole issue to be a 'tempest in a teapot'. There are so many areas of animal welfare that truly deserve attention, notably the treatment of farm animals, especially those on factory farms. How we have gotten to the point of considering 'any' pain a companion animal may or may not experience to be cruelty while ignoring obvious institutionalized cruelty just boggles my mind.

I do think breeders and vets should be more careful when docking tails. If we are doing it for the breed standard, let's at least follow it. This is one area that we have complete control over and there should be no nubs. It's kind of ridiculous to dock for the breed standard and then ignore that standard, which in the case of the Yorkshire Terrier, is a tail docked to medium length. So please, no more nubs.

For anyone that's interested, here's a link to some info from the Council of Docked Breeds.

Tail docking information from the Council of Docked Breeds

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by Woogie Man

Since this thread started, I looked around on the net and there does seem to be a real effort to ban tail docking in America. I don't know how this would be accomplished as I can't see doing it state by state would be effective. After all, we have national breed clubs that set standards. It seems like pressuring vets and the AVMA is a tactic being used. I would hope that breed clubs of traditionally docked breeds would resist these efforts.

I find the whole issue to be a 'tempest in a teapot'. There are so many areas of animal welfare that truly deserve attention, notably the treatment of farm animals, especially those on factory farms. How we have gotten to the point of considering 'any' pain a companion animal may or may not experience to be cruelty while ignoring obvious institutionalized cruelty just boggles my mind.

I do think breeders and vets should be more careful when docking tails. If we are doing it for the breed standard, let's at least follow it. This is one area that we have complete control over and there should be no nubs. It's kind of ridiculous to dock for the breed standard and then ignore that standard, which in the case of the Yorkshire Terrier, is a tail docked to medium length. So please, no more nubs.

For anyone that's interested, here's a link to some info from the Council of Docked Breeds.

Tail docking information from the Council of Docked Breeds

Now nubs are my pet peeve too. I groom, mostly yorkies and they come in with all different tail lengths. One is so short had they gone anymore they could have injured her anal opening.......

Breeder/exhibitor's dock 1/4 to 1/2 inch into the black.......but, if you're going to dock, a better way to measure is to realize that you should take into consideration the size of the yorkie at adulthood. Not that difficult and taught to me by my repro vet.....you dock at the point the tail meets the vaginal opening or scrotum......that way the tail will be in proportion to the size of the dog.

[jencar98]

Originally Posted by Reese1

I see there are several threads now on tail docking.
I wish that people would have as much emotion and passion about
puppy mills, BYB, commercial breeders, etc..

Not that there is only one issue to resolve, but to me large business breeders trump other issues at this point!

Exactly! I would much rather see all of this energy and time focused on the real atrocities in the pet industry, and tail docking isn't one of them.

[Woogie Man]

That's good info on docking, Mary. I posted earlier that I have my vet go a little beyond where the tip of the brown meets the black on the tail's underside. He understands that and the results have been good. We had a conversation about this after an earlier litter where the tails, while not nubby, weren't long enough. I do like your explanation, though, but don't think I'll bring it up with my vet (it'll just confuse him and we're on the same page already LOL).

NO MORE NUBS NO MORE NUBS NO MORE NUBS

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by jencar98

Exactly! I would much rather see all of this energy and time focused on the real atrocities in the pet industry, and tail docking isn't one of them.

I tried to make that point in several of my posts regarding this but can't remember which thread it was in.....
I'm going to throw a wrench in the topic LOL....I wish more would worry about those that do not breed to standard and breed poor quality dogs just so the puppies they breed can line their pockets with cash. Or those that breed because I want just one litter so my children can experience the birthing of puppies, or my friends want a puppy out of my cute and pretty pet. Those are the dogs that suffer because ONE the breeder hasn't done their research and think it's easy and then they find out they've either lost the mother and or the puppies and can't understand why this is happening....This is what needs more attention and focus than whether or not docking should or should not be allowed. If it's been allowed within the parent clubs and have been done for many years and it hasn't been proven to hurt the breed health wise then it's not harming the breed. So much more to be passionate about than docking JMHO!!!!

Donna Bird

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by Woogie Man

That's good info on docking, Mary. I posted earlier that I have my vet go a little beyond where the tip of the brown meets the black on the tail's underside. He understands that and the results have been good. We had a conversation about this after an earlier litter where the tails, while not nubby, weren't long enough. I do like your explanation, though, but don't think I'll bring it up with my vet (it'll just confuse him and we're on the same page already LOL).

NO MORE NUBS NO MORE NUBS NO MORE NUBS

I was instructed on the how to by my vet and my mentor....in the beginning I used a white marker pen and measuring tape.....now it's just much easier to take their tail down and mark and the right point......

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Now nubs are my pet peeve too. I groom, mostly yorkies and they come in with all different tail lengths. One is so short had they gone anymore they could have injured her anal opening.......

Breeder/exhibitor's dock 1/4 to 1/2 inch into the black.......but, if you're going to dock, a better way to measure is to realize that you should take into consideration the size of the yorkie at adulthood. Not that difficult and taught to me by my repro vet.....you dock at the point the tail meets the vaginal opening or scrotum......that way the tail will be in proportion to the size of the dog.

I always dock about a 1/4 to 1/2 inch into the black just like Mary. I always show my vet where I want them docked and he will mark it where I tell him too and then proceed. I will learn how to do this myself so I know it will be done right. I just haven't had anyone show me how to dock yet.

Donna