Bile Acid Testing

[MyFairLacy]

this thread really scares me and honestly frustrates me beyond belief. How can someone be educated to the fact that yorkies are 36 times more likely to have a liver shunt than all other breeds combined and that a BAT will alert to a possible shunt and then NOT TEST THEIR DOGS? I just do NOT understand why a breeder would choose NOT to test their dogs...the only reasons I can see are being uneducated about it, laziness, unwillingness to spend time or money, or just doesn't care what they produce. There is absolutely NO reason to not BAT every Yorkie before it is bred. No wonder liver shunt is so prevelent...you have uneducated or uncaring puppymills and BYBs that just crank puppies out without a though...AND you have educated "hobby" breeders that still refuse to test their dogs! Come on people....LS has GOT to be stopped...TEST YOUR DOGS! A dog that physically meets the standard and looks great does NOT automatically mean it is healthy. I don't care if the dog has 10 generations of champions in its pedigree...it still needs to be tested. I will not and hope others will stop buying from breeders that do not health screen their dogs...reputable breeders health screen for everything they can. They do their very best to make sure they don't produce any offspring with genetic defects. They know their lines, they know the dogs in the pedigrees, they know the health of the dogs in the pedigrees, AND they health screen their dogs.

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by MyFairLacy

this thread really scares me and honestly frustrates me beyond belief. How can someone be educated to the fact that yorkies are 36 times more likely to have a liver shunt than all other breeds combined and that a BAT will alert to a possible shunt and then NOT TEST THEIR DOGS? I just do NOT understand why a breeder would choose NOT to test their dogs...the only reasons I can see are being uneducated about it, laziness, unwillingness to spend time or money, or just doesn't care what they produce. There is absolutely NO reason to not BAT every Yorkie before it is bred. No wonder liver shunt is so prevelent...you have uneducated or uncaring puppymills and BYBs that just crank puppies out without a though...AND you have educated "hobby" breeders that still refuse to test their dogs! Come on people....LS has GOT to be stopped...TEST YOUR DOGS! A dog that physically meets the standard and looks great does NOT automatically mean it is healthy. I don't care if the dog has 10 generations of champions in its pedigree...it still needs to be tested. I will not and hope others will stop buying from breeders that do not health screen their dogs...reputable breeders health screen for everything they can. They do their very best to make sure they don't produce any offspring with genetic defects. They know their lines, they know the dogs in the pedigrees, they know the health of the dogs in the pedigrees, AND they health screen their dogs.

Ok! I am a breeder/exhibitor and I haven't done BAT's on my dogs because they were done before I brought them into my home and because of their age, if they had a single shunt it should have shown itself by now, MVD is different than a shunt. I know my dogs pedigrees and know that shunts are not prevalient in the lines I have. However, for my peace of mind I will be testing Radar and Cammie within the next few weeks. I will also be OFA'ing them this summer. I will also be testing puppies before leaving my home and spaying and neutering! I breed for the betterment of the breed and I breed actually for myself and not the buying public per se...if I have a pet quality puppy then I place them but I strive for show dogs for myself not pets.
I hope this helps the OP.
Donna Bird
Brooklynn's Yorkshire Terriers

[MyFairLacy]

Originally Posted by Brooklynn

Ok! I am a breeder/exhibitor and I haven't done BAT's on my dogs because they were done before I brought them into my home and because of their age, if they had a single shunt it should have shown itself by now, MVD is different than a shunt. I know my dogs pedigrees and know that shunts are not prevalient in the lines I have. However, for my peace of mind I will be testing Radar and Cammie within the next few weeks. I will also be OFA'ing them this summer. I will also be testing puppies before leaving my home and spaying and neutering! I breed for the betterment of the breed and I breed actually for myself and not the buying public per se...if I have a pet quality puppy then I place them but I strive for show dogs for myself not pets.
I hope this helps the OP.
Donna Bird
Brooklynn's Yorkshire Terriers

You know I've always been impressed with your thoughts on breeding..I wish more breeders cared about breeding healthy dogs like you do

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by MyFairLacy

You know I've always been impressed with your thoughts on breeding..I wish more breeders cared about breeding healthy dogs like you do

Thank you! I just wish more breeders would educate themselves and study before they jump in to it! It's not an easy thing to do and it costs way more than one would expect if it's done correctly! It can cause heartache for the breeder, buyer and more so the animal if not done correctly.
Donna Bird
Brooklynn's Yorkshire Terriers

[my2boyz]

Originally Posted by Brooklynn

I just wish more breeders would educate themselves and study before they jump in to it! It's not an easy thing to do and it costs way more than one would expect if it's done correctly! It can cause heartache for the breeder, buyer and more so the animal if not done correctly.

I agree 100%

[MyFairLacy]

Originally Posted by Brooklynn

Thank you! I just wish more breeders would educate themselves and study before they jump in to it! It's not an easy thing to do and it costs way more than one would expect if it's done correctly! It can cause heartache for the breeder, buyer and more so the animal if not done correctly.
Donna Bird
Brooklynn's Yorkshire Terriers

[Mom 2 B]

I had been watching this thread in the beginning and have found it very interesting! As a person who just bought their first Yorkie (and don't have her until March 20th), it came down to this. I was seriously looking at two breeders. Neither did BAT. One said she would and that's who my puppy is coming from. My puppies BAT came back normal.

The second breeder did offer to BAT as well once they knew I had done my reseach and was not just talking nonsense. I would definitely consider this breeder for my next pup (I hear Yorkies are addictive).

I agree with those on here that think every puppy should be tested. I haven't educated myself enough on testing the adults to offer an opinion.

If you want breeders to test for BAT and they don't, DON'T buy their puppies!

Just my 2 cents.

[bjh]

Originally Posted by Mom 2 B

I had been watching this thread in the beginning and have found it very interesting! As a person who just bought their first Yorkie (and don't have her until March 20th), it came down to this. I was seriously looking at two breeders. Neither did BAT. One said she would and that's who my puppy is coming from. My puppies BAT came back normal.

The second breeder did offer to BAT as well once they knew I had done my reseach and was not just talking nonsense. I would definitely consider this breeder for my next pup (I hear Yorkies are addictive).

I agree with those on here that think every puppy should be tested. I haven't educated myself enough on testing the adults to offer an opinion.

If you want breeders to test for BAT and they don't, DON'T buy their puppies!

Just my 2 cents.

Congratulations on getting your first Yorkie. Just curious, how old was the pup when they did the BAT?

[scoobiedooiscoo]

Originally Posted by blitz

You know, from my interpretation of some of Sharon's work, she believes that symptomatic MVD dogs are extremely rare. It seems to me that she feels that symptomatic MVD dogs are most likely misdiagnosed shunts (not that she couldn't have MVD, as well. Have you spoken to her?

she has had the bat, ultra sound, and protien c test the last 2 said she has mvd for sure. and she has also had a liver biopsy in feb that said mvd and that there werent any other liver problems. so its mvd. we are in the liver shunt group and everyone there has been really helpful. at x-mas time not even the vet thought or madison hospital thought she would make it. today she is happy and making up for lost time

[blitz]

Originally Posted by Brooklynn

Ok! I am a breeder/exhibitor and I haven't done BAT's on my dogs because they were done before I brought them into my home and because of their age, if they had a single shunt it should have shown itself by now, MVD is different than a shunt. I know my dogs pedigrees and know that shunts are not prevalient in the lines I have. However, for my peace of mind I will be testing Radar and Cammie within the next few weeks. I will also be OFA'ing them this summer. I will also be testing puppies before leaving my home and spaying and neutering! I breed for the betterment of the breed and I breed actually for myself and not the buying public per se...if I have a pet quality puppy then I place them but I strive for show dogs for myself not pets.
I hope this helps the OP.
Donna Bird


Brooklynn's Yorkshire Terriers

It helps the Yorkshier Terrier breed.

[Mom 2 B]

Originally Posted by bjh

Congratulations on getting your first Yorkie. Just curious, how old was the pup when they did the BAT?

She was 2 days into her 13th week. She was in her 12th week when I decided to get her and she couldn't get an appointment at the vet that week. I had read several different items on when was best to test and had even asked on here. I would even consider testing her again if my vet felt it was necessary.

I have two Springers and one is an epileptic so it is extremely important to me that I have a healthy pup.

[Mom 2 B]

Originally Posted by Mom 2 B

I had been watching this thread in the beginning and have found it very interesting! As a person who just bought their first Yorkie (and don't have her until March 20th), it came down to this. I was seriously looking at two breeders. Neither did BAT. One said she would and that's who my puppy is coming from. My puppies BAT came back normal.

The second breeder did offer to BAT as well once they knew I had done my reseach and was not just talking nonsense. I would definitely consider this breeder for my next pup (I hear Yorkies are addictive).

I agree with those on here that think every puppy should be tested. I haven't educated myself enough on testing the adults to offer an opinion.

If you want breeders to test for BAT and they don't, DON'T buy their puppies!

Just my 2 cents.

I just wanted to add that I paid for the BAT test on my pup. It was worth it to me.

[bjh]

Originally Posted by Mom 2 B

She was 2 days into her 13th week. She was in her 12th week when I decided to get her and she couldn't get an appointment at the vet that week. I had read several different items on when was best to test and had even asked on here. I would even consider testing her again if my vet felt it was necessary.

I have two Springers and one is an epileptic so it is extremely important to me that I have a healthy pup.

It is good that you are doing your research. I hope all goes well with your new puppy. We will be looking forward to seeing pictures of her.

[Ladymom]

Originally Posted by Mom 2 B

She was 2 days into her 13th week. She was in her 12th week when I decided to get her and she couldn't get an appointment at the vet that week. I had read several different items on when was best to test and had even asked on here. I would even consider testing her again if my vet felt it was necessary.

I have two Springers and one is an epileptic so it is extremely important to me that I have a healthy pup.

This is from page 22 of the handout Dr. Center uses at her seminars:


2: The best approach to avoid "over diagnosis" is to test bile acids in young dogs of highly affected breeds (at 4 mths of age) while they are clinically healthy and before they are adopted into pet homes. Highly affected breeds include: Yorkshire Terrier, Cairn Terrier, Maltese, Tibetan Spaniels as well as many other "terrier" type breeds (Miniature Schnauzer, Lhasa Apso, Shih Tzu, Dachshund, Bichon Frise, Pekingese, Toy and Miniature Poodles, and Havanese and others). Proactive assessment of serum bile acids will limit the awkward circumstance imposed when an MVD dog, with minor health issues, is suddenly recognized to have abnormal bile acids by a pet owner's veterinarian. This circumstance can lead to unnecessary diagnostic confusion and unwarranted invasive tests such as liver biopsy and portovenography. How old dogs should be at he time of initial testing has not been established. Typically, abnormal bile acids DO NOT normalize as a dog ages ..... " (all emphasis added by Dr. Center)

[dudley1984]

There is one very famous dog whose name is showing up with alarming frequency on shunt pedigrees. Who is it?