Bile Acid Testing

[bchgirl]

Originally Posted by katelin

I met with my vet today. Ruby had a sonogram and has at least 4 viable puppies, due around the middle of next month. The vet and I had a very long conversation about BAT, LS, these puppies, etc.

First, let me tell you how I am going to deal with my immediate problem. This decision was based on what I have read here, what I have read elsewhere, my vet's recommendations, a lot of tears and grief, and not a small amount of gin. We have already refunded for the LS puppy. The owners of the siblings have been told about the connection to an LS puppy. The sire is no longer being used for stud. Ruby will be spayed after this litter is born.

The puppies...that is a little more difficult. I will have each of them BAT tested prior to placement. Placement with be with a written disclosure and on limited registration only. If any of the puppies tests high for BA, I will hold that puppy back to see what happens. I can't euthanize a puppy if I'm not positive of the fact that it really has LS. This "wait and see" position will allow me to come to a decision that I can live with and what is in the best interests of the puppy.

Let me just add this: A word that isn't being used in this discussion is "inheritable." Everything is "genetic" (unless it is environmental) to some extent. But the ability to pass on a condition makes it inheritable, not just genetic. We are all afraid that LS is inheritable, linked in some way to a recessive gene. But none of the research has been able to prove or disprove this. I'm sure this is one of the main goals of the research.

Second, my vet did not recommend a BAT test on Ruby or the sire. That test would only show whether they themselves had LS or a liver problem. It would do nothing to show whether they could or have passed it on to a puppy. Besides neither is being used for breeding any more, they are asymptomatic, so it would serve no purpose.

Sorry for such a long post -- but I had a lot to say and it has been weighing quite heavily on me since we got this diagnosis. I feel somewhat better with a plan of action. If you have any other suggestions, let me know.

I don't have any other suggestions...other than pray for your upcoming litter. I think you are handling the matter wonderfully. I hope your new pups are completely healthy....and happy.

Good luck!

[Tx2Stepn]

Originally Posted by Woogie Man

The Scottish Terrier Club of America in 2001 reported a carrier frequency rate for liver shunt at 4.7% based on its own health survey and termed the condition rare. A study on Irish Wolfhounds in the Netherlands identified several important carrier lines and was able to substantially reduce the incidence of liver shunt. Much of the other data I've read points to prolific studs and bitches that are carriers being major contributors to the rise in cases. My opinion at this point is that the problem lies mostly in show dog lines and is a lesser problem in the breed at large. These lines must be identified in the Yorkshire Terrier in order to get a handle on the problem. To place the blame on casual breeders is really 'passing the buck' as they are unlikely to have dogs from show lines though surely there are carriers among some of the dogs they breed, but these dogs would not be so prolific as their more esteemed counterparts. In the meantime, testing all breeding dogs and dogs showing clinical signs seems to be the reasonable way to proceed.

This statement is completely unfounded! We have a byb here that is producing a lot of Liver Shunt, so much so that the vets are finally being vocal to prospective buyers to tell them to stay away from her (even tho they could be sued). She continues to breed the dogs and she has never shown a dog and does not have show dog lines. She raises Yorkies, Maltese, and a lot of other breeds. The bottom line is all that she cares about. I also received a call from a prospective buyer that was interested in a puppy. She bought her first puppy for $500.00 from a lady that just bred her 2 pets and had to spend an additional $5,000.00 in Dallas for surgery for Liver Shunt. I have heard more stories than you can imagine about LS, seizures, and other health problems from ppl that bought their Yorkies from casual breeders in this area and I have yet to run across 1 story from someone that bought their dogs from a show breeder in this area. In the end, the problem could hit anyone and as breeders we have to be willing and able to stand behind our dogs that we place.

[love_me_cody]

I think she means, everyone keeps referring to how bybers are the cause but some show lines (?) are the cause also, but of course no show breeder that bred a liver stunt will come out and tell other show breeds about having a problem with LS because it isn't their business. they tell the buyers of the puppies and previous puppies but more than likely they don't come out to other breeders and say they we breeder dogs that carry LS in their genes. And I'm sure that everyone knows that some show breeders may have had a dog that carry LS in their genes but everyone keeps referring to BYBers when they should be saying everyone that bred a dog with LS (and if you look through this thread you will see people referring to bybers being the cause)