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Old 02-11-2010, 01:58 PM   #16
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I just called them, as I routinely use their foods to medicate my pups as needed. The lady said all their meat foods were reformulated and the onion powder was removed in 1996, and all ingredients are listed on the label. Funny, she asked if I had a kitty, and I never mentioned my concern was with onions being toxic to dogs. 1-800-4-GERBER
Also, the Animal Hospital/ER where I was employed including the years from 1991-1996 routinely fed countless numbers of animals meat baby food, and no issues ever surfaced as a result of them ingesting baby food. Some ate it 3 times a day for a week or more.
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Old 02-11-2010, 02:36 PM   #17
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I freeze my pumkin as well and I put it in ice cube trays and make them into icecubes then I take them out and put them in a zip loc bag in the freezer.
I do that with pumpkin and I also do it with coconut milk.
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Old 02-11-2010, 08:05 PM   #18
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Thank you everyone for your suggestions, we have had a success, it was small but still a success, lol

It has been crazy here (weather & schedule) but I am going to get pumpkin tmrw just to help everything move smoother for the next few days... she is eating and drinking much better though.

She was being babysat while I was out today and when I came home she was very alert and awake... I realized she was two hours late on her pain meds... I gave them to her and now she is back to how she was before, so I am thinking her mood/energy level is due to the pain meds. I dont want to take her off of them in case she is in pain, so maybe when they are done she will get back to herself.
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Old 02-12-2010, 10:02 AM   #19
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Thank you everyone for your suggestions, we have had a success, it was small but still a success, lol

It has been crazy here (weather & schedule) but I am going to get pumpkin tmrw just to help everything move smoother for the next few days... she is eating and drinking much better though.

She was being babysat while I was out today and when I came home she was very alert and awake... I realized she was two hours late on her pain meds... I gave them to her and now she is back to how she was before, so I am thinking her mood/energy level is due to the pain meds. I dont want to take her off of them in case she is in pain, so maybe when they are done she will get back to herself.
Yeah, the pain meds will effect her mood/energy, and she'll probably sleep a lot. They also can effect digestion too. You could start to wean her a little off the pills and see how she acts when you wait an hour or 2 longer. Doctors usually give more pain pills than you need, it's not always necessary to take them all, or some people will spread them out more during the day, and only give them at night.
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Old 02-12-2010, 01:45 PM   #20
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My Chloe was spayed and had a liver biopsy on Tuesday and has yet to poop since... I am starting to get worried, is this normal? I figured if she still doesnt poop today I would call the vet but I am starting to get nervous and figured I would ask here first.

She is eating very little... she will only eat a few kibble and then I give her some baby food, so maybe this is part of the problem.

She just appears so miserable, she has barely moved out of her crate since I brought her home tuesday night.
why did they do a liver biopsy? was it to determine mvd?

Pain meds constipates them so i use pumpkin as my demi was on torbitrol and she did not poop for a few days it was after having teeth extractions for dental and i walked her and gave her pumpkin but it took a few days for her to poop.

If this was for mvd diagnosis what were the bat numbers?
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Old 02-12-2010, 01:46 PM   #21
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Thanks for the tip, I think having pumpkin around is a good thing!
i freeze up one tsp in ice cube trays - freeze them then pop them out and put in a baggie in the freezer and when i need them i pull them out. I use organic canned pumpkin from whole foods
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Old 02-12-2010, 01:48 PM   #22
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I freeze my pumkin as well and I put it in ice cube trays and make them into icecubes then I take them out and put them in a zip loc bag in the freezer.
i do this too it is perfect - sometimes i just put in baggies though instead of ice trays - i get the snack bags and put a teaspoon in there and then freeze a bunch of baggies

i also slice up pineapple and freeze on cookie tray and put in baggie for my poop eaters
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Old 02-12-2010, 01:53 PM   #23
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Oh good, I would think the banana and sweet potato would have lots of fiber, unless they took all that out, and made it a soup. I imagine she's feeling bad because of the incision, and when that feels better, she'll eat and poop. The good news is that the liver looked good, I don't know anything about Liver Shunt, but I'm glad the liver looked good, maybe someone else can tell you WHY it's important to do the biopsy.
Honestly the more i think on this liver biopsy stuff the more i am against it as all they are going to tell you is YEP the dog has mvd when the bile acids already tell you that when below 100 so honestly would not advise a biopsy anymore as you are not going to change the plan of action even if it is mvd from biopsy - if bats are high and less than 100 no symptoms then feed 22% protein with symptoms feed 18% protein and over 100 and symptoms right to scintigraphy to see if a shunt as even the protein c test is not accurate is what i have found.

I just think doing the biopsy does not change the plan of action at all so why put them through it and i have read if they biopsy one part of the liver vs another the outcome can be different anyway so you really are not getting concrete information anyway.

My dog has mvd she has tested post 73, 54 and 26 and luckily she was tested at 3 years old after her spay so i am glad as i did not have to make that decision but i just am not feeling comfortable with it the more i read on it
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Old 02-12-2010, 01:55 PM   #24
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why did they do a liver biopsy? was it to determine mvd?

If this was for mvd diagnosis what were the bat numbers?
yes it was for an MVD diagnosis, we still dont have the results yet, we had a lot of snow here and the doctor said that could back up the lab and we may not know until Monday.

The Bat numbers were (i dont have them in front of me now, but I think) 15 & 57 and then retested the pre # was normal and the post # was 35.

Shunt was ruled out with an ultrasound even though the numbers didnt indicate it anyway.

I was going back and forth on whether to biopsy or not, but I spoke with two specialists and consulted the yahoo group and everyone seemed to think it was best to biopsy since she was being spayed anyway, this way we would know for sure and there would never be a question for the future. The vet said her liver looked perfect, perfect size, color, etc... so that was at least promising news... now we just wait on the biopsy results.

I have been treating her as an MVD dog anyway for the last few months, so even if it is confirmed it wont really make a difference in her life at this point.
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Old 02-12-2010, 01:58 PM   #25
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Please don't give baby food, it use to be ok, but many manufactures have started adding onions to improve the test. Onions are ok for human babies, but can be deadly to dogs. If she's not eating a lot, she may not have enough in her intestines to poop. Many people recommend adding 1 tsp of pumpkin for either diarrhea or constipation. It has lots of fiber, and is good for intestines. Use regular canned pumpkin, not the pumpkin pie filling, it has too much sugar and other things. You don't need to give the whole can, it's a good idea to freeze the rest; it will grow moldy if left in refrigerator a couple of weeks. I know this through personal experience.

Hope Chloe recovers soon, why the liver biopsy, do they suspect Liver shunt?
Liver biopsy will not determine liver shunt only scintigraphy is the accurate way to determine liver shunt as ultrasound is not really even accurate and personally a waste of money unless the person is REALLY good at finding shunts as they are so tiny to find in a small dog the person would have to do it all the time in looking for shunts to find it and know what to look for.

wanted to add when demi went under for dental and was on pain meds it was 3 days before she pooped and i was nervous so i started adding pumpkin and walked her every hour around the block so it does take time and she was eating pretty normal so if yours is eating less then i would think it would take longer

also i agree with the baby foods as onion causes anemia in dogs and your dog just had surgery so you need to be very careful
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Old 02-12-2010, 02:00 PM   #26
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yes it was for an MVD diagnosis, we still dont have the results yet, we had a lot of snow here and the doctor said that could back up the lab and we may not know until Monday.

The Bat numbers were (i dont have them in front of me now, but I think) 15 & 57 and then retested the pre # was normal and the post # was 35.

Shunt was ruled out with an ultrasound even though the numbers didnt indicate it anyway.

I was going back and forth on whether to biopsy or not, but I spoke with two specialists and consulted the yahoo group and everyone seemed to think it was best to biopsy since she was being spayed anyway, this way we would know for sure and there would never be a question for the future. The vet said her liver looked perfect, perfect size, color, etc... so that was at least promising news... now we just wait on the biopsy results.

I have been treating her as an MVD dog anyway for the last few months, so even if it is confirmed it wont really make a difference in her life at this point.
yeah those numbers were not bad at all wish they would not have pressured you to do that

Was she having any symptoms?
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Old 02-12-2010, 02:10 PM   #27
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yeah those numbers were not bad at all wish they would not have pressured you to do that

Was she having any symptoms?

Just curious how much was it for liver biopsy?

See the reason is why i do not like this is the incision is much larger, much more stressful on dog and now once you get the results either way what is going to change in treatment? Probably nothing and if they biopsied and area where it was not present the results are inconclusive anyway

I just think the blood work is sufficient to how to treat the dog and this really does not do anything to help the dog and i believe the less stress on the dog the better

Now shunt wise if having symptoms and over 100 then you need to determine if shunt as then you will do surgery and correct the shunt so the dog has no symptoms and quality of life as there is a corrective treatment for it but mvd there is not corrective treatment with a liver biopsy it is the same treatment you would do not having done it - just my honest opinion

it is the same I feel with people who rush in to surgery for acl tears, luxating patella, and acl ruptures they scare the people into thinking they are going to have arthritis if they do not have this surgery YET the dog will have scar tissue and still get arthritis with surgery and those are rough surgeries and i have seen many dogs lift the legs even after surgery I just get bummed when dogs are pressured into surgeries that are not going to give you answers to treat differently than if no surgery.

I know we want a definite diagnosis but we should only do it if it is going to help the dog

I am only stating this for others contemplating the liver biopsy as i know at this point it is done with your baby
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Old 02-12-2010, 02:18 PM   #28
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when dex kept getting sick for a year with ibd and pancreatitis they were not sure what was going on so the last time we all agreed probably ibd due to potato in diet as we had switched around a few foods. So she says let's scope him and get a definite diagnosis and i said well if you scope him and get a diagnosis how will you treat him and she said well ultimately getting the right diet for him and i said is there a risk for scoping and she said yes as they biopsy intestines and it can damage intestines but it is rare. She also said if food does not work then we will not give him meds unless we have a firm diagnosis so I said what other foods can we try because you are not scoping him putting him through this after he has been through so much and he cannot take steroids due to pancreatitis issue so why put him through this so we opted for purina ha and he has been fine for 4 years. I was not going to put dex through this to just tell me it is ibd when i already know he vomits his food up whole so he obviously has ibd in small intestines -I did not need them to do a scoping to tell me this - i just think the tend to test more than what is necessary for their own curiosity when it really is not going to help the dog. Scoping dex would have done nothing to help Dexter and there was a risk of doing it so why would i put him through it yet internal medicine wanted me to do this After going through so much I have now learned that i will make the ultimate decision for them and not be pressured into things i do not think make sense to me
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