Hearbroken, Devastated, Scared - New Puppy

[MyBabyFynnlie]

Originally Posted by AllDogBoots

he had Canina Coronavirus Vaccine, Distemper, ParaInfluenza - Parvo.

The breeder just emailed me that she will NOT take him back but will give me a replacement. She feels that something happened to him while in my care. I'm not ready yet to disclose who this is and everything that has been said, but am prepared to do so if necessary.

A rescue? Dear God. I can give him the medical attention he needs I think. It looks right now that I will have to take care of him no matter what the results are. I certainly don't think that I should be putting him to sleep (as per the breeder).

Put him to SLEEP!? Because he's sick! And she failed to tell you that it could happen!? You've had him for, what, five days? HOW would something as active as this because in five days? I'd be marching my butt right up to her door and SHOWING her what happens with him. *deep breath* I am so sorry for you and Max. I can NOT imagine this happening. I just can't.

Don't fret too much, though. Take things one step at a time. You have to be calm and strong for him. I have faith in you and him. I know you'll be a good mommy. You can do this!

[AllDogBoots]

Originally Posted by Rhetts_mama

ADB- don't let your mind run that far ahead yet. You'll drive yourself crazy with worry and it won't do you or Max any good.

Just take a deep breath, give Max a cuddle (if you can stop him from playing for a second) and focus on what's happening right now.

Wait to see what happens with the blood work, then go from there.

It's already very clear that you love Max and consider him part of your family. So try to stay focused on him and not what someone else is doing/saying or not. You can deal with them later.

I started my company because I care about the well being of dogs. I hate to be so personal in a dog forum but I feel I have to for my own health. I am a total wreck. Part of me wants to take money out of my retirement fund and just give him the best care possible. Another part of me wants to ring the breeder's doorbell and drop him off at the front door.

i am so confused. i will wait for test results however i cannot stop worrying in the meantime.

i thank everyone immensely for their support.

[Woogie Man]

I'm hesitant to post as I've never had to deal with such issues. A couple of things do come to mind, however.

You are in a wait and see mode right now waiting on results. It seems like a big coincidence that the symptoms arose only a day after giving the Sentinel. It may be that, a liver or neurological issue or a combination of any of these.

One thing I was wondering is if milk thistle could be given to de-toxify the liver. If it is either LS or a reaction to the Sentinel, it would seem to be something that could be done and you might see some positive results. I found this info....

"Milk thistle protects the liver against drugs and heavy metals. It also activates protein synthesis. If liver cells are dead or damaged due to illness or toxic exposure, milk thistle will activate the growth of new cells. Liver issues that can be treated with milk thistle include hepatitis, cholangitis, pericholangitis and hepatic lipidosis.

Other uses for milk thistle are as an anti-oxidant and anti-inflammatory supplement. It can also be used to treat gallstones and inflammatory bowel disease.

Milk thistle taken after a drug regime may protect your dog's liver against damage from chemicals. This can include chemicals taken for treatment of illness or even vaccinations or heartworm, tick and flea preventative applications."

From this source.... Milk Thistle Dose for Dogs | DailyPuppy.com

I am not advising this but do think it is something you could consult with your vet about since this *could* be a reaction to the sentinel (please note the disclaimer). Maybe someone with some experience with this could offer an opinion?

[bjh]

Originally Posted by AllDogBoots

he had Canina Coronavirus Vaccine, Distemper, ParaInfluenza - Parvo.

The breeder just emailed me that she will NOT take him back but will give me a replacement. She feels that something happened to him while in my care. I'm not ready yet to disclose who this is and everything that has been said, but am prepared to do so if necessary.

A rescue? Dear God. I can give him the medical attention he needs I think. It looks right now that I will have to take care of him no matter what the results are. I certainly don't think that I should be putting him to sleep (as per the breeder).

I think the best thing right now is to just wait and see what the vet says. You will have time later to decide what to do if he does have a liver shunt. Not all liver shunts are operable. I know just the testing alone can get pretty expensive. You mentioned that you have been taking him outside on your grass. Have you treated the grass with any kind of chemical recently? I do pray he is just having a reaction to something and that it is nothing permanent.

[AllDogBoots]

Originally Posted by MyBabyFynnlie

Put him to SLEEP!? Because he's sick! And she failed to tell you that it could happen!? You've had him for, what, five days? HOW would something as active as this because in five days? I'd be marching my butt right up to her door and SHOWING her what happens with him. *deep breath* I am so sorry for you and Max. I can NOT imagine this happening. I just can't.

Don't fret too much, though. Take things one step at a time. You have to be calm and strong for him. I have faith in you and him. I know you'll be a good mommy. You can do this!

i'm not calm but i am strong. i've had him 5 days. i sent her the same video i posted in this thread. she won't take him back because she thinks it's something that happened to him in my care. I work from home. I watch him like a hawk and i can assure anyone nothing has happened that I'm personally responsible for. The breeder requested all blood results if she is to give me another puppy. I don't want another puppy but am happy to give her all test results (which so far cost me $200, not including tomorrow's testing). My primary concern is Max's health. My secondary concern is mine and what to do should the results come back detrimental.

[kjc]

Are Max's poops a normal color...or more yellow? Does his urine look dark...and/or have a bad, strong smell to it? Lactulose won't hurt him... the diarrhea will subside when you stop dosing the Lactulose. It shouldn't be enough to cause him tp dehydrate.

The treatment for HE resulting from LS is 1-2cc Lactulose every hour until the onset of diarrhea. You will see marked improvement ie: no seizures, neuro episodes by the second dose. It is a manmade sugar solution, and it will cause bowel movements, and binds amonia in the intestine preventing it from reaching the liver and getting into the bloodstream. Food will move more quickly through his system, producing less amonia. Red meat may cause a reaction, as it gives off more amonia in the gut than other meats.


Just a reminder: This is truly a nightmare... I prayed before you got a puppy that this would not happen. I know how heartwrenching it all is, I felt similarly when Tink was diagnosed a year ago in April. Shock, disbelief, confusion. Then reading about it, for over a year now. Hint: don't schedule any tests beyond the BAT. If you do decide to go for Surgery... they will want to do all their own testing. University of Tennessee is the best place. They've been researching LS in Yorkies for over 24 years, and they keep their costs down.
If it is LS, it is not the Breeder's fault. A dog that is negative at 2 years old can be positive at 2.5 - 3 years old. They are trying to find the genes responsible at this point in time (I think) to figure early detection or an easier fix.

[AllDogBoots]

Originally Posted by Woogie Man

I'm hesitant to post as I've never had to deal with such issues. A couple of things do come to mind, however.

You are in a wait and see mode right now waiting on results. It seems like a big coincidence that the symptoms arose only a day after giving the Sentinel. It may be that, a liver or neurological issue or a combination of any of these.

One thing I was wondering is if milk thistle could be given to de-toxify the liver. If it is either LS or a reaction to the Sentinel, it would seem to be something that could be done and you might see some positive results. I found this info....

"Milk thistle protects the liver against drugs and heavy metals. It also activates protein synthesis. If liver cells are dead or damaged due to illness or toxic exposure, milk thistle will activate the growth of new cells. Liver issues that can be treated with milk thistle include hepatitis, cholangitis, pericholangitis and hepatic lipidosis.

Other uses for milk thistle are as an anti-oxidant and anti-inflammatory supplement. It can also be used to treat gallstones and inflammatory bowel disease.

Milk thistle taken after a drug regime may protect your dog's liver against damage from chemicals. This can include chemicals taken for treatment of illness or even vaccinations or heartworm, tick and flea preventative applications."

From this source.... Milk Thistle Dose for Dogs | DailyPuppy.com

I am not advising this but do think it is something you could consult with your vet about since this *could* be a reaction to the sentinel (please note the disclaimer). Maybe someone with some experience with this could offer an opinion?

both my vet and a doctor i spoke to at novartis do not think that it is sentinel. i'm not ruling it out.

Originally Posted by bjh

I think the best thing right now is to just wait and see what the vet says. You will have time later to decide what to do if he does have a liver shunt. Not all liver shunts are operable. I know just the testing alone can get pretty expensive. You mentioned that you have been taking him outside on your grass. Have you treated the grass with any kind of chemical recently? I do pray he is just having a reaction to something and that it is nothing permanent.

the grass is not treated with anything.

Originally Posted by kjc

Are Max's poops a normal color...or more yellow? Does his urine look dark...and/or have a bad, strong smell to it? Lactulose won't hurt him... the diarrhea will subside when you stop dosing the Lactulose. It shouldn't be enough to cause him tp dehydrate.

The treatment for HE resulting from LS is 1-2cc Lactulose every hour until the onset of diarrhea. You will see marked improvement ie: no seizures, neuro episodes by the second dose. It is a manmade sugar solution, and it will cause bowel movements, and binds amonia in the intestine preventing it from reaching the liver and getting into the bloodstream. Food will move more quickly through his system, producing less amonia. Red meat may cause a reaction, as it gives off more amonia in the gut than other meats.


Just a reminder: This is truly a nightmare... I prayed before you got a puppy that this would not happen. I know how heartwrenching it all is, I felt similarly when Tink was diagnosed a year ago in April. Shock, disbelief, confusion. Then reading about it, for over a year now. Hint: don't schedule any tests beyond the BAT. If you do decide to go for Surgery... they will want to do all their own testing. University of Tennessee is the best place. They've been researching LS in Yorkies for over 24 years, and they keep their costs down.
If it is LS, it is not the Breeder's fault. A dog that is negative at 2 years old can be positive at 2.5 - 3 years old. They are trying to find the genes responsible at this point in time (I think) to figure early detection or an easier fix.

His poops are perfect brown and solid. His urine is very yellow,not dark and does not have much odor. I hear you about not testing anything more than BAT. I just cannot imagine going to Tennessee for testing for my new puppy. That seems insane to me. I don't blame the breeder, but I will blame her irresponsibility for not taking him back.

[Woogie Man]

Originally Posted by AllDogBoots

both my vet and a doctor i spoke to at novartis do not think that it is sentinel. i'm not ruling it out.

I understand that and the only reason I mentioned the milk thistle is that, on the chance that it is, the milk thistle is something proactive you could be doing to de-tox the liver. It would seem that, if it is toxins, the sooner they were removed, the better. I found nothing that indicates milk thistle is harmful to pups. Here's a little more info.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"How does it help? If your puppy has been chemically wormed or vaccinated, it may have a toxic liver. Milk thistle can help heal its liver.
How do I give it? Mix in enemas with fresh lemon juice, and give orally too if your puppy is keeping down fluids orally.
How much do I give? Instructions should be on the container it comes in.

DOSAGE INFO

Puppy Weight Non-Alcohol Milk Thistle*
0-3#’s 4 drops
4-10#’s 10 drops
11-20#’s 15 drops
21-30#’s 20 drops
31-40#’s 25 drops
41-50#’s 30 drops
51-80#’s 35 drops

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From this source.... Parvo Home Remedy Detailed Descriptions of the Holistic Medicines

[kjc]

Woogie Man is correct: A product like Denamarin (contains milk thistle) would help him out as a liver protectant and assists in regeneration. If he has LS, this is normally prescribed.

ETA: you can do LS surgery closer to home.. but it may cost $1000.00-$2000.00 more. Something else you want to price before you commit.

[BonBon]

Originally Posted by Woogie Man

I understand that and the only reason I mentioned the milk thistle is that, on the chance that it is, the milk thistle is something proactive you could be doing to de-tox the liver. It would seem that, if it is toxins, the sooner they were removed, the better. I found nothing that indicates milk thistle is harmful to pups. Here's a little more info.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"How does it help? If your puppy has been chemically wormed or vaccinated, it may have a toxic liver. Milk thistle can help heal its liver.
How do I give it? Mix in enemas with fresh lemon juice, and give orally too if your puppy is keeping down fluids orally.
How much do I give? Instructions should be on the container it comes in.

DOSAGE INFO

Puppy Weight Non-Alcohol Milk Thistle*
0-3#’s 4 drops
4-10#’s 10 drops
11-20#’s 15 drops
21-30#’s 20 drops
31-40#’s 25 drops
41-50#’s 30 drops
51-80#’s 35 drops

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From this source.... Parvo Home Remedy Detailed Descriptions of the Holistic Medicines

Originally Posted by kjc

Woogie Man is correct: A product like Denamarin (contains milk thistle) would help him out as a liver protectant and assists in regeneration. If he has LS, this is normally prescribed.

ETA: you can do LS surgery closer to home.. but it may cost $1000.00-$2000.00 more. Something else you want to price before you commit.

Could giving him milk thistle now possibly compromise the BAT results, should he need that test?

[AllDogBoots]

Originally Posted by kjc

Woogie Man is correct: A product like Denamarin (contains milk thistle) would help him out as a liver protectant and assists in regeneration. If he has LS, this is normally prescribed.

ETA: you can do LS surgery closer to home.. but it may cost $1000.00-$2000.00 more. Something else you want to price before you commit.

My vet mentioned that he could give me a few recommendations, however has never seen a dog come out of surgery for less than $2000.

I will look into the milk thistle. Will that alter his BAT tests though tomorrow, should he need to take more tests?

[Woogie Man]

Originally Posted by kjc

Woogie Man is correct: A product like Denamarin (contains milk thistle) would help him out as a liver protectant and assists in regeneration. If he has LS, this is normally prescribed.

ETA: you can do LS surgery closer to home.. but it may cost $1000.00-$2000.00 more. Something else you want to price before you commit.

Thanks for your comment. I'm just worried that, if it is toxins (from whatever source), that the longer they stay in the body, the more damage that can be done. He's only 10 weeks and the organs aren't fully developed for 20 weeks so this is very troubling.

[Darlene68]

Oh no Karen I am so sorry for what you are going through right now, I feel like crying myself just thinking about the situation you`re in I think all of us with yorkies think about the possible health problems that are prevalent to yorkies, and everytime I read about a little one getting sick my heart breaks. I am sending prayers to you and Max, I hope things are not as bad as they seem right now, and pray this situation with Max get better. Sending hugs.

[YorkieRose]

What a terrible situation...and a breeder who has no clue as to how to handle this situation..well, she better start learning fast or stop breeding.

An ethical breeder will give you your choice, once it is decided it is LS..you may return the pup for another, you may have a full refund and keep the pup..an ethcical breeder can not throw up their hands and refuse to take on this problem...she created it, she solves it..even if totally dissrupts her life..

She is not legally repsonsible for surgery costs etc if you decide to keep the pup, but the selling price can be applied to the vet fees.
Best wishes

PS..you can never say a bloodline is genetically free of all problems...none exist.

[teacup0819]

OMG....my heart goes out to you and Max....what a horrible situation to be in....and what a terrible thing to be going through. Hopefully it will turn out better than expected....and not LS. Hugs and Kisses and Prayers are being sent your way. I have to say that I am no impressed with your breeder's response to you....where is her compassion for you and Max!!! Offering another animal instead of offering money to help offset the costs of your vet bills is just plain insensitive.