Tail docking

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by MaddiesMommie

I certainly think this discussion is worthwhile. I feel ANYTHING that deals with my furkid is worthwhild treats, food, health, behavior, bed, clothing I read about it all.

I am sorry if this has been addressed previously, I sorta got lost in the thread as it split into many discussions. Assuming tail docking is as painful as some have expressed:
Is it practice to use anesthesia when docking tail? Will a vet if asked to?

I am really loving hearing (reading) thoughts on this. I have not given much thought to it before.

Well, Miss-Newly-1,000-Posts - it appears using, say, lidocaine isn't common practice, but it was mentioned (was it Jim?) you could request your vet to use it. So, it would be a local injection (like lidocaine for dentals).

I know some might think it's a hassle, but if lidocaine is safe, I'd strongly prefer to see it used to mitigate the pain, if docking is considered necessary. I would rather pay more to breeder, and have lidocaine used, than have it not used .

[livingdustmops]

Originally Posted by lladyon

I have a yorkie, purchased from a highly reputable and internationally well known breeder.

This breeder recently has decided not to continue docking the tales and it was the first litter from which I have purchased my dog.

I have no problems with cleanliness, injury or anything else. I am very very happy I have a dog without a docked tale. My feeling is it is an archaic practise, the benefits of which are unfounded and is a cruelty to animals.

I always smile at how expressive my yorkie's tale is; it is also reminiscent of a wild flower and never looks the same, always changing shape and waving in the wind. I cannot imagine him without it. He easily displays his emotions with it and holds it proudly upright. The only time it was ever down, was when he was ill. The tail is not difficult to care for; it has never been a hazard, it has never been stepped on nor injured in any way.

I highly support progressive changes in animal welfare and feel docking of tales should only be done when absolutely necessary such as required in certain medical/health situations.
Thank you for posting the article.

lladyon

Fabulous post and I hope you post pictures...love the tails....

[livingdustmops]

Originally Posted by MaddiesMommie

I certainly think this discussion is worthwhile. I feel ANYTHING that deals with my furkid is worthwhild treats, food, health, behavior, bed, clothing I read about it all.

I am sorry if this has been addressed previously, I sorta got lost in the thread as it split into many discussions. Assuming tail docking is as painful as some have expressed:
Is it practice to use anesthesia when docking tail? Will a vet if asked to?

I am really loving hearing (reading) thoughts on this. I have not given much thought to it before.

This is exactly what I am talking about...it is giving you food for thought and that is wonderful. Doesn't mean you have to agree or not but you are going to think about it...


Missy 1000 posts...

[sama_21]

I totally disagree with any amputation on animals for the sake of beauty. I see no beauty in it. God created them that way and they should be that way.

Amputation is insane!!!

[jencar98]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

Well, Miss-Newly-1,000-Posts - it appears using, say, lidocaine isn't common practice, but it was mentioned (was it Jim?) you could request your vet to use it. So, it would be a local injection (like lidocaine for dentals).

I know some might think it's a hassle, but if lidocaine is safe, I'd strongly prefer to see it used to mitigate the pain, if docking is considered necessary. I would rather pay more to breeder, and have lidocaine used, than have it not used .

IDK about lidocaine injections but if one were worried about the pain, I don't see why a topical numbing agent couldn't be used at least. You know, like the dentists uses before the needle?

[Woogie Man]

It wasn't me that mentioned using local anesthetics for dockings. My vet doesn't use any except in one case with a small one I had that went over the recommended window for doing it.

Here's a link to some info about tail dockings and pain. It is old research but don't hink it's been proven invalid. It is interesting to see how animals are classified by the author. I had never seen that perspective before.

Tail Docking - The Fritsch Report

[MaddiesMommie]

Originally Posted by Woogie Man

It wasn't me that mentioned using local anesthetics for dockings. My vet doesn't use any except in one case with a small one I had that went over the recommended window for doing it.

Here's a link to some info about tail dockings and pain. It is old research but don't hink it's been proven invalid. It is interesting to see how animals are classified by the author. I had never seen that perspective before.

Tail Docking - The Fritsch Report

Thanks so much for posting. Very interesting take on the issue.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by Woogie Man

It wasn't me that mentioned using local anesthetics for dockings. My vet doesn't use any except in one case with a small one I had that went over the recommended window for doing it.

Here's a link to some info about tail dockings and pain. It is old research but don't hink it's been proven invalid. It is interesting to see how animals are classified by the author. I had never seen that perspective before.

Tail Docking - The Fritsch Report

Great link, I read that before, but didn't save it, thanks for posting it.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by Britster

Well, me personally, would LOVE to see larger Yorkies. I think the standard should be upped to 10lbs. I think that'd be GREAT!

I really like how the Poodle has 3 different sizes. Because you get the same breed but in different size packages which is awesome.

I agree with you. I have a 16 pound yorkie and that size seems perfect for me I love the "teapots"

[livingdustmops]

Originally Posted by Woogie Man

It wasn't me that mentioned using local anesthetics for dockings. My vet doesn't use any except in one case with a small one I had that went over the recommended window for doing it.

Here's a link to some info about tail dockings and pain. It is old research but don't hink it's been proven invalid. It is interesting to see how animals are classified by the author. I had never seen that perspective before.

Tail Docking - The Fritsch Report

What I have problem with in understanding is other breeds with the same type tail is not having breakage (Biewers, Maltese,etc)..Also we talk about the dew-claws on you have to leave them on Great Pyrenees and most of them are outdoor going through more brush them a yorkie..

American Kennel Club - Great Pyrenees

Forequarters
Shoulders--The shoulders are well laid back, well muscled, and lie close to the body. The upper arm meets the shoulder blade at approximately a right angle. The upper arm angles backward from the point of the shoulder to the elbow and is never perpendicular to the ground. The length of the shoulder blade and the upper arm is approximately equal. The height from the ground to the elbow appears approximately equal to the height from the elbow to the withers. Forelegs--The legs are of sufficient bone and muscle to provide a balance with the frame. The elbows are close to the body and point directly to the rear when standing and gaiting. The forelegs, when viewed from the side, are located directly under the withers and are straight and vertical to the ground. The elbows, when viewed from the front, are set in a straight line from the point of shoulder to the wrist. Front pasterns are strong and flexible. Each foreleg carries a single dewclaw. Front Feet--Rounded, close-cupped, well padded, toes well arched.

Hindquarters
The angulation of the hindquarters is similar in degree to that of the forequarters. Thighs--Strongly muscular upper thighs extend from the pelvis at right angles. The upper thigh is the same length as the lower thigh, creating moderate stifle joint angulation when viewed in profile. The rear pastern (metatarsus) is of medium length and perpendicular to the ground as the dog stands naturally. This produces a moderate degree of angulation in the hock joint, when viewed from the side. The hindquarters from the hip to the rear pastern are straight and parallel, as viewed from the rear. The rear legs are of sufficient bone and muscle to provide a balance with the frame. Double dewclaws are located on each rear leg. Rear Feet--The rear feet have a structural tendency to toe out slightly. This breed characteristic is not to be confused with cow-hocks. The rear feet, like the forefeet, are rounded, close-cupped, well padded with toes well arched. Fault--Absence of double dewclaws on each rear leg.


I think just about anything can be justified except ear cropping but maybe someone can justify that...I don't know.

[friscomom]

2 questions:
If a breeder decides to leave tails undocked, and the pups don't sell, what happens to them?

Why can't the dockers be the ones who have to special order a docking? Why should all the animals have to be subjected to this if only one or two are expected to be put in the shows where (even though they don't have to) they are pressured to conform to tail docking convention, or one or two 'like it that way'? My guess is that professional yorkie people intent on winning these contests or recovering their investment really must wait to see the litter develop before they can make a good guess as to a winner. Is it for the sake of these few that all the animals are subjected, or is docking preference truly a majority?

I'd be curious to see a sampling of the general public, as to what percent know that yorkies, poodles, etc. and the rest, are born with tails which are cut or twisted off. When did you guys learn about these things?

[Cerise]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

Can we stick to discussing the actual topic please?

For those who think this topic isn't worthwhile, there are a bunch of other topics here. Please don't post in this thread to just tell people that this discussion isn't worthy, those posts will be deleted going forward.

I posted a while ago about a puppy mill seizure, it's had 12 views, no replies...so...where's that puppy mill passion? Sorry, yeah, I'm confused today folks...

Okay...I apologize for my other post of the worthless comment.

I just meant that... thinking a Yorkie owner (or breeder) who believes it's acceptable to dock tails, is a bad thing and out of touch...is being judgemental, hypocritical and disrespectful to the YTCA and the many breeders who have worked so hard to create the beautiful healthy Yorkie that the original OP and others like her covet. Even if it is some are a mixed designer version, or poorly bred, or with a non standard appearance...they still covet the Yorkshire Terrier. I think the reason most of us are on YT is to connect with others that love the Yorkie, and to support each other and learn.

[Cerise]

Originally Posted by mommadog1

People are not complaining, we are/were having a nice discussion about the practice of it. And there you go again by saying us talking about it is worthless.

I think I am going to have to walk away from this discussion have a great weekend..

I said the complaints against people who love the docked tail... probably should use the the phrase "towards people who love the docked tail"

Please stop and don't walk away. I wasn't trying to insult you or anyone.

[mommadog1]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

Well, Miss-Newly-1,000-Posts - it appears using, say, lidocaine isn't common practice, but it was mentioned (was it Jim?) you could request your vet to use it. So, it would be a local injection (like lidocaine for dentals).

I know some might think it's a hassle, but if lidocaine is safe, I'd strongly prefer to see it used to mitigate the pain, if docking is considered necessary. I would rather pay more to breeder, and have lidocaine used, than have it not used .

That was moi

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by livingdustmops

What I have problem with in understanding is other breeds with the same type tail is not having breakage (Biewers, Maltese,etc)...

The link that Jim posted says, " It is also recommended to dock the tails in breeds which have long thin, weak and sparsely coated tails, in order to avoid later sickness and damage."

I'm not sure the Biewer has the exact tail type as the Yorkie, they seem to be a little bigger boned, isn't it possible that when Mr. Biewer was breeding, he selectively chose those dogs with a certain tail structure, or length? Concerning Matese, don't their tails curl up and out of the way? I've seen pictures of yorkies, (not show dogs) whose tails were quite long and dragging behind them, just seems like it would be so easy to step on them.