Bile Acid Testing - Page 4 - YorkieTalk.com Forums

dudley1984 · 03-12-2008, 07:20 AM

Kudos to all you breeders who have unlimited time and money to be running to the vet to test for every possible problem...I put my money first into purchasing breeding stock from well known and respected exhibitors with some history behind them. Next I see to it they get all the reasonable and customary health care and screenings before they are actually bred. I pour a ton of money into pre and post natal care, keeping everybody healthy and safe. My puppies visit the vet at least three times before leaving home. I do not subject them to blood tests unless they look sick. My health guarantee is intended to cover the occasional liver shunt puppy that I'm finding out is just about impossible to avoid !!! This is all carefully explained to customers ahead of time. In the event of a problem they get thier money back. So far everybody is happy with the arrangement. Also, all my puppies go with limited AKC registration and spay/neuter contracts, to I don't have to worry about somebody carelessly breeding a shunt carrier.

blitz · 03-12-2008, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudley1984

Kudos to all you breeders who have unlimited time and money to be running to the vet to test for every possible problem...I put my money first into purchasing breeding stock from well known and respected exhibitors with some history behind them. Next I see to it they get all the reasonable and customary health care and screenings before they are actually bred. I pour a ton of money into pre and post natal care, keeping everybody healthy and safe. My puppies visit the vet at least three times before leaving home. I do not subject them to blood tests unless they look sick. My health guarantee is intended to cover the occasional liver shunt puppy that I'm finding out is just about impossible to avoid !!! This is all carefully explained to customers ahead of time. In the event of a problem they get thier money back. So far everybody is happy with the arrangement. Also, all my puppies go with limited AKC registration and spay/neuter contracts, to I don't have to worry about somebody carelessly breeding a shunt carrier.

This isn't some minor problem. You'll dock their tails but not subject them to a blood test?

If you produce an LS puppy, then you are the one who bred a shunt carrier aren't you?

dudley1984 · 03-12-2008, 07:39 AM

I rarely dock tails. It is a barbaric practice insisted upon only by American breeders, and I haven't quite figured out why... Under pressure I dock if I think I'll get a show prospect out of a litter, and I'll soon stop that too. ALL Yorkies are shunt carriers, some worse than others because of indiscriminate breeding.

bchgirl · 03-12-2008, 07:49 AM

Many times I read...someone is "breeding to better the breed"...and wouldn't you think...bettering the breed would mean testing for genetic issues would, indeed, be..."bettering the breed"? Let's face it...a yorkie within perfect standards isn't perfect if it has liver shunt.

dudley1984 · 03-12-2008, 07:59 AM

By all means if you don't study your pedigrees and breed in a selective manner, then you should be running the appropriate bloodwork. There is no lab test yet that will identify a carrier, however. It will only tell you if there's evidence of shunting in the dog being tested.

scoobiedooiscoo · 03-12-2008, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ellie May

I'm really surprised your vet would say this. Ultrasounds are only 60-80% accurate and don't show MVD. They can be a waste of money. BAT comes first. I wouldn't waste my money on an u/s if the BAT didn't indicate it was needed.

i would think a bat and orprotien c test. lacey had the protien c test and it came back showing she has mvd. its only like 75 bucks and well worth it to me.

blitz · 03-12-2008, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudley1984

ALL Yorkies are shunt carriers, some worse than others because of indiscriminate breeding.

On what do you base this information? How does indiscriminate breeding worsen the problem?

blitz · 03-12-2008, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scoobiedooiscoo

i would think a bat and orprotien c test. lacey had the protien c test and it came back showing she has mvd. its only like 75 bucks and well worth it to me.

How is she doing being an MVD dog? Does she have any special needs?

Tiramisu · 03-12-2008, 08:45 AM

Is a dog with LS always a carrier OR can they just be a passthrough?

dudley1984 · 03-12-2008, 09:01 AM

All Yorkies are carriers based on the polygenic nature of the liver shunt problem. You have to study your pedigrees to know which combination of bloodlines are least likely to produce shunt puppies. Science may one day give us a shortcut, but until then there is no substitute for knowing what is in your bloodlines. Indiscriminate breeding is what got us into this whole shunt mess. You randomly put two dogs together and count on blood tests to tell you if you have a health problem. Give me a break...

my2boyz · 03-12-2008, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudley1984

All Yorkies are carriers based on the polygenic nature of the liver shunt problem. You have to study your pedigrees to know which combination of bloodlines are least likely to produce shunt puppies. Science may one day give us a shortcut, but until then there is no substitute for knowing what is in your bloodlines. Indiscriminate breeding is what got us into this whole shunt mess. You randomly put two dogs together and count on blood tests to tell you if you have a health problem. Give me a break...

I agree that you have to know what's in your bloodline but your way can only be accurate if you trust the people giving you the health information on their bloodlines before you breed. I just don't think having tests done can ever be a bad thing. I don't want to wake up someday and have to feel guilty about the dogs I've bred and the puppies they've produced.

scoobiedooiscoo · 03-12-2008, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blitz

How is she doing being an MVD dog? Does she have any special needs?

now that we have all her meds and diet figured out she is doing better and doesnt have many seizures or wobbling anymore but we cant seem to get her weight back on her. its not cheap having a dog with mvd but i wouldnt give her up for the world. she is on lactulose,amoxi drops LD food and someherbal things, sometimes metronitazol. all her fruits and veggies are organic and she has reverce osmosis water.

blitz · 03-12-2008, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudley1984

By all means if you don't study your pedigrees and breed in a selective manner, then you should be running the appropriate bloodwork. There is no lab test yet that will identify a carrier, however. It will only tell you if there's evidence of shunting in the dog being tested.

Thank you, but if you don't test your dogs, how do you know they don't have MVD?

blitz · 03-12-2008, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scoobiedooiscoo

now that we have all her meds and diet figured out she is doing better and doesnt have many seizures or wobbling anymore but we cant seem to get her weight back on her. its not cheap having a dog with mvd but i wouldnt give her up for the world. she is on lactulose,amoxi drops LD food and someherbal things, sometimes metronitazol. all her fruits and veggies are organic and she has reverce osmosis water.

You know, from my interpretation of some of Sharon's work, she believes that symptomatic MVD dogs are extremely rare. It seems to me that she feels that symptomatic MVD dogs are most likely misdiagnosed shunts (not that she couldn't have MVD, as well. Have you spoken to her?

blitz · 03-12-2008, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dudley1984

You randomly put two dogs together and count on blood tests to tell you if you have a health problem. Give me a break...

How about testing them before they are put together. I think that makes more sense.

03-12-2008, 07:20 AM	#46
dudley1984 BANNED! Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: salem nh Posts: 81	cost vs benefit again... Kudos to all you breeders who have unlimited time and money to be running to the vet to test for every possible problem...I put my money first into purchasing breeding stock from well known and respected exhibitors with some history behind them. Next I see to it they get all the reasonable and customary health care and screenings before they are actually bred. I pour a ton of money into pre and post natal care, keeping everybody healthy and safe. My puppies visit the vet at least three times before leaving home. I do not subject them to blood tests unless they look sick. My health guarantee is intended to cover the occasional liver shunt puppy that I'm finding out is just about impossible to avoid !!! This is all carefully explained to customers ahead of time. In the event of a problem they get thier money back. So far everybody is happy with the arrangement. Also, all my puppies go with limited AKC registration and spay/neuter contracts, to I don't have to worry about somebody carelessly breeding a shunt carrier.

03-12-2008, 07:39 AM	#48
dudley1984 BANNED! Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: salem nh Posts: 81	actually, no I rarely dock tails. It is a barbaric practice insisted upon only by American breeders, and I haven't quite figured out why... Under pressure I dock if I think I'll get a show prospect out of a litter, and I'll soon stop that too. ALL Yorkies are shunt carriers, some worse than others because of indiscriminate breeding.

03-12-2008, 07:49 AM	#49
bchgirl Donating YT 10K Club Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: at da beach Posts: 15,444 Blog Entries: 2	Many times I read...someone is "breeding to better the breed"...and wouldn't you think...bettering the breed would mean testing for genetic issues would, indeed, be..."bettering the breed"? Let's face it...a yorkie within perfect standards isn't perfect if it has liver shunt. __________________ Deb, Reese, Reggie, Frazier, Libby, Sidney, & Bodie Trace & Ramsey who watch over us www.biewersbythebay.com

03-12-2008, 07:59 AM	#50
dudley1984 BANNED! Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: salem nh Posts: 81	cost vs benefit By all means if you don't study your pedigrees and breed in a selective manner, then you should be running the appropriate bloodwork. There is no lab test yet that will identify a carrier, however. It will only tell you if there's evidence of shunting in the dog being tested.

03-12-2008, 08:45 AM	#54
Tiramisu YT Addict Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 462	Is a dog with LS always a carrier OR can they just be a passthrough? __________________ Unto Others As You Would

03-12-2008, 09:01 AM	#55
dudley1984 BANNED! Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: salem nh Posts: 81	It's very complicated... All Yorkies are carriers based on the polygenic nature of the liver shunt problem. You have to study your pedigrees to know which combination of bloodlines are least likely to produce shunt puppies. Science may one day give us a shortcut, but until then there is no substitute for knowing what is in your bloodlines. Indiscriminate breeding is what got us into this whole shunt mess. You randomly put two dogs together and count on blood tests to tell you if you have a health problem. Give me a break...