Originally Posted by chachi (Post 4547072)

Now Im not trying to take away or belittling what someone else may be feeling is going on on the forum but from my viewpoint it has mellowed out alot. If anything its usually pretty slow around here with no controversial threads and it is a forum and there is always going to be some disention but its definitely not prevalent on here but I understand if your on the receiving end of it why you would think it is

Originally Posted by Lovetodream88 (Post 4547087)

What's funny is you attack to in fact I believe you said some extremely terrible things. It is the moderators job to decided who breaks the rules and who doesn't and what to do about. If you don't like that I'm not sure what to tell you except that is the rules here. You are not a moderator.

Originally Posted by ladyjane (Post 4547078)

Agree it is much quieter. And, this forum is tame compared to others.

The funny thing is that those who complain that they are on the receiving end of things have the other party who feels the same way but they don't complain.

I have seen all out witch hunts on this forum and the people who are doing that don't see that they are doing worse than the ones they are hunting.

Originally Posted by ladyjane (Post 4547078)

Agree it is much quieter. And, this forum is tame compared to others.

The funny thing is that those who complain that they are on the receiving end of things have the other party who feels the same way but they don't complain.

I have seen all out witch hunts on this forum and the people who are doing that don't see that they are doing worse than the ones they are hunting.

Originally Posted by chachi (Post 4547072)

Now Im not trying to take away or belittling what someone else may be feeling is going on on the forum but from my viewpoint it has mellowed out alot. If anything its usually pretty slow around here with no controversial threads and it is a forum and there is always going to be some disention but its definitely not prevalent on here but I understand if your on the receiving end of it why you would think it is

Originally Posted by MauiGirl (Post 4547101)

I especially value you, Chachi, LadyJane, Megansmomma, Nancy1999, Wylie's Mom, (to name just a few) and all the others, who have been members for so long, with soooo many posts. You have shared so much, and taught me so much, and I am a much better dog owner because of you.

You have all witnessed changing trends on YorkieTalk, and I'm just glad you are still here :) So many members have come and gone, for whatever reason, and I'm just happy that you still participate. :ghug:

Internet communication in general has evolved over the last 10 years into quite a mess, where people under the veil of anonymity say all kinds of rude, hurtful, and inappropriate things. I am grateful that Yorkie Talk for the most part has remained "real", and better than many forums.

Originally Posted by ladyjane (Post 4547107)

And, I feel the same about those you mentioned....as well as many others (it would be a very long list if I started naming them) and you as well, Sandy.

YT is an awesome forum! We have all reaped many great benefits here...this is a great place to share and learn about our beloved breed and also other topics! I have met and communicated outside of this forum with so many people I have met here over the years. I see so many who have left for FB, and while I do spend time there, my heart does lead me here to YT.

I am also grateful to the ones who have not abandoned the ship!

Originally Posted by MauiGirl (Post 4547101)

I especially value you, Chachi, LadyJane, Megansmomma, Nancy1999, Wylie's Mom, (to name just a few) and all the others, who have been members for so long, with soooo many posts. You have shared so much, and taught me so much, and I am a much better dog owner because of you.

You have all witnessed changing trends on YorkieTalk, and I'm just glad you are still here :) So many members have come and gone, for whatever reason, and I'm just happy that you still participate. :ghug:

Internet communication in general has evolved over the last 10 years into quite a mess, where people under the veil of anonymity say all kinds of rude, hurtful, and inappropriate things. I am grateful that Yorkie Talk for the most part has remained "real", and better than many forums.

Originally Posted by yorkietalkjilly (Post 4547133)

The day an online forum begins to affect one's health is the day to walk away and put some space between us and our media devices! Words and discussions or even ad hominem attacks by people we don't even know shouldn't ever be given that much power in anyone's life and actually only mean as much as we personally allow.

Still, when replying to someone with whom we disagree, personal attacks on a member's character or making one's response personal in nature doesn't seem necessary to really make a point or add anything but an offensive or wounding nature to the narrative and is a force that often needlessly offends and drives some members away. It is possible to disagree and debate without the tone getting personal or insulting. I'm hoping we can debate anything here and keep it civil if we want others to really listen to our message, as ranting, railing and insulting rarely gets any point across effectively, can hurt feelings and apparently loses YT members from time to time.

Originally Posted by ladyjane (Post 4547191)

Anyone who makes personal attacks, all you do is report them.....the admin and mod don't allow such behavior. People make up this stuff...saying they have been attacked when they have not. I have seen that SO much over the years. It gets old.

You mention "tone" yet you know full well that "tone" in any of these posts is how the text is perceived to that person. I am sorry Jeanie but I really get tired of hearing people bring up tone as if they have a better "tone" than others.

The reason some points don't come across effectively is usually because the person does not want to hear it.

I am done with this. Just gets silly sometimes...no offense but I simply don't agree with this.

Originally Posted by yorkietalkjilly (Post 4547226)

If you think my discussion about tone gets gets silly and disagree, Linda, your opinion is welcome and noted, the more the merrier. Goodness knows you and many of us have been attacked when trying to dispense what we thought was well-intended, good advice. But OP started this thread to ask for more respect and for a kinder, gentler YorkieTalk due to complaints about the kind of mean-spirited, disdainful, snarky posts being made all too often. To me, that speaks to content and tone of posts. I think most thinking people would agree that a kinder, gentler, more positive tone or accent in a post works far better at conveying one's message than a harsh, snarky, aggressive style of posting, irrespective of what type of person is on the receiving end or how they choose to receive or perceive it.

We can't just post anything we'd like and then say our words, tone or style were misunderstood by others or they just didn't want to hear it - we all bear the responsibility of the content and tone of our posts and if we've done our best to stay as kind, compassionate and supportive of the dog we're posting about to his owner/guardian, and we're still misunderstood or even verbally attacked, so be it. We can rebut. And if it is a non-dog thread, we can still state our opinions and advice in the same way, free of scorn and spite.

And if anyone personally attacks me on a public thread, I'm probably not going to report it to Admin and just quietly skulk off into the shadows, I'm likely going to personally respond and defend myself for as long as it takes or until I lose interest, but it will be done with as much dignity and respect as I can muster, still hoping to get my points across to anyone out there who wishes to receive them - or not.

Originally Posted by megansmomma (Post 4547301)

If you seriously want everyone to always comment to posts in a set manner then my suggestion would be to join some of the Yorkie Groups on Facebook. Their rules go something like this:

Post positive comments or you will be banned.

I cannot associate myself with those FB groups because that do not allow others to learn. The things that I have seen said to the members of those groups makes me sick. Some are breeding dogs and having litters of puppies and moms that and sick dogs that only prayers are allowed. There is so much breeding happening it's disturbing! Sick dogs and no vetting every single day! The list goes on and on. The other day I read training advice for using a FLY SWATTER for a biting puppy! All of this type of commenting goes on as long as the OP isn't told whatever they are doing is wrong. If someone does the others attack, they are reported and banned! I learned my lesson over an obviously fake account of a woman posting a picture of her "new puppy". Everyone was congratulating her on her beautiful puppy and from the picture I could tell it was a bogus FB account. So I went to her page and it was all in (I believe) Korean. When I commented that it was fake and she was selling Korean Puppymill puppies I was reported to one of the ADMINs who deleted my comment and then scolded me for making a negative comment! :eek: When I tried to explain to one of the girls that was commenting in a PM on FB she blocked me and reported me to the ADMIN who told me not that I was not allowed to communicate with other members!!!!!

To me, YT allows everyone to have a voice. Share varying opinions and the forum works well. :thumbup:

Originally Posted by yorkietalkjilly (Post 4547355)

You missed my point about Yorkietalk - I'm just taking the position of Ann, the OP, who started this thread to say that mean-spirited, overly-aggressive and snarky posts are causing complaints, can be hurtful, causes some to leave YT and we should try harder to be nicer and less aggressive to one another in our communications here while keeping our passion and zeal for the wellbeing of our dogs, other animals and each other. It's entirely possible not to rage or angrily zing another member in order to make a point and teach someone something. We get our points across better using straight forward but less harsh-toned messages - otherwise teachers would get in students' faces and berate and browbeat them into learning rather than keep their classroom teaching as genial, positive and upbeat as possible - a more conducive atmosphere for learning.

A kinder, gentler forum for teaching, imparting opinion, advice and information, every bit as passionate and non-PC, where necessary, to ferret out mistreatment and neglect, is more effective than a mean-spirited one, most teachers and great communicators think. After all, it keeps more members returning here more often who learn more about how to be better Yorkie parents than do those we've browbeaten, bullied and run off in a funk due to outright oppression or hurt feelings.

I've posted my passionate position about keeping caged birds and tanked fish on another thread - a very unpopular position, no doubt. My intent in posting wasn't to browbeat, angrily zing or disrespect anyone. I doubt most would think my post is mean-spirited or nasty-toned to anybody but if anyone wants to believe that, so be it. There will always be lots who disagree and hate those who speak out - we're free that way on YT. I'll leave it open to interpretation of any who want to read it whether my intent was to wound or bully someone or just share my opinion on whether keeping birds and fish as pets is a good life for them. I'll never let being politically correct get in the way of my passion for animal welfare but I won't bash anyone when sharing my thoughts and passions either. It's quite possible to be passionate for animal well-being without being thought nasty and ugly.

Originally Posted by yorkietalkjilly (Post 4547355)

You missed my point about Yorkietalk - I'm just taking the position of Ann, the OP, who started this thread to say that mean-spirited, overly-aggressive and snarky posts are causing complaints, can be hurtful, causes some to leave YT and we should try harder to be nicer and less aggressive to one another in our communications here while keeping our passion and zeal for the wellbeing of our dogs, other animals and each other. It's entirely possible not to rage or angrily zing another member in order to make a point and teach someone something. We get our points across better using straight forward but less harsh-toned messages - otherwise teachers would get in students' faces and berate and browbeat them into learning rather than keep their classroom teaching as genial, positive and upbeat as possible - a more conducive atmosphere for learning.

A kinder, gentler forum for teaching, imparting opinion, advice and information, every bit as passionate and non-PC, where necessary, to ferret out mistreatment and neglect, is more effective than a mean-spirited one, most teachers and great communicators think. After all, it keeps more members returning here more often who learn more about how to be better Yorkie parents than do those we've browbeaten, bullied and run off in a funk due to outright oppression or hurt feelings.

I've posted my passionate position about keeping caged birds and tanked fish on another thread - a very unpopular position, no doubt. My intent in posting wasn't to browbeat, angrily zing or disrespect anyone. I doubt most would think my post is mean-spirited or nasty-toned to anybody but if anyone wants to believe that, so be it. There will always be lots who disagree and hate those who speak out - we're free that way on YT. I'll leave it open to interpretation of any who want to read it whether my intent was to wound or bully someone or just share my opinion on whether keeping birds and fish as pets is a good life for them. I'll never let being politically correct get in the way of my passion for animal welfare but I won't bash anyone when sharing my thoughts and passions either. It's quite possible to be passionate for animal well-being without being thought nasty and ugly.

Originally Posted by megansmomma (Post 4547367)

I don't think that I'm missing your point at all. When people are dictated how to post, the verbiage to be used, the tone is not acceptable and then they are policed it can also have the opposite effect. I've been told numerous times outside of the YT forum that there is so much knowledge held within the forum regardless of the few complainers it is still the "go to" place for good sound knowledgable information. All this thread really creates IMO is a place that a few busy bodies send members to whine about not being treated fairly or whatever the complaint of the day might be. Everyone has a different way of expressing their point, opinion, thought. That is why in the grander scheme each individual enjoys different (for example) authors. It is the way they present themselves just the same way that we each have a varying style of writing. Everyone is an individual and has a personal style. To tell people that they are not expressing themselves to another's liking to me is a way to drive members away as well. The witch hunting is another. Get's old really fast!

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom (Post 4465267)

Hi all -

Firstly, I just want to say what a wonderful community YT is, and that I hope this thread can help us all think about improving our presence here during interactions…even if it just means tweaking our posting styles a bit.

I’ll get right to the point: we’ve been receiving a huge amount of communications from members who are concerned/venting about some of the harshness and aggression they’re seeing/perceiving in the community. This harshness pertains to both new and old members - on both the receiving and giving end of things. We’re hearing there is a pervasive feeling that members are being driven away via disrespectful, snarky, disdainful, extremely aggressive, and downright mean posting styles. This needs to stop.

We cannot be a community or call ourselves a community if we don’t come together sometimes, as a collective, and agree to do better. Well, it’s time to come together and agree to do better...to be more aware of giving (yes, GIVING) respect, to be more kind, to be more compassionate and supportive.

No one is asking anyone to be a Pollyanna or to not be themselves. We’re merely asking that, in your interactions, you strive harder and TRULY commit to what is mentioned in the previous paragraph. It’s not that hard -- and if it IS hard for you, then perhaps this isn’t the right board for you and perhaps it’s time to move on from YT to find an environment that does fit.
We are not asking much. If you do think we’re asking too much, then 1) this is not the community for you 2) you’re being self-centered and 3) you need to develop your insight into human beings, other than yourself. WE ARE NOT ASKING MUCH.

It is okay to speak your mind here at YT. However, it is not okay to simply justify any means you deem fit to meet your end goal. We believe in being STRONG advocates for dogs/animals - but not, however, at the expense of the human being behind that dependent and innocent dog. Please do not assume or think that it’s okay to behave any way you please merely because it’s in the interest of an animal. We all need to be decent here and post w/ a modicum of respect…EVEN when and especially when dealing with someone who is doing everything we are personally opposed to. Your opposition to another human being’s behavior does *not* mean you are right, nor is it a fact that they are universally and categorically wrong….it merely means you have opposition. Please learn to deal with it because it’s not going away.

If we see excessively negative and/or badgering posting styles, we will be warning people or suspending people and/or permanently banning members’ accounts.

This is an open discussion in terms of feedback, thoughts, concerns….so please feel free to share. This post is not aimed at anyone, so please do not make assumptions. It was driven by the sheer amount of concerned members who expressed themselves via PMs and on the forum itself. Thank you for reading! :)

Originally Posted by Faerie54 (Post 4547385)

Kindness begets kindness, negative breeds negative. Yes, internet = free speech and a myriad of sites permit us to speak in any manner, including bullying. NOT on Yorkie Talk and I am glad the constraints are in place.
Thank you, also, for quoting Ann's initial words concerning this burgeoning and unfortunate issue. Her fair and clearly voiced rules bear repeating and re-reading.

Originally Posted by Nancy1999 (Post 4547365)

We're on the same page here, I think it's great to give an opinion, but we have to be careful and not sound like, "I'm right and you're wrong." There are many choices in this world and we are all at different stages at what we think is morally right when it comes to animal welfare. I think I'm more open to change when someone tells me their thoughts without making me feel guilty about my own choices. I think we all have to remind ourselves what is the goal here, preaching or teaching?

Originally Posted by yorkietalkjilly (Post 4547400)

And you just seemed a little preachy yourself, maybe? So do many other of the posts here. Many seem outright self-righteous. Other posters sound like outright scolds. Nothing wrong with preaching, teaching, self-righteousness, passion, scolding and compelling emotions as long as our words remain civil, not mean-spirited or intended to wound, as I see it, Nancy. Preach on. I'm fine with being called a preacher, teacher or an animal-loving nag, as long as people don't think I'm intentionally gruff and ugly or out to bully or oppress them. Most of us likely think we are right in the points we're making but why be spiteful and nasty about it is, I think, what Ann, you and others of us are saying. Ann started this thread to ask us to be more positive and kinder in our posts, not less preachy/teachy or passionate.

The main point many of us are making here is to try to encourage others to be a little kinder and gentler in sharing our content while not losing our passion or feeling inhibited in our posts due to P.C.-ism or fear of getting suspended or banned for sharing our opinions, advice or information within the rules of the forum.

Originally Posted by Nancy1999 (Post 4547415)

Oh no, well I guess I failed then, because I really don't want to come off as judging others! I want to be teachy, not preachy, and I guess that's how I differentiate between the words. I think Ann has taught me more about how to respond to others than anyone, she sets such a great example, and is so kind without making me feel like she's judging me. I know her type of writing allows me to consider different thoughts, without holding on to my own viewpoint so tightly. I just think it's so easy to rip someone apart and be nasty and snarky, but does that really make us feel better about ourselves in the long run? And it sure doesn't help teach anyone anything.

I've really tried to be more open to change in this area, and while it's not easy, I'm hoping I can continue to do better. I guess I wonder why some of us don't think that we can do better or that we don't need to do better. Isn't there always room for improvement and why does this threaten some so much? I'm truly confused about his. It's like some hear that we are demanding they all become Stepford wives!

Originally Posted by lynzy420 (Post 4547419)

Omg, omg, omg, omg, omg, omg, omg, omg, omg.......my brain hurts....

Originally Posted by lynzy420 (Post 4547419)

Omg, omg, omg, omg, omg, omg, omg, omg, omg.......my brain hurts....

Originally Posted by yorkietalkjilly (Post 4547421)

Haha. No, I was just making a point, Nancy. You're fine. As long as nothing is harsh, bullying or just outright mean, why not post as we'd like - a tad preachy, a little teachy or using good old straight talk when advocating for animals or our personal principles? I say anything goes as long as we share our opinions, advice and information with as little rancor as possible and stick to the forum rules.

I know when I first joined this forum, I wouldn't reply to some posters, they were so abrupt and short-tempered, to me. I got over it and began to post my passions but many here don't and never, ever post on anything and some won't post on anything controversial - I've gotten the PM's and emails saying that from some members. I hate that that happens here but it does. I think that's the thing Ann is trying to stop with this thread. But if she adds that we should stop sounding preachy, a lot of us might be in trouble, me first!!! lol

Originally Posted by Nancy1999 (Post 4547427)

I agree, I don't mind if someone else is preachy, it's just not effective in making me change my mind! Yes, I too get a lot of PM's saying that people would like to post something, but they are afraid. I guess because I'm on the welcoming committee I hear more from new members, but this is a definite "perception" many newbies have. As Doctor Phil says, "perception is reality" it may not be your reality, but it is reality.

Originally Posted by yorkietalkjilly (Post 4547433)

Practically everybody gets more than a little preachy at times if you read some of these threads so practically none of us are safe in that department but I sure hope some of the the meanness and harshness goes away. Seems that is what most complain and dislike most about YT.