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Old 09-27-2009, 08:48 AM   #1
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Default Runny Stool!

My Lola has not had a normal bowel movement in while. Yes she is seen by the vet. They ran a stool sample and everything came out normal, no parasites. She is on metrondazole 250mg. This seems to help only while she is taking it. The runny stool keeps coming back. Any other suggestions for my vet? I'm taking her in tomorrow. She is only eats Canadae dry and water. And has for about 3 years. I cant give her anything else. But even with the dry food her bowel movement its still very runny. She is not losing weight and not dehydrated and runs around playing like a puppy. Her energy level is great! What could this be. Anyone?
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Old 09-27-2009, 11:43 AM   #2
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What is her weight and the script for metro? Or my 8-11.5 pounders do 1/4 250mg 2xdaily x 5days. Sometimes this is not enough, and my vet said to extend the schedule to 12-14 days. Whenever it rains mine pick up some bug in my yard, I'm thinking Giardia ... it can be carried in rain drops falling on leaves and stuff. We don't even do fecals for it unless I notice something unusual, I do them every 6 months anyway for my peace of mind. Not all things can be seen on flotations, or did they do a direct? It also depends on the organism. With frequent diarrhea, it is possible that the organism has been flushed partially from her bowel at the time the fecal sample is obtained. Then what is left further up begins reproducing again. You should give her a probiotic (or yogurt if she can handle dairy)during and after any antibiotic treatment to re-establish the good bacteria in her gut. Hope this helps ...
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Old 09-27-2009, 03:09 PM   #3
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What is her weight and the script for metro? Or my 8-11.5 pounders do 1/4 250mg 2xdaily x 5days. Sometimes this is not enough, and my vet said to extend the schedule to 12-14 days. Whenever it rains mine pick up some bug in my yard, I'm thinking Giardia ... it can be carried in rain drops falling on leaves and stuff. We don't even do fecals for it unless I notice something unusual, I do them every 6 months anyway for my peace of mind. Not all things can be seen on flotations, or did they do a direct? It also depends on the organism. With frequent diarrhea, it is possible that the organism has been flushed partially from her bowel at the time the fecal sample is obtained. Then what is left further up begins reproducing again. You should give her a probiotic (or yogurt if she can handle dairy)during and after any antibiotic treatment to re-establish the good bacteria in her gut. Hope this helps ...
She weights 6 lbs and takes 1/4 250mg 2xdayx14 days. I bet she has Giardia. Where can I get probiotic?Whats a good kind of Yogurt.
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Old 09-27-2009, 08:38 PM   #4
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Any yogurt has the bacteria in it. I try to find the most natural/organic to avoid unnecessary additives. In a pinch, the cheaper will work just fine. Mine eat the plain, vanilla, and berry flavors. DOGZYMES Digestive Enhancer from Nature's Farmacy - Store (Nature's Farmacy - Store - Product Details=) was recommended by Wylie's Mom in a thread about probiotics. It may be better than yogurt as it also contains digestive enzymes in addition to 5 types of good bacteria for the gut.

Many YTers also recommend canned pumpkin to help firm up the stools. (not the canned pumpkin pie mix) as it adds fiber to the diet. You can fill an ice cube tray with it an freeze it for longer storage as a can only stays good in the fridge for 3 days.

Also, prevent her from drinking rainwater from puddles on walks, or from any containers in your yard. Many people are unaware that this can be a possible source of Giardia infection. Also clean muddy feet immediately when coming into the home after a walk or being in the yard to prevent them from ingesting any protozoa they may have picked up.

Giardia can also be found in drinking water. Use a Pur or Brita filter that states elimination of Giardia cysts (usually 99.7% elimination) and give her filtered water. Clean the water bowl or bottle with a 5% - 10% bleach and water solution daily. Rinse 3 times then refill with filtered water.

And last but not least: keep her butt clean (especially during treatment). Giardia cysts can adhere to the hair and be transmitted back to the dog through licking. Bathe her completely a couple times during and at the end of the antibiotic treatment.

I am in no way saying that you don't keep your dog clean. I don't know you or your living situation. This type of infection can be extremely hard to get rid of and these are suggestions I found in articles about Giardia online. As your pup has recurring problems (as do mine) we may have to be really crazy clean (use bleach solution on floors, feed and water bowls, bedding, etc.) for a few months to irradicate this beast!
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Old 09-27-2009, 09:14 PM   #5
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My Lola has not had a normal bowel movement in while. Yes she is seen by the vet. They ran a stool sample and everything came out normal, no parasites. She is on metrondazole 250mg. This seems to help only while she is taking it. The runny stool keeps coming back. Any other suggestions for my vet? I'm taking her in tomorrow. She is only eats Canadae dry and water. And has for about 3 years. I cant give her anything else. But even with the dry food her bowel movement its still very runny. She is not losing weight and not dehydrated and runs around playing like a puppy. Her energy level is great! What could this be. Anyone?
it is the canidae as have read in past dogs have had diarhea on that food. If everything else is ruled out it is food. It is probably ibd as dogs can eat a food for 3 years and become intolerant of it as ibd is a food intolerance. I would switch the food to natural balance venison and sweet potato for 12 weeks and see if you see a difference because if it is ibd and you do not switch the food you may have to do tylan powder which is worse as a lifetime antibiotic. Also you should be using probiotics as well every morning 30 min before food as it puts good bacteria into the digestive tract to balance out the bad and it provides a healthy environment for the intestines. Inflammatory bowel disease will never show up on any blood work or fecal it is process of elimination when a dog has runny stools. Colitis is also tied to it as well. If a dog has diarhea it is ibd in large intestines if vomitting it is ibd in small intestines
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Old 09-27-2009, 09:17 PM   #6
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She weights 6 lbs and takes 1/4 250mg 2xdayx14 days. I bet she has Giardia. Where can I get probiotic?Whats a good kind of Yogurt.
many dogs are lactose intolerant and the yogurt can make the situation worse so i would use a powder probiotic -- i use dds plus from the vitamine shoppe 2 capsules every day first thing in the morning it has acidopholus, biffidus and fos

Is it bloody diarhea as giardia is bloody diarhea if not i would think with all the fecals you have done if you have done a few they would have picked up giardia by now as giardia is hard to detect but if you do a few fecals it eventually shows up but my understanding is it also is a blood diarhea
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Old 09-27-2009, 09:19 PM   #7
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i do recommend organic pumpkin but not too much as too much will cause diarhea so now i lean toward white rice as it firms them up a little more as was discussing with a lady at the pet store and she also said she finds the white rice firms them up more than pumpkin as dd had a colitis incident and i was giving her a little pumpkin and she was pooping orange pudding so now i have a question mark about it and i was not giving too much either - do not do brown rice as it has too much fiber and it is hard for them to digest
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Old 09-27-2009, 09:26 PM   #8
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From:
Giardia canis in Dogs
What are the signs of a Giardia infection? Most infections with Giardia are asymptomatic. In the rare cases in which disease occurs, younger animals are usually affected, and the usual sign is diarrhea. The diarrhea may be acute, intermittent, or chronic. Usually the infected animals will not lose their appetite, but they may lose weight. The feces are often abnormal, being pale, having a bad odor, and appearing greasy. In the intestine, Giardia prevents proper absorption of nutrients, damages the delicate intestinal lining, and interferes with digestion.
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Old 09-27-2009, 09:34 PM   #9
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looks like if you take in a hard stool and a soft stool to vet there are two different ways they can detect to make sure it is not this -- my guess is it is canidae as have read many dogs have diarhea on that food
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Old 09-27-2009, 10:03 PM   #10
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dwerten: As OP stated metro helps while she's on it would metro have any effect if it was a food intolerance? Metro is also prescribed when dogs have bouts of colitis, which can be caused by stress (any changes at home that may have upset dog?) Agree yogurt may not be a good choice for this pup, thought OP would know if pup was lactose intolerant or not. I should have told OP to go to heath food store in her area for probiotics, as the quicker she's put on them the better. Is it a good idea to change the food now or wait till after the antibiotics are done? OP states she can't feed anything else ... Forgot that Giardia does produces very stinky diarrhea ... reeking stinky, and yes, can be bloody, and waxy or oily in appearance. Also thinking diarrhea recurs from lack of good bacteria in the gut from antibiotics, probiotics alone may help as once the good bacteria are reestablished the gut may be able to handle Giardia and rid itself of it, or at least prevent it from taking hold. Article also recommends taking a stool sample over 3 days where it is collected and stored in the fridge and then all mixed together and tested as a single sample. Also, I have seen that a vaccine is available against Giardia, but my vet does not recommend it at this time as it is too new and any long term effects are unknown.
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Old 09-27-2009, 10:12 PM   #11
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dwerten: As OP stated metro helps while she's on it would metro have any effect if it was a food intolerance? Metro is also prescribed when dogs have bouts of colitis, which can be caused by stress (any changes at home that may have upset dog?) Agree yogurt may not be a good choice for this pup, thought OP would know if pup was lactose intolerant or not. I should have told OP to go to heath food store in her area for probiotics, as the quicker she's put on them the better. Is it a good idea to change the food now or wait till after the antibiotics are done? OP states she can't feed anything else ... Forgot that Giardia does produces very stinky diarrhea ... reeking stinky, and yes, can be bloody, and waxy or oily in appearance. Also thinking diarrhea recurs from lack of good bacteria in the gut from antibiotics, probiotics alone may help as once the good bacteria are reestablished the gut may be able to handle Giardia and rid itself of it, or at least prevent it from taking hold. Article also recommends taking a stool sample over 3 days where it is collected and stored in the fridge and then all mixed together and tested as a single sample. Also, I have seen that a vaccine is available against Giardia, but my vet does not recommend it at this time as it is too new and any long term effects are unknown.
yep metro and tylan powder help dogs with inflammatory bowel disease as they have an anti-inflammatory agent in them so yes both would help an ibd dog but once they stop the antibiotic the diarhea starts again -- I have an ibd dog but his ibd is in the small intestines and i have a colitis, allergy ibd dog so I know a ton about this
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Old 09-27-2009, 10:18 PM   #12
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yep metro and tylan powder help dogs with inflammatory bowel disease as they have an anti-inflammatory agent in them so yes both would help an ibd dog but once they stop the antibiotic the diarhea starts again -- I have an ibd dog but his ibd is in the small intestines and i have a colitis, allergy ibd dog so I know a ton about this
yeah i would not vaccinate for this nor would i ever vaccinate for dental as well -- I am dealing with the same thing since metacam as my girl got sick and colitis and ibd from a metacam incident where vet gave her metacam on empty stomach while on steroids -- i got in a argument with him as i wanted tramadol for her hurt leg and i trusted him and should not have as I knew better so she has been having off and on diarhea since feb and due to her allergies ims thinks she has ibd as well and colitis flairs up - prior to that one dose of metacam never had diarhea like this -- it is very frustrating. She will have one good poop then another then diarhea and she is on probiotics and ibd food which is a hydrolized soy diet that my boy with ibd is on as well. It normally makes very hard poops yet she is battling the runny ones. My next step is tylan powder which i am trying to avoid as do not want to do long term antibiotics as if she gets immune then where am I but some ibd dogs if they cannot control with diet have to go on tylan powder and tylan is better than metro as it is dosed down lower than metro per ims as metro has to be compounded for toy breeds
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Old 09-27-2009, 11:13 PM   #13
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Oh yeah, I remember reading your post in an earlier thread about the metacam and steroid combo. Boy that really sucks. Two of mine are having poops that are firm and normal when they start but end up with runny poop at the end. My LS pup had a firm stool but it looked more oval than round, almost smashed flat. Can't wait till tomorrow to see what they do! Also, I've heard some very bad things about the dental vaccine, some deaths involved.

I guess I like to try medications before diet changes though bc nailing down a food allergy can take a long time, and many things can be ruled out quicker with meds. I recently read in a thread where people were putting Tylan powder on their pup's food to control stinky eye discharge. I didn't think this is such a good idea, as AB eye ointment is available and effective. Why treat that systemically, and what long term problems may result ie: producing AB resistent bacteria and immuno suppressed dogs? Long term oral antibiotic use should be a last resort, not the first choice in the treatment plan, just because it's easier.
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Old 09-28-2009, 04:40 AM   #14
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Thanks you guys for all your great advise. I will put this all together and start fresh. Yes her runny stool smells bad. I shop at Whole Foods and Sprouts so I will pickup some probiotic. Do I just open a cap and mix it with her food? I am taking another sample to the vet today and maybe have them do a full blood panel. What do you think? As far as bleaching, well I am the Bleach queen. I wash their bowls out a couple of times a day. My others have reg stools so whatever this is it is not contagious.
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Old 09-28-2009, 04:56 AM   #15
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I for sure would get her off the Canidae food!! The company was bought out over a year ago and the formula is different..in a bad way. Maybe this will solve the problem? My dogs had this very same problem..and I switched to Fromm..and their stools are perfect. Good Luck!
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