Judy Marksbury- Show Breeder

[gemy]

Originally Posted by k9lover

I am the breeder of Max. I have never been on this forum before but I had to respond to all of these untrue comments. I have been raising and showing this wonderful breed for 30 years. I was so happy to get a call from this nice couple.This litter was born June,1 and had been kept to see if there was a show puppy in the litter. I have imported several dogs from Europe over the last 8 years to improve my breeding program. This mother is from 2 imported dogs and was shown but is now cut down in a puppy cut.I showed this couple both parents and the litter while they were here. They chose Max after 2 hours of talking and playing with the puppies. I was happy for them to have him as Shelia is ill and needed a new yorkie friend. It wasn't until after they took him home and went to their vet that the dry eye problem as discovered. My vet and I had not seen any symptoms and I have never had this condition in a puppy. I was shocked and I offered to take him back and give the a girl they had really liked also. They said they wanted to keep him anyway but I told them I would take him back and give them a replacement baby which was what my contract states. I was told the puppy had 2 parasites but to date I have seen nothing from their vet, I have not had anyone become ill here at my house. I do know that stress and change to a new home can trigger symptoms and if it is the case I will be happy to pay for his vet bills for his meds. In the meantime I am very hurt they they have made me look like a liar and a bad breeder. I spend all my time promoting good breeding programs and education about the breed in many clubs I am also involved in yorkie rescue.. I have a contract with these owners and will be happy to post it . The puppies are replaced in the event there is a serious or fatal genetic illness. I am trying to do that and they refuse.As for the picture of Treasure is was just mis-labeled, I admit that but remember they saw both parents here in person. what more can I do??? Sincerely Judy

Thank you for your posting, it is always good to hear both sides of a story.

I am now going to respond to your question of what more can I do?

a) Get the vet records from the purchaser either faxed or scanned into an email for you
b) Receive permission from the owner to talk with her vet personally
c) A replacement puppy is not much of a health warranty, if that is their only option. You and I know very well that puppy owners bond with their selection very early on; therefor the likelihood of a return of a puppy is slim to none. You have heard from at least two breeders here, and now myself that our guarantees work differently. I by contract will refund up to the purchase price of the dog for serious and debilitating diseases, and depending upon the situation-ie the disease was lethal and the pup died, will also offer a free future puppy.

d) If the contract and health guarantee was not sent out well in advance of the puppy visit, make that happen. Also spend some time with would be serious purchasers going over what you will cover and how, and what some of the clauses mean in your contract. A contract is at the minimal end of the scale a document that outlines what is expected from purchaser and seller. What happens if? And yes not every situation can be covered,but lawyers can help with the wording so that your intent is clear.

I do hope that you and your purchaser are able to come to a satisfactory resolution for this issue.

[dottiesyrky]

How did you read it re the vet bills? Am I still in the doghouse???? Although English is my first language, sometimes things can be misread or misinterpreted, and if I did that I was wrong.

[gemy]

Originally Posted by dottiesyrky

How did you read it re the vet bills? Am I still in the doghouse???? Although English is my first language, sometimes things can be misread or misinterpreted, and if I did that I was wrong.

Here is where and what she said:
"I have not had anyone become ill here at my house.
I do know that stress and change to a new home can trigger symptoms and if it is the case I will be happy to pay for his vet bills for his meds." She earlier on was talking about the parasites and not the dry eye.

Anyhoo that is how I read it.

[dottiesyrky]

Thank you for your reply. Reading the whole post again I see that she is probably referring to the parasites and you are right. It was wishful reading on my part and I apologize to you and all who read my wrong statement.
I wanted to know what the OP thought of the breeder's reply and hoped that something could be worked out. You and others have given her good advice as to how to do this. Lets hope she takes it.

[gemy]

Originally Posted by dottiesyrky

Thank you for your reply. Reading the whole post again I see that she is probably referring to the parasites and you are right. It was wishful reading on my part and I apologize to you and all who read my wrong statement.
I wanted to know what the OP thought of the breeder's reply and hoped that something could be worked out. You and others have given her good advice as to how to do this. Lets hope she takes it.

No need to apologize, in this case many eyes make light work

[Yorkieville200]

Originally Posted by Brooklynn

I'm so sorry to hear about little Max! I hope you can get the little guy better! I hope the breeder will reconsider and help out!
I personally would refund up to purchase price for vet bills and let one keep the puppy! I would also like to say this, puppy buyers also need to pay attention to the contract they sign and if it's not what you would like then find another breeder that has a contract you would be willing to sign! I hope AKC helps but if you signed the contract and it doesn't have anything about refunding money then they may uphold the contract that was signed like it would in a court of law. I personally think the breeder should help in vet bills up to the purchase price because that is what I would do!
I wish you good luck and hope al works out!! Get well soon little Max!

Donna Bird

Thank you, Donna.

You are abolutely right-we do need to pay close attention to the contracts we sign. But, I spoke at great length with this breeder, before my husband and I agreed to make the 1st trip to see the puppies.

I told her, upfront, that I have MS, and how I lost my precious little Kia, suddenly, and so unnecessarily. (She had symptoms just one day, and I called my former Vet, and he said it sounded like she may have an infected tooth, and if she still seemed stuffy in the morning and wasn't eating, to bring her into the Clinic in the morning.) She died in my hands at 6:22 the next morning. I couldn't leave my bedroom for 3 months, my MS progressed. I didn't socialize for 6 months, when I finally agreed to have lunch with my best friend of 42 years.

I told her that I had gotten Kia from Susan Harasim, and Susan's contract was also a replacement puppy, and I had said to Susan, "I could never give a puppy back", and Susan told me, that if Kia ever developed any health issues, and I wanted to keep her, she would help me with her medical bills, and if she died, she would give me another puppy.

Judy said, "I would do the same".

Patti has two girls from Susan, and she died have one tiny girl, Pixie, that died of renal failure, and Patti will tell you, that Susan did help her with Pixies medical bills and gave her another puppy.

So, I took Judy at her word. I never had any reason, to doubt her. I was blessed to have had 3 wonderful Show breeders entrust me with puppies over 30 years. So, I didn't feel I had anything to worry about signing the contract.

Please keep little Max in your prayers. When I cleaned his eyes this morning, with Collyrium, before I put the Tacrolimus drops in his left eye, I saw that his right eye was red with inflammation.

The Ophthamologist at Purdue in West LaFayette, In told our Vet o have us watch his right eye very closely, because it may yet deveop in his right eye.

So, I believe our Vet will do the Schirmer tear test in both his eyes on Tuesday.

[Yorkieville200]

Originally Posted by nanahas3

She already loves this puppy and she should be compensated for the vet bills. You also seem to have misrepresented the dam to another person how can that be a mistake?

Yes, we do love this puppy very much.

And we actually loved the picture of the Dam she sent us, that it was one of the main reasons, we chose to make the 1st trip to see the puppies at 12 weeks of age.

I had told Judy, that gustos mom, reminded us so much of our sweet Sydney, that we lost due to renal failure two years to the date, before we lost our little Kia.

I had hoped that our puppy would grow up to look like who I was told was his Dam.

I could see sending the wrong picture to one person, but two people?

And when my husband e-mailed her, and asked her to clarify that the picture, labled gustos mom's name is Treasure, because I wanted to make a puppy bookk.

She replied with a smile, "No, it is Treasure".

He had e-mailed her, because I was on bed rest, my MS has affected the use of my right hand, and my the Orthopedist Surgeon wanted me to rest, until I could get further MRI's. And on the contract next to Dam it said: Treasure.

I didn't think too much of it at the time. I just thought, "Well, gustos moms name is Treasure".

She told him that basically, he called her a liar, saying she didn't send us a picture of Treasure.

He forwarded her the e-mail she sent me with the picture of gustos mom, and she didn't reply.

She told him that she imported Treasure, but we received the 3 generation pedigree last week, and she did not import Treasure.

She told him that we had seen the Sire and Dam when we we there. Yes, we saw a two dogs, in her arms, while she stood at the counter with them, in the office of her boarding kennel.

They were both shaved down. And I know, how different a Yorkie looks shaved down, compared to when they are in full coat.

[Patti]

As Sheila said my Pixie and Roxie are from Susan. Roxie was given to me as a "replacement" for Dixie who died of congenital kidney failure. With Pixie, Dixie and Roxie I had no contract with Susan. I just knew she would stand by her reputation. When Dixie was diagnosed I called Susan, who cried along with me. A week later when she became to ill to go on I let her go. Susan felt terrible and said she would never have sold Dixie had she known. I knew she wouldn't. Why would she want to give someone a sick puppy and risk her reputation. I only had Dixie 5 weeks. I was heartbroken. Susan said when I was ready she would give me another puppy. She called a couple months later and offered me a little male that was comparable to Dixie. I wanted a female and she said his sister was available but was going to be bigger. I said I didn't care about the size. I went to see Roxie and fell in love. Susan also helped with the vet bills for Dixie even though I never asked. All of this with no contract. Susan and I keep in touch 7 years later. I don't know how anyone can expect you to give back a puppy you have fallen in love with. Sheila, I hope Max can overcome this eye condition and you can get some relief from the stress.

[Yorkieville200]

Originally Posted by Yorkiemom1

As a breeder, my primary concern is for any baby I bring into this world. Thank God, I have healthy dogs, from very long lines of healthy dogs, having healthy puppies. But you can always have something crop up with any puppy your have brought into the world. I staunchly believe and stand firmly on the belief that each one of my babies is MY ultimate responsibility, and as a person with a Christian attitude, I believe I can not sell a puppy and then watch that baby become ill and watch people that TRUSTED and BELIEVED in me and my ability and knowledge to produce a baby for them, end up with enormous vet bills and a baby that is anything less than what I sold him as. I know my buyers very well by the time they get their baby from me....I have weeded out scam artists and phoneys by the time they have submitted the application interview and we have talked. Our relationship deepens and stregthens as the weeks go by. These people TRUST me......I trust THEM. So in the two instances where I had people contact me about a health issue that had developed as the pups grew, even though the illnesses were NOT life threatening, they were a major expense. I did NOT offer to take the puppy back and replace the baby, I would have immediately taken my baby back if they had suggested that....but these owners adore their little babies....so in one case, I refunded 50% of the purchase price, and paid all the vet bills and continue to pay for the annual check up related to that issue. In the other situation, I again paid for all the vet bills, diagnostic testing and the surgery that was indicated. Again not a life threatening condition, but these people were not trying to jack me around and get a free pup or free medical care...my baby that I sold to them as a healthy pup, developed a condition that required surgery, and as a Christian formost, and a breeder with integrity and ethics,, I felt I needed to do this for my baby and my owners. I have to look at my face everytime I look in a mirror, and I felt I needed to do this. While this situation may not be covered "in your contract" , as a breeder, your reputation depends on your customer service. Your customers can absolutely "make or break" you. If this was me, I would do no less than refund half the price of the baby, who this owner is obviously attached to, and I would pay for the vet bills. I would be in contact with the specialists that was seeing the pup, getting first hand information about diagnosis and prognosis and required treatments. If that puppy does indeed have a congenital issue that could possibly lead to blindness in the future (?? maybe??), I would want these people singing my praises from the roof tops, rather than reporting me to every organization and breed club they could find, as well as the BBB, and last but not least, ON YT!!!!!! THIS Yorkie forum is read all over the world....a bad rap on this site can do you a lot of damage. It would be a lot cheaper to make these people happy and whole!

All 3 of my wonderful, beautiful girls came from breeders, just like you. They felt the very same way-they felt the puppies they brought into this world were their responsibility.

And each one of them stayed in touch me with all the years my girls lived. My 1st Yorkies breeder, had stopped Showing Yorkies, when my Tiffany had died, and when I called him to tell him of her death, he wanted to give me a Japanese Chin puppy. He didn't owe me a puppy. My tiny girl lived a long, healthy life. But, he wanted to help ease my heart-break.

He said when the last of his girls died, he began Showing the Japanese Chin.

Sadly, this morning, when I cleaned Maxwell's eyes with Collyrium, before putting the Tacrolimus drops in his left eye, I saw that now his right eye in red with inflammation.

The Ophthamologist at Purdue in West LaFayette, IN told our Vet to tell us to watch his right eye very closely, as it could yet develop in his right eye.

So, I believe our Vet will do the Schirmer tear test on both eyes on Tuesday.

My husband & I have been 100% diligent about cleaning his eyes, putting the Tacrolimus drops in his left eye, twice a day, and putting the Puralube Artificial tears in his eye, 4 times a day.

So, our little Maxwell has a long road ahead.

[Yorkieville200]

Originally Posted by Patti

As Sheila said my Pixie and Roxie are from Susan. Roxie was given to me as a "replacement" for Dixie who died of congenital kidney failure. With Pixie, Dixie and Roxie I had no contract with Susan. I just knew she would stand by her reputation. When Dixie was diagnosed I called Susan, who cried along with me. A week later when she became to ill to go on I let her go. Susan felt terrible and said she would never have sold Dixie had she known. I knew she wouldn't. Why would she want to give someone a sick puppy and risk her reputation. I only had Dixie 5 weeks. I was heartbroken. Susan said when I was ready she would give me another puppy. She called a couple months later and offered me a little male that was comparable to Dixie. I wanted a female and she said his sister was available but was going to be bigger. I said I didn't care about the size. I went to see Roxie and fell in love. Susan also helped with the vet bills for Dixie even though I never asked. All of this with no contract. Susan and I keep in touch 7 years later. I don't know how anyone can expect you to give back a puppy you have fallen in love with. Sheila, I hope Max can overcome this eye condition and you can get some relief from the stress.

Patti-I am so sorry my dear friend. I seem to get Pixie and Dixie's names mixed up. I'm extremely fatigued today.

Patti-Susan was always so thrilled when I sent her pictures of Kia.

And I remember, how she helped you with Dixie's medical bills. And gave you Roxie.

When I look at pictures of Pixie and Roxie, they remind me so much of my sweet little Kia. I still miss her and Sydney so much.

She always told me, "I need to know, if Kia every develops a genetic health condition, so I don't breed her Sire and Dam again."

I will always be so grateful that she entrusted my precious little Kia to me.

She told me, when I bought Kia, " I won't hold you to a contract, but, would you please wait until Kia is 10 months old to spay her, because if by any chance, she gets to 5#s, I want her in the Show ring".

We spoke often, and I called her when Kia was 10 months old, and I said, "Susan, the baby weighs 3 & 3/4#s", and she said, "Oh shoot, go ahead and spay her".

My Sydney was out of her lines on her Sire's side. And she ended up being Show quality, but the owner of her Dam, felt I needed her, more than she needed to keep her.

Sydney adopted Kia, as her baby.

[theporkieyorkie]

Originally Posted by dottiesyrky

Thank you for your reply. Reading the whole post again I see that she is probably referring to the parasites and you are right. It was wishful reading on my part and I apologize to you and all who read my wrong statement.
I wanted to know what the OP thought of the breeder's reply and hoped that something could be worked out. You and others have given her good advice as to how to do this. Lets hope she takes it.

While it's nice of the breeder to offer to pay for the parasite medicine, isn't that only a fraction of the vet bills this pup will incur considering it's ALSO got yeast infection and eye problems that will require surgery?!?

When I see a breeder that's insistent on replacing a pup, when an owner is wanting badly to keep it and help it....it makes me question the breeders motives.

If the breeder can't help the new owner with the vet bills, is she really going to bother to get the dog medical help when/if the dog is returned...or is she going to just leave the dog sick and hurting, or worse yet....will she just put it to sleep because thats the most cost effective thing?? Perhaps she will just sell it on down the road to some other unsuspecting customer.

All of the above would be something I expect out of a BYB or a puppymill owner.....NOT a show breeder who has the credentials this breeder has.


If the breeder is an ethical, quality breeder who cares about her pups, like she claims she does, she would get that puppy all of the medical help it needs when it was returned to her....and ethically, she could not resell it with it's health issues, so she'd have to find it a home...SOOOO, if that' the case... why not just save herself the difficulty of having to nurse the dog through surgery and the trouble of having to rehome the dog and just leave Max with his owners. Either way...she'd be paying vet bills...but she wouldn't hav to worry about rehoming the dog AND she wouldn't have had a pissed off customer that could potentially cost her business and her reputation.

Potentially....the amount of business she looses could far outweigh the cost of making this customer happy.

[Yorkiemom1]

Originally Posted by theporkieyorkie

While it's nice of the breeder to offer to pay for the parasite medicine, isn't that only a fraction of the vet bills this pup will incur considering it's ALSO got yeast infection and eye problems that will require surgery?!?

When I see a breeder that's insistent on replacing a pup, when an owner is wanting badly to keep it and help it....it makes me question the breeders motives.

If the breeder can't help the new owner with the vet bills, is she really going to bother to get the dog medical help when/if the dog is returned...or is she going to just leave the dog sick and hurting, or worse yet....will she just put it to sleep because thats the most cost effective thing?? Perhaps she will just sell it on down the road to some other unsuspecting customer.

All of the above would be something I expect out of a BYB or a puppymill owner.....NOT a show breeder who has the credentials this breeder has.


If the breeder is an ethical, quality breeder who cares about her pups, like she claims she does, she would get that puppy all of the medical help it needs when it was returned to her....and ethically, she could not resell it with it's health issues, so she'd have to find it a home...SOOOO, if that' the case... why not just save herself the difficulty of having to nurse the dog through surgery and the trouble of having to rehome the dog and just leave Max with his owners. Either way...she'd be paying vet bills...but she wouldn't hav to worry about rehoming the dog AND she wouldn't have had a pissed off customer that could potentially cost her business and her reputation. Potentially....the amount of business she looses could far outweigh the cost of making this customer happy.

[dottiesyrky]

I am so very sorry all this is happening to you. What with your health issues and poor Max with the bad eyes etc it must be hard to take the unfeeling attitude of the breeder as well. How could she renege on the many conversions she had with you and promises made? I thought that after her post she would take the advice of breeders here, see sense, and refund all you have spent on her sick pup. Does she not worry about her reputation if nothing else???? Don't give up yet, she may still do the right thing. I pray she does.
Poor little Max, the eye must be painful for him and now it looks like he may have trouble in the other one? I hope not. Thank God he has such a loving and caring mom to tend to him. So I implore the breeder to help you out with costs and refund the money for the pup, it is the only moral thing to do!!!!! Please take care of yourself too, but I know it is so hard when you have a sick pup that needs you so much. We are all rooting for you and Max. Get well baby. Prayers and hugs.

[Yorkieville200]

Originally Posted by gemy

Well said YorkieMom1.
I found a lovely report tool which lists a whole lot of genetic and or heritable diseases and what breeds are pre-disposed to same.

A must read for breeders and future puppy buyers.

http://www.hsvma.org/assets/pdfs/gui...-disorders.pdf

Dr Jean Dodds was a major contributor to this list.

Please note that there are 32 conditions listed on Yorkshire Terrier of which Lacrimal Gland Aplasia is one.

Thank you, Gemy for posting that link. I sent a link to the breeder when Maxwell was 1st diagnosed.

[Yorkieville200]

Originally Posted by dottiesyrky

I am sorry that you are having this sad issue with your pup and pray he can be cured. What do you think of the breeder's post? As an independent observer of all the posts it seems that the breeder in the YT post does offer explanations for the problems and also offers another pup and/ or payment of vet bills and meds.
Does her offer to discuss the case help you at all? I do hope this can be worked out so that you and she can have an amicable settlement. Good luck with this and with making little Max better.

I am so sorry-I didn't mean to ignore your posts. I've been so fatigued this past week.

Regarding the breeders post. She told my husband in an e-mail that she imported Treasure. Not true. I received the 3 generation pedigree last week, and she did not import Treasure.

As for importing her dogs-well, in 3 generations, there is only 1 Champion, so in my opinion, she is wasting her money importing dogs.

My little Kia from Susan Harasim had 98% red on both sides of her pedigree, in 5 generations. And Susan didn't import her dogs, although her dogs were shown Internationally.