Tail docking

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by nsyorkies

I strongly agree with everything you have said except for '' docking a tail hurts a minute and the dogs forgets about it almost as soon as it's over with" from my experience it is tender for about a week. I don't know if everyone( I know some of you have) has read the posts to "dock or not" where I posted a youtube video of a tail docking, I posted a couple of days ago. I think it is worth watching!

I also loved the quote (in someones signature) "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals. Immanuel Kant " Very appropriate for this post I must say.

I also love Yorkitalk, the discussion has been very intelligent and thought provoking! I think I might just leave my next litters tail un docked and see how it goes!!!!

I'm glad you agree with most of my post but again, in my experience with the litters I've had docked there were no tenderness after the first 5 to 10 minutes....maybe yours wasn't done right? I've had 11 puppies tails docked and I have to honestly say I've never had that happen.
And by the way my yorkies are treated better than I treat my husband LOL...he sometimes gets jealous of the dogs because I always say...ever given the ultimatime of him or them I'll show him the door

Donna

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by MyPann

Don't tell Pann that lol he thinks it's wabbit season!

but if someone is truly against it and decides to get their pup from a reputable breeder I bet that a simple request to the breeder and they would prob be willing to leave your future love unaltered. Just a thought tho

Well with a reputable show breeder from the YTCA.org website you'd have a hard time finding a yorkie with a full tail due to the fact that we dock our yorkie tails at around 3 to 5 days because I personally am breeding for the betterment of the breed and my next show dog and since the standard calls for a docked tail and at 3 or 5 days old I can't make a decision as to which pup would be of pet quality so tails have to be docked because I won't dock a tail at a later date. So, unless someone is just breeding for pet quality pups you might find that breeder that will keep a tail but again it comes back to breeding to the best representation of the breed and keeping it too the breed standard and of course that calls for a docked tail. I'm just not into breeding for strictly pet yorkies for the pet population...not to say I won't have a pet quality in the litter but the tail will be docked...but I will guarantee a healthy pup with all the health testing available but again with a docked tail.

Donna

[friscomom]

Originally Posted by nsyorkies

I think I might just leave my next litters tail un docked and see how it goes!!!!

!!!!!!!

HAPPINESS AND MUCH WAGGING TO YOU AND THEM!
What a joy to read those words.

Oh Canada!

[friscomom]

Why don't people see removal of a dogs' ability to communicate, express itself, wag, for the rest of its life, harmful?? In another thread I likened slicing off babies' lips. Because what if they got stuck to a frozen bus in the schoolyard one day otherwise, then the kid would really bleed. Is that the same?

To those complaining that someone is encroaching on their choice:

If one in a hundred dogs should suffer an accidental tail injury, everyone is sorry and the doctor goes to work. Were it human it would receive a prosthetic and go on to the olympics. Damn good day in the field, whatever.

If a hundred in a hundred puppies are mutilated for the sake of - what was it again? Possibility it might be manipulated to win prizes from the AKC?? (What is the value of an AKC prize?) Or style, cleanliness?? (a dog?? clean? LOL! it's a cat you wanted). Safety? What percent of yorkie ppl show, or hunt their dogs? Really, what percent even romp them in the woods?

They don't know who wants the pups, they cut ALL the tails. They don't think on it, it's standard horrific procedure thoughtlessly applied on Day X. I'm missing it - where is the 'choice' in that, for breeders, for buyers, for the dog, for the AKC, for anyone?

Breeders have maintained their hold on 'choice' for a couple hundred years. Dog's turn this century, ok? Fair? If my dog thought I was doing this to puppies I'm sure I'd never see his tail again, it'd be permanently plastered between his legs. Dogs are AWESOME and we're the only species on earth this intertwined, we owe it to them to let dog wag tail, not tail wag dog.

And nsyorkies, you totally rock.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by friscomom

Why don't people see removal of a dogs' ability to communicate, express itself, wag, for the rest of its life, harmful?? In another thread I likened slicing off babies' lips. Because what if they got stuck to a frozen bus in the schoolyard one day otherwise, then the kid would really bleed. Is that the same?

To those complaining that someone is encroaching on their choice:

If one in a hundred dogs should suffer an accidental tail injury, everyone is sorry and the doctor goes to work. Were it human it would receive a prosthetic and go on to the olympics. Damn good day in the field, whatever.

If a hundred in a hundred puppies are mutilated for the sake of - what was it again? Possibility it might be manipulated to win prizes from the AKC?? (What is the value of an AKC prize?) Or style, cleanliness?? (a dog?? clean? LOL! it's a cat you wanted). Safety? What percent of yorkie ppl show, or hunt their dogs? Really, what percent even romp them in the woods?

They don't know who wants the pups, they cut ALL the tails. They don't think on it, it's standard horrific procedure thoughtlessly applied on Day X. I'm missing it - where is the 'choice' in that, for breeders, for buyers, for the dog, for the AKC, for anyone?

Breeders have maintained their hold on 'choice' for a couple hundred years. Dog's turn this century, ok? Fair? If my dog thought I was doing this to puppies I'm sure I'd never see his tail again, it'd be permanently plastered between his legs. Dogs are AWESOME and we're the only species on earth this intertwined, we owe it to them to let dog wag tail, not tail wag dog.

And nsyorkies, you totally rock.

Docking there tails doesn't take away there ability to communicate they have a stub that wags and stuff. Have you ever thought of working for PETA because your acting so extreme like they do. Sorry if that offends anyone but I'm really getting annoyed at this person and the two posts that where closed that they had were so extreme and very uncalled.

[YorkieShadow]

I do like the looks of the tails being docked and feel that the dew claws are best to be removed. I love the short little stubs but also love the looks of the standard docked tail and have seen some with full tail that are beautiful too.

I do agree that it does hurt no matter how correct and proper it is done. maybe not for long but yes I believe it hurts them.

[Woogie Man]

Originally Posted by friscomom

Those profiting from animal industries who hold to these archaic 17th century-type belief systems will soon be giving way to modern consciousness, which will not tolerate atrocities, just to stay in business.

Atrocity...really? You do a dis-service to all people who have suffered real atrocities by comparing docking a tail to what they've been through. That word is so inappropriate here as tail docking rises no where near the level of 'atrocity'. The SS, Pol Pot and Idi Amin committed atrocities.....and breeders and vets are somehow guilty of the same by docking a pup's tail?

My vet docks my pups tails and I've never seen any distress from the procedure nor have I had any issues after, such as infections. Admittedly, I've never watched it being done but I've always waited just next door and have never heard a peep out of them and I was close enough that I would have heard.

I don't like seeing the little nubby tails, but a properly docked tail is quite beautiful and very expressive. I did have to tell my vet just where to cut to get a good length. Most things I've read say to cut where the brown meets the black on the bottom side of the tail. My experience has been to cut the tail just beyond that point to arrive at a nice crop after healing.

Not only have Yorkies' tails traditionally been cut, but, in the early days, a great many of them had their ears cropped, too. Nowadays, we just have some with floppy ears.

Despite my signature, my own preference is for a docked tail. Their little tails tell me plenty and I've yet to have one veer off course due to their docked tails.

[QuickSilver]

Originally Posted by Woogie Man

Atrocity...really? You do a dis-service to all people who have suffered real atrocities by comparing docking a tail to what they've been through. That word is so inappropriate here as tail docking rises no where near the level of 'atrocity'. The SS, Pol Pot and Idi Amin committed atrocities.....and breeders and vets are somehow guilty of the same by docking a pup's tail?

My vet docks my pups tails and I've never seen any distress from the procedure nor have I had any issues after, such as infections. Admittedly, I've never watched it being done but I've always waited just next door and have never heard a peep out of them and I was close enough that I would have heard.

I don't like seeing the little nubby tails, but a properly docked tail is quite beautiful and very expressive. I did have to tell my vet just where to cut to get a good length. Most things I've read say to cut where the brown meets the black on the bottom side of the tail. My experience has been to cut the tail just beyond that point to arrive at a nice crop after healing.

Not only have Yorkies' tails traditionally been cut, but, in the early days, a great many of them had their ears cropped, too. Nowadays, we just have some with floppy ears.

Despite my signature, my own preference is for a docked tail. Their little tails tell me plenty and I've yet to have one veer off course due to their docked tails.

Ah, but how would you know?

I guess Thor's tail must be cropped closer than what standard calls for. He doesn't even have a stump, it's just a nub. As I've said, I grow the hair on his tail out as much as possible. Before I did that, I really couldn't see it at all. I literally could not tell if he was wagging his tail, and even now, it's not always clear.

[yorkie mad]

I think this is the most polite debate yet!
Well done everyone at last we are all listening to each other instead of bitching. Lots to learn from this thread.
I don't like oreo's.

[Woogie Man]

Originally Posted by QuickSilver

Ah, but how would you know?

I guess Thor's tail must be cropped closer than what standard calls for. He doesn't even have a stump, it's just a nub. As I've said, I grow the hair on his tail out as much as possible. Before I did that, I really couldn't see it at all. I literally could not tell if he was wagging his tail, and even now, it's not always clear.

Easy, i just give them a field sobriety test .

Yes, it does sound like your Thor has a tail cropped too close. The standard calls for a tail to be cut to a medium length and carried slightly above the level of the back. I wonder how many folks' (that are against cropping) opinions are shaped by dogs with a bad crop. My Caty has a bad crop and I call her my little 'tic-toc girl' because of the way her nub wags.

[mommadog1]

Originally Posted by Britster

I do agree that puppy mills and BYB's are a bigger issue.

But humans getting cosmetic surgery is totally different, just saying. Most people choose to get breast implants, or a face lift, etc, and I don't have anything against it. If it makes them happy... whatever, go for it. Dogs don't have a choice so it's different.

And. I do like the chocolate oreos.

Thank you for saying what I was about to say I agree completely. humans can say yes or no, and make choices, dogs can't, so they do not even compare.

I dunk my Oreo's, oh what heaven... but I also love the mint ones covered in chocolate...oh yummmmy....dang now I have a crave for some..lol

[mommadog1]

Originally Posted by friscomom

Many might be familiar with the saying, 'As goes California...' By ANNA SCHECTER Jan. 26, 2010
WATCH: Hidden Camera Video of Tail Docking - ABC News

That just makes me sick! I didn't even know dairy farmers did that until we heard about CA trying to put a stop to it. The de-horning, well all I have to say about that is, it is beyond cruel. And them kicking the animal as it flops about in serious pain and distress.

And it sure didn't look like they enjoyed having their tails burned and tore off either..gawd, whats wrong with people. How can those people stand there and do that and not have 1 ounce of compassion for that animal.

[mommadog1]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

how can she even decide on an issue in such a short time unless she's thinking with her emotions in a knee-jerk response? Like I said earlier I wish that there were restrictions, on who could do it, and what age, but no one's trying to pass those laws, they just want to outlaw it. I guess I'm choosing to believe the word of those people who have studied it as well as those who have experience doing it.

Although I don't like tail docking I support others rights to do so. I agree with everything you said above.

It seems if someone doesn't like something becomes a group, and then a movement to just ban it, period, no middle ground. It always seems "it's all or nothing" with some people and groups. It just gets them that much closer to banning the ownership of animals. And here I am speaking of some specific animal rights group, not individuals on this board.

[mommadog1]

Originally Posted by QuickSilver

Oh, I meant to make a suggestion for the breeders here who either dock their pups tails, or have the vet do it - why not make a video for uTube showing how it's done? If the pups show mild distress, you can also film them getting their nails cut or something else, and demonstrate that they don't seem bothered.

The only vids I've seen show the pups acting *very* distressed, and that weighed against assurances that it's not really painful, well, seeing is believing.

You know, this is a really good idea!!! Show people how the puppies sleep right through it, or if they whimper showing mild, to no pain response. And also after as they are with their mothers after the procedure. I agree, the only video's i have seen are the ones where pups are in distress.

[mommadog1]

Originally Posted by MaddiesMommie

One site even gave a description comparing banding a tail to clamping an umbilical cord.

I have come to the conclusion I am not convinced that when done correctly, and not with kitchen scissors, it is painful to the puppy.

There certainly are 'bigger fish to fry' but this also an issue I think is worth discussing. I have no personal preference. When searching for Maddie, I didn't even ask about her tail. IF she had a tail, it would just be more to love I guess.

omg i haven't heard that one before.. HA there is NO feeling, no nerves in the umbilical cord.

Most of the time I am not even looking at my dog's hind end anyhow..teehee