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Old 06-13-2014, 03:44 PM   #1
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Default Question about bottle fed babies from mama who had c-section

I have a couple questions…

My yorkie Tink had to have an emergency c-section yesterday because her pups were to big. She had 5 pups but 1 had died I elected to have her spayed at the same time.

Anywho we now have 4 babies who got colostrum from her at first but now her milk is drying up due to the spaying.

My question is feeding tips PLEASE! They are very alert and have a great suck reflex. What is the best kind of milk to fed them? Vet said every 2 hours but when I have been checking on them they haven't really wanted the bottle and tummies are nice and round still. How do I know they have had enough?

Then as far as elimination I have just been rubbing and they pee like crazy lol. I haven't seen poop yet. How often do I do this? Any tips?

I have bottle fed a couple other pups before another litter but my mama would clean them like crazy. This time mama isn't cleaning them at all.

So any tips much appreciated!!

Vet gave me weights as 146, 163, 106, 109. Is that mg ha ha?

Any tips MUCH appreciated. Also any c-section tips for my mama

I actually have another litter due to arrive in the next week and was planning on letting them feed off that mama. Just rotate half and half at different times.
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Old 06-13-2014, 06:06 PM   #2
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I have no advice on a proper formula for puppies (others here will) but I think that there's more to it than milk and they should be fed every two hours around the clock -- just like your vet said. They have very little in the way of reserves and they really must eat every two hours. I also question the ability of your other mom to be to nurse two litters at the same time. It's setting her up for eclampsia. What will you do if mom#2 also can't nurse? I certainly hope you are able to be at home 24/7 for the next month or more because these mommas and babies are really going to be depending on you.
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Old 06-13-2014, 06:38 PM   #3
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There is more to it then feeding them? Like my vet said? I don't understand why the tone of your message starts off positive and then gets really negative. I am home 24/7 thanks and I have A LOT of help. That isn't an issue. I had an eye on my dog and when I noticed she was not laboring puppies we took her to the vet asap. They did x-ray and saw that the puppies weren't going to come out because of the size. I had already been to vet the week before. I'm not asking for negativity I'm asking for advice or TIPS.

I'm going to be feeding the puppies as I already have been as well as keeping them warm, feeding off mom and keeping her needs met after her having surgery. Having my other dog help with some feedings is what I was asking about depending on size of her litter of course. I'm aware of the calcium issues.

If anyone has experience with any of these things I'm looking for tips. I can google all of this info as well as ask my vet (which I have been doing) but I was on here for experts in this specific breed.
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Old 06-14-2014, 04:10 PM   #4
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I have no idea if "OwnedbyJezebel" is a breeder, but I can assure you her concerns are right on target. She was not being negative to you....she is informing you of a very real concern you may be facing in a very short time. I would suggest you feed this new litter a formula that I use on any pups that need assistance. Are you an experienced breeder? You should be weighing those babies at least twice a day, to monitor exactly where they are, nourishment wise. They should be gaining weight every time you weigh them. The formula I use delivers 14-16 calories/cc....puppies NEED the calories in order to thrive, and you need to feed them every 2 hours around the clock. Your female SHOULD have milk come in regardless of the c-section....I have never had a female that dried up due to a c-section...they were sore, a few had to get used to the idea of feeding babies, but you keep the babies in there with momma and let them suck....it will cause the milk to drop....watch momma to be sure she doesnt reject them....if she wants nothing to do with them after a week, YOU are now momma! The formula I use:
8 oz Just Born
4 oz Pedialyte
1 raw egg yolk
3 tbsp Dr.Millers Pet Nutra Drops (May substitute 3 tbsp Karo syrup + 3 tbsp Vi-Daylin pedi vitamins)
1 cup live culture yogurt (can use Kefir milk)
Mix all this together, allow all bubbles to disappear before feeding, and store in frige for a week.
Feed warmed, every 2 hours....must feed 1cc per oz of pups weight, every 2 hours, around the clock. All the help you have available to you at home is going to be needed.....especially when the next litter is born. If you DO put these additional babies on momma #2, and she takes them and does not kill them, you MUST make certain you are giving her calcium in order to prevent eclampsia....you hopefully have Oral Cal Plus, which is a chicken flavored paste, that you can give momma per directions on the dispenser, to keep from her having eclampsia. If this all goes south on you, learn how to tube feed, because you will be feeding a bushel of puppies! These are the FACTS, not negativity! It is help you asked for....

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Old 06-14-2014, 11:20 PM   #5
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We are going into their 4th day and I'm bottle feeding every 2 hours around the clock. My dog doesn't have milk anymore because she was also spayed at the time of c-section so they said that it would dry up due to the hormone not giving the go to make it.

I have decided to keep the two dog completely separate. My other dog showed aggression when I got home with the pups and my other mama which is never does. So I will continue to bottle feed.

I have had 3 other litters and have dealt with fading puppies and around the clock feedings. I'm not an expert and this time has really been far different. Everything that could go wrong has with my one mama. Hence the spay. I'm just trying to get through the next two weeks fattening up puppies.

The problem I'm having is my mama is not wanting to take a break from the pups and getting very worn out. So I have to make her take breaks. She is panting a lot but only when sitting with the puppies. I'm not sure if she is overheating or in pain or both.

The other puppies aren't here yet but this mom is the one that has had other litters and she is a great mom. Her last litter was 8 but 2 were very weak and died from fading puppy syndrome. Two others were going as well and fed them around the clock.
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Old 06-15-2014, 12:45 AM   #6
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If this momma is a great mom, she is stressing out over her babies, and is probably in pain too. Did your vet give her pain med to take? I have always given mine a little Torbutrol in Vitamino every 4-6 hours....she needs something for the pain and since you say she is drying up and not nursing pups, you dont have to worry about the babies getting the pain med. I would bottle feed the babies as long as they are strong enough to suckle and not aspirate...monitor the weight twice a day so you know where you stand.....start tube feeding the minute the babies start to decline.....and I would put the babies with momma and let her bond with them....I am not sure what she is possibly doing that makes it look like she is "over working herself". I would feed babies and then let this "great mmma" do what she knows very well how to do.....and medicate her for her pain....

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Old 06-15-2014, 12:01 PM   #7
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The babies are still sucking off of her and she is cleaning them and keeping them warm. I think that is overwhelms her with the pain. She is on that med but every 12 hours. I just did weights and the first weights a couple days ago from vet are 106g, 109g, 146g, 163g and the weights today are 110g, 120g, 170g, 198g. So they are going up which makes me happy. All the puppies are very strong even the tiny one. They were nothing like my faders in my last litter.

I think my mama is working to hard after major surgery so I just take her out and tell her to lay down. She sits until she is breathing normal again. Or I will give her some can food and nutri-cal.

We go to vet tomorrow for docking so I will have a list of questions. I have been doing the pee eliminations but I haven't seen a poop. However with the mama licking so much I think she is doing some of it. I have seen poops in the bedding.

Do you have any tricks for poop elimination?
Getting the pain pill down the throat of my Tink has been a fun task. She spits it out over and over even when I get it down deep in her throat.

I appreciate all the feedback it just helps when people know the breed. Its not a regular puppy they're tiny.

Thanks
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Old 06-15-2014, 05:37 PM   #8
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That is why I mentioned the Torbutrol in Vitamino....that is a liquid and my ladies all take it without hesitation, and it never makes them vomit......it is given 1/2cc, 3-4 times a day.....that dosage is for a 5-6 lb female. If I were you, I would request the liqiud Torbutrol in Vitamino, and ask if the dosage times can be increased in order to be effective at relieving her pain. She is doing the pooping clean up for you, so no need to worry there.....she is doing what all mommas do, great mommas, that is! Let her do her thing...once you get that pain med adjusted for effectiveness, she will also relax some, and not be so "wound up". Pups are gaining weight OK....
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Old 06-15-2014, 06:16 PM   #9
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Liquid would be much better! So would throughout. It seems like she has a certain few hours she feels great and then the rest she is just ok or feeling overwhelmed.

Thats good about the poop thing I was getting freaked out. I'm glad I'm going to vet tomorrow I will be asking 101 questions. Hopefully I will be able to adjust the meds as well. It the vet I always go to however they have rotating Drs. and the one I got the day she needed the c-section was anti-breeder. So she hasn't been very easy to work with. Tomorrow I will be seeing the owner and he is great.

I have a bigger pup that is a whiner. He is the one that loves to eat off of his mama but then he seems to not want to drink from the bottle. I have to sit with him longer then the others because he is a pain lol. Then I have the tiny tiny one who eats too fast and feels like he could sit and eat all day if you let him. So its been an interesting balance. I'm very tired but I realize that this is just a moment in time and once we pull them through the next few weeks we will be home free.

I have a lot of people wanting to help but I don't really trust anyone but my self to look for all the things that are needed when feeding them. I have a routine going so I'm just doing it and my family is holding down the fort.

Again I appreciate all the info. The boy that was the stud was a pound and a half smaller then her and she is small 4.5lbs so I'm not sure how to heck she had 5 puppies inside her.
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Old 06-16-2014, 10:52 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by VegasYorkieMama View Post
Liquid would be much better! So would throughout. It seems like she has a certain few hours she feels great and then the rest she is just ok or feeling overwhelmed.

Thats good about the poop thing I was getting freaked out. I'm glad I'm going to vet tomorrow I will be asking 101 questions. Hopefully I will be able to adjust the meds as well. It the vet I always go to however they have rotating Drs. and the one I got the day she needed the c-section was anti-breeder. So she hasn't been very easy to work with. Tomorrow I will be seeing the owner and he is great.

I have a bigger pup that is a whiner. He is the one that loves to eat off of his mama but then he seems to not want to drink from the bottle. I have to sit with him longer then the others because he is a pain lol. Then I have the tiny tiny one who eats too fast and feels like he could sit and eat all day if you let him. So its been an interesting balance. I'm very tired but I realize that this is just a moment in time and once we pull them through the next few weeks we will be home free.

I have a lot of people wanting to help but I don't really trust anyone but my self to look for all the things that are needed when feeding them. I have a routine going so I'm just doing it and my family is holding down the fort.

Again I appreciate all the info. is small 4.5lbs so I'm not sure how to heck she had 5 puppies inside her.The boy that was the stud was a pound and a half smaller then her and she
The eating differences.....with another litter on the way, with unknown results (hopefully there will be NO issues!), this is exactly why I tube feed these babies. You deliver the exact amount the pup needs, it is very quick, enabling you to get an entire litter tube fed within 5-7 minutes, and back in with momma. After you learn to tube feed, it is actually much safer than bottle feeding, avoiding the risk of puppy eating too fast and aspirating. It puts NO effort to nurse on the weaker pups, and it is a precise delivery of known calories for growing babies. As far as size of the parents.....that have very little to actually do with what this litter will be.....it is the PEDIGREE, the lines behind your breeding pair, that determines what these babies will look like, size, personality, etc.....and that involves many more generations back than the three you get with the AKC. Knowing what is behind your breeding pair, enables you to have a very educated guesstimation of what you are going to be producing in that litter.
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Old 06-16-2014, 06:26 PM   #11
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We got tails docked today and dew claws removed. We just weighed the pups again and they all have gone up another ounce or a little more since yesterday.

It seems that she might have milk. The one vet that did the c-section and spay said absolutely not that her milk would dry up. Then today the vet (this time owner same clinic) said she absolutely can have milk. Now I'm all confused. They eat off of her and my biggest one hardly bottle feeds.

Now the question that I forgot to ask was if she does have milk is her pain meds going to babies?

The stud does AKC shows and has champion bloodlines. I haven't fully looked at the paperwork though.

Today we hit day 59 for my other dogs pregnancy. Crossing my fingers all goes well. She is a lot larger like double the weight of my other dog, has had litters before and we used same tiny stud. So will see.
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Old 06-16-2014, 08:23 PM   #12
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We got tails docked today and dew claws removed. We just weighed the pups again and they all have gone up another ounce or a little more since yesterday.

It seems that she might have milk. The one vet that did the c-section and spay said absolutely not that her milk would dry up. Then today the vet (this time owner same clinic) said she absolutely can have milk.
Now I'm all confused. They eat off of her and my biggest one hardly bottle feeds.

Now the question that I forgot to ask was if she does have milk is her pain meds going to babies?

The stud does AKC shows and has champion bloodlines. I haven't fully looked at the paperwork though.

Today we hit day 59 for my other dogs pregnancy. Crossing my fingers all goes well. She is a lot larger like double the weight of my other dog, has had litters before and we used same tiny stud. So will see.
I was so hoping you would see momma producing milk....all my c-sections have nursed babies, even ones that have been emergently spayed at the time the c-section was done.....what that vet told you was not correct, and that is why you need a vet that is knowledgable about small dogs, Yorkies in particular, especially where breeding and whelping is concerned.....but I was not going to argue that point....you would see soon enough with those babies nursing on momma, her milk would indeed come down! The babies will not be affected by the 1/2 - 1cc of Torbutrol every 4-6 hours....it has never bothered/sedated/made sick any of my babies....they will be fine! Good luck with momma #2 and kiddos!!!
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Old 06-18-2014, 12:46 PM   #13
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So the last couple days have been crazy. My Tink was doing great but then she stopped eating. This is VERY unusual for her. She was also acting strange trying to pee like she was marking her territory. Panting still, very limp feeling after feeding babies. Just other weird stuff that wasn't like her. So I brought her to vet last night. I NEED TO FIND A NEW VET but its been one thing after another and they're open late. It was 7pm when I took her in. She ended up having high WBC and very low calcium. So they watched her through the night. But even they seemed like they didn't know that much about it all. She is now stable but staying another night.

NOW this morning my other dog Lily went into labor (she has had a couple other litters). It was around 6:30am she had them naturally a total of 6 puppies. OY VEY she is a bigger yorkie and her last litter was 8. She cleaned them all up on her own and is feeding them. However now she is panting a lot. I brought her some food and water which she ate and drank.

I'm thinking about giving her calcium and I need to make up some of that welping pudding.

Currently trying to do that while finding a new vet like asap. For docking, spaying her and checking ups.
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Old 06-18-2014, 01:02 PM   #14
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That calcium paste, Oral Cal Plus, which I mentioned in first post, will correct a calcium level almost immediately and is absolutely necessary to have on hand....especially with the size of litters your other momma is having. You have the other momma with sounds pre eclamptic....you need to get some of that Oral Cal Plus NOW....it is chicken flavored and they do not vomit it up as easily as they do with the other emergent oral calcuim supplements. I always have blood work done so I have a baseline on calcium levels, Hb/Hct, ........watch these calcium levels on these mommas....you will get into a real issue if you end up rushing them to ER, seizing.....glad you are looking for another vet....you really do need one!....lots of questionable information given by these vets to you....I would be really worried about my momma staying in their care!
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Old 06-18-2014, 01:28 PM   #15
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Is the calcium paste your talking about nutracal or is that something different? I called to pet store and they said they don't sell calcium tabs.
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