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Old 01-07-2013, 06:50 AM   #1
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Default Times outs in crate good idea?

I have good new and bad news.
My Yorkie, Rider, is 6 months old and I have been crate training him for 2 months. Initially he was having some accidents in his crate occasionally even though I was taking him out freqently and giving him at least 5 minutes to do his thing. He now is not having problems in his crate and he sleeps in it at night.
I am finally getting him fairly housebroke by ringing bell on door knob to go out. Now my problem is that when I am home he wants to go out every 2-5 minutes on a average. Many times he squats like he is going but upon close inspection no pee many times or he just seems to be trying to find scents in the grass (I live in an apt. complex) Sometimes he will get pieces of dead grass to chew on which I try to promptly remove.
A fellow suggested that when he does not go after he rings the bell, that upon coming back in I put him in his crate for a time out for about 5 minutes. He does not like this (when I am home and whines) He is about to wear me out with the freqent trips outside but I always try to give him the benifit of the doubt and take him anyway as I don't want mistakes in the house.
Question should I just be persistant and continue these time outs or is there a better way.
P.S. when I am home I try to keep him anchored one a retractable leash in the living room where he can play but I can monitor him more closely.
Thanks for any advice in advance.
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Old 01-07-2013, 07:16 AM   #2
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I would not use the crate for time outs because the crate is supposed to be your dog's safe place, not a punishment.

I also would not give time outs for going outside and not going potty. Your dog will not understand why he is being crated.

My guys live to go outside. It is their favorite thing in the world and they can't wait for their big outings.

Try to balance potty training with the understanding that your boy loves going outside. Start a daily routine of having a longer period outdoors at a specific time and your boy will start to anticipate that daily and not be so anxious to get outside all day long. My boys know they are going to get their big walk at a certain time in the afternoon and they anticipate it the same way they do their meals. Then they aren't as anxious wondering when they will ever get out.
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Old 01-07-2013, 07:54 AM   #3
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Absolutely agree with this.

I finally decided when I start housebreaking I just take 2 weeks and devote it to this task when I'm home and take the dog out every 30 minutes. Inside, he's watched like a hawk for "warning" behavior of needing to go and taken out immediately if he shows any and crated if I have to leave the room or house. Eventually you can extend the frequency of how often you take them out but that initial going out all of the time soon gets in their mind that if they can be going out soon where they can leave their scent out there where all other dogs and cats can "enjoy" it, just hold it until the few minutes pass until they are out there again. It does make for a good foundation though it is exhausting. It sure gets it in the dog's mind that outside is the place to "go" and by holding themselves back inside, it will soon be time to go out again. But you have to be persistent and watchful and keep them from having "accidents" in the house to further reinforce this. I was working when I got each of my last 2 Yorkies so I could only do that schedule when home but they very soon learned that when Mommie is home, we go outside all the time at first.
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Old 01-07-2013, 07:58 AM   #4
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Some people crate, others do not. I don't think I would crate for a time out, because then it becomes the punishment room.

Your Yorkie is a puppy and will be one for at least another year. You have to consider that with regards to potty training. Our yorkie is almost 2 years old. When he was 6 months, he would want to potty often. We learned his bladder wasn't developed that young and therefore he would "tinkle" a small amount at a time. That went on for quite a while. Now that boy can stand there, raise that leg and pee for what seems like an eternity. Natalie and I just stand there are laugh. So just remember you have a baby on your hands.

As for outside, they like to go outside. Let them go outside. They are dogs!

I can't say I agree with the leash inside situation. Just doesn't seem fair to the poor guy.

Time is your friend here.
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Old 01-07-2013, 08:09 AM   #5
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I crate for punishment. Troy knows when he has done something wrong and when he has he will put himself in a time out before I even get to him.
As for the potty training issue, if you're consistent in taking him out it works. I think a schedule is best. Especially in the beginning.
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Old 01-07-2013, 10:06 AM   #6
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I understand that puppies have to go more freqently and can't hold it as long and like to go outside and see whats going on. I am also trilled that my little boy seems to be finally "getting it" and ringing a bell to tell me that he wants to go outside.
Fortunately I am retired and can give him more attention however. I am suppose to be the alfa dog and not him. When I take him out and he even acts like he is peeing I try to give him the benifit of the doubt. If he has just gone out and has acted like he peed and comes up to me like he is finished and freely walks into the house with me. I sit down to do something and 2 minutes later he is ringing the bell again, I will generally take him out again just to be sure and don't want to stop him from ringing the bell, but then he piddles around again without doing anything (I eventually get tired of standing around in the cold and for lack of anything else that I can think of put him in the crate for a short time. I know that it is suppose to be a safe place but I don't want him to stop ringing the bell and I don't want him to think that he has found a new way that he can manipulate me.
Anyway I am thinking that I don't want him to associate ringing a bell with anything other then going out to potty as this may become something more permanent if not stopped while he is a puppy. Maybe I am wrong. He is a big part of my life but not all of it.
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Old 01-07-2013, 10:14 AM   #7
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I personally would not use the crate as a punishment or he may learn to hate and resent it when it should be his safety his little "man cave"
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Old 01-07-2013, 10:23 AM   #8
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I was also advised that the crate should not be used for punishment or timeouts (but trust me there where a couple of time durining puppyhood when I put her in there just to get her out of my hair). Their crate is a place they want to go, they put themself in timeout but think of it as a "cool" kids bedroom for them.

Potty training was so frustrating for me, it took a long time and I had to use parts of a lot of different methods since Sophie Kate will not tell me when she has to potty. Crate training is what really started the good habits, she went in the crate at night and when I was gone, when I was home she was with me and not unsupervised. A schedule is another method I had to use and still keep, we go out every three hours and we stay out until she goes. I also taught her a command for going, it only works for me for her urinating but that is good enough ("go potty" is the command, I was taught to say it when she starts going at first and reward after that worked).

It sounds like your guy wants to go for a walk when you take him out, is that possible? He is associating the ringing the bell with going outside.
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Old 01-07-2013, 10:47 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximo View Post
I would not use the crate for time outs because the crate is supposed to be your dog's safe place, not a punishment.

I also would not give time outs for going outside and not going potty. Your dog will not understand why he is being crated.

My guys live to go outside. It is their favorite thing in the world and they can't wait for their big outings.

Try to balance potty training with the understanding that your boy loves going outside. Start a daily routine of having a longer period outdoors at a specific time and your boy will start to anticipate that daily and not be so anxious to get outside all day long. My boys know they are going to get their big walk at a certain time in the afternoon and they anticipate it the same way they do their meals. Then they aren't as anxious wondering when they will ever get out.

REally love this suggestion. Regular walks at approximately regular times is a life saver for active pups!
And I know sometimes life gets in the way, and we are 1/2 hr later or earlier, or weather is extreme, etc. But dogs just love to go on walks; all dogs do.

It does sound to me like your pup is starting to use the bell to get outside more often. Take him on walks more, and tire him out! Razzle if I don't cause it's too rainey or cold walk hiim, will ring his bell constantly! He believes he thinks he "sees" something in the backyard and really really really needs to go outside to chase it. Magic on the other hand who used to ring the bell for potty, now thinks he is too old and manly to do what the scamp does, he now just stands by the patio door, and will look back at me; once in a while he will give a very brief and gentle ring if I happen to be in the kitchen so I can't see him....

My rule is I let out on two consecutive rings, ie twice, the third time is a nope not going out!. Particularly if I know they have done their business a couple times already.
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Old 01-07-2013, 11:47 AM   #10
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Lola is a potty bell ringer and 100% housebroken. I also went through the same thing, just ringing to go outside. This is what I did, after coming back inside from doing a good potty I would tie the bell up out of her reach and set the kitchen timer for an hour. Then take it down when the timer rang, as she started to hold herself longer the bell stayed up longer, the key is to set an alarm so you do not forget. Also some other things that seem to help are, first I don't wait around, I go with the leash and do not give her lots of room or time, and then wham as soon as she goes it's right back inside. Call me mean but we never play or waste time after or before potty, it's always right back inside. Therefore she gets the message ringing the bell was to potty not to play. Secondly I also say the same potty commands over and over and always as we go out the door after she rang the bell. I say Lola go potty in a command voice. I also say good girl Lola went pee or Lola went poop and I know she understands what the words mean because often when she goes out to poop she will not pee and then I keep saying Lola go pee, Lola go pee and she finally squats down. This is great when you are in a hurry. Thirdly we go out to potty and go out to play through different doors. I prefer she do her business at home, so before a walk we go out to potty via the front door, then come back in, she gets a treat and then we exit through the side door. Since you live in an apartment that will probably not work for you, but you could still come back inside get a treat and then go out. Another thing you could try is when going out to potty is to carry your dog to the potty spot and not let him enjoy the walk to and fro, save that for play time and walks.

I no longer tie the bell up so once in a while she will ring it shortly after she goes out, if she had peed but not pooped in a while then I take her out again, however if she has done both then I ignore her because I know her habits and that she can hold herself. My friend has a larger dog and it's the same thing, the dog is about 6 and can hold herself for a good 7 hours so if she starts ringing it right after she has gone she is ignored as well. But belive me if Lola really has to go and I ignore her she bats the crap out of the bell and does not give up. I realize you are not there yet but you sound determined so you will get there.
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Old 01-07-2013, 01:29 PM   #11
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Thirdly we go out to potty and go out to play through different doors.
Using keywords and having a different routine for each thing are great ideas!

As DBlain wrote, if different exit doors aren't an option, find some other way to vary the two activities -- potty outings vs walks/play outing -- and send the signal to your dog.

BTW, I like the tethering indoors while potty training. It's no different than limiting freedom with baby gates and whatnot to ensure close supervision until fully trained.
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Old 01-07-2013, 02:20 PM   #12
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I used a nylon tie out cord inside the house with Lola when she was a puppy. I did not want her to always be in her crate but I wanted to watch her. I got soooooooooo lucky with Lola she took to going potty outside right away. Oddly enough I wanted her to go on pads in my laundry room just like my last dog. But she would have none of that, she would go for hours in the morning holding herself locked in the laundry. I would be checking over and over and sometimes it would take three hours for her to finally go. Then what a mess it would be, she would go off the pad and by the door and she would walk and jump through it, it would be on the walls and the molding. A neigbhor that is a retired vet told me put her outside, he said it's not natural for a dog to go on paper and after several friends said the same thing I finally tried it. But since I do not have a fence and in MI we get a lot of snow and rain I thought inside was easier. But I was wrong this is much easier but my set up is good, we can go right out the front door to grass and I can stand in the doorway or under the porch while she is on a short tie out. I was determined not to have to stand outside forever walking her around while she sniffed every bush. I have a neighbor that has two dogs and no fence every time they take their dogs out to potty they have to take them for a walk separately, that would drive me nuts, especially late at night, in the rain and LOL especially after a few glasses of wine in my PJ's. I often wonder what my other neighbor thinks, in the summer his bedroom window is not far from the fence line and I am out there with a deep loud voice telling Lola to pee and to poop, thankfully she goes pretty fast This is one of the main reasons I will not get another dog. Lola has been the only one out of 5 that I can say is 100% housebroken, so I don't want to upset the apple cart.
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Old 01-07-2013, 04:01 PM   #13
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Yes my first Yorkie spoiled me I guess. I took two week vacation from work and after that he was pretty much potty trained. In his 13 1/2 years I would doubt that he had over 5-10 accidents in the house.
Usually in the afternoon after my current one pees. I take him for a walk to the mailbox(which is a couple of blocks) when we get back to the apt. I give him a chance to do his second poop on the day and many times that is when he goes.
I also give him comands for peeing and at the times of the day that he usually poops, I start telling him to go now and that he has the right place. He will usually turn circles afew times before he goes.
I think tieing the bell up and setting a timer may be benifitial. I hadn't thought of that.
Also ignoring his bell ringing after about the 2nd frequent trip outside is starting to be my new norm as I am getting tired of freqently putting on a coat and hat to go out and stand in the cold.
I know that he has some bladder and bowel control because I have left him several times in his crate for about four hours and no accidents in the crate for a couple of weeks.
I know that he is making progress. I am just looking for thoughts that might help speed up the process.
Thanks for letting me pick your brains!
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