Parti Color? YTCA?

[Elle]

Originally Posted by puppylove11

Liked I stated you would have to ask them! I have been in the ring and watched yorkies with bad knees being shown by ytca members. I owned two akc championed sired yorkies, bred them to one another and received a liver shunt puppy. Needless to say they both were altered. The puppy was treated and the external shunt was fixed and the puppy has lived a healthy normal life with his new family.

To be honest I have stated over and over again the ytca should police their own, before they worry about the non ytca members. Because I know for a fact they are not all ethical!

I'm very sorry to hear about your liver shunt puppy. That is worst thing, for any human to watch a yorkie suffer. I don't think any person can stand this. No matter how far apart we may be, seeing any animal suffer is painful to each of us. Liver shunt is horrible. I'm sorry you've suffered watching your yorkie suffer.

YTCA is not a policing organization. This is not the mission. Maybe this is some of the confusion for people.

[Elle]

Originally Posted by Elle

So who had the sire and who had the bitch? If it takes a recessive gene, how do you know this to be a fact? Are you saying that the owners/breeders of these dogs confirmed this? How do you confirm the gene? How do you determine if you will breed it?

Let me ask this again because my question was not answered whatsoever! I don't want to know HOW YOU GET A WHITE DOG.

I'm asking about that bitch that you said is from the Durrer line and the sire specifically. Who said cull them? Who signed off on the registration? I'm trying to figure out how in all of the hundreds of thousands of liters born, I've only heard of this happening twice. Both times were here on yorkietalk.

[yorkielady06]

Originally Posted by darbygale

I see where Raymond's Mom asked if the parti people were doing any testing of their dogs and pups but never saw an answer. Anyone doing bile acid tests, x-rays for LeggsPerthe, luxating patellas, complete blood and chemistry profiles etc?

I am in the process of health testing all my breeding stock. One traditional has already been eliminated and was petted out. Of my 2 partis the female has perfect BAT levels, chem and liver panels all within normal limits and prelim xrays were great but she is not yet 2 so OFA not done yet. I am also waiting for a CERF clinic in my area as the last one that was scheduled for August was cancelled. The other females blood work is great but have not done prelim xrays as she is just 6 months old and so have a ways to wait for her. I just acquired a 3 month old girl that has not had any testing yet due to age....Of my 3 standards 2 are 4 months old and so of course nothing yet and the other is 9 months and due at 1 year for BAT and other bloodwork. As stated I am working on CERF for all but the clinics are every 3-6 months up here and not easy to get to sometimes or they get cancelled.
I did have Penn hip done on my oldest parti girl and her scores were 0.10 and 96% if you know these scores you know they are awesome. This testing is quite expensive but can be done as early as 4 months.
This testing along with heartworm, lyme, etc testing. Also preventative treatments, flea prevention, vaccinations and all vet care for 6-8 dogs runs me well over 10 K a year not counting quality dog food. Now I just began in the show arena with mine also so those costs are not added.
SO do I do testing..you bet your *** I do. I always have. How about the YTCA members on here and YOU?

[yorkielady06]

I will add that in my last litter I did not BAT the pups. My vet does not recommend that at 12 weeks. I did however have them spayed and neutered prior to leaving, every one as they were all pet quality and sold as such. I have read on here lots of lay people recommending BAT on pups prior to placement which as stated has not been recommended by my vet so I will defer that at this point, but if and when my vet recommends it, it will be done. All my pups also leave with a 3 month supply of frontline and heartguard, have been vet checked, stool sample checked, and pre spoiled.
It does not stop with just testing the parents it continue into everything that is done as a breeder.

[Breezeaway]

Originally Posted by Elle

Let me ask this again because my question was not answered whatsoever! I don't want to know HOW YOU GET A WHITE DOG.

I'm asking about that bitch that you said is from the Durrer line and the sire specifically. Who said cull them? Who signed off on the registration? I'm trying to figure out how in all of the hundreds of thousands of liters born, I've only heard of this happening twice. Both times were here on yorkietalk.

As far as I was told She had them DNA'd to get the puppies registered. I think she told me Ann told her to get rid of them.
The pedgree was posted awhile back so I am not sure what your asking about the sire and dam

[Brooklynn]

. How about the YTCA members on here and YOU?[/QUOTE]

I health test, BAT test, chem panel, xray and check for LP and I'm a YTCA member And as I stated before, my pups will be BAT tested at 16 weeks and then again at 6 months before placed into a pet home as per Dr. Center's protocol! But then again, I don't breed much so doing all those tests aren't a problem for me at all and I'm happy to do it because Health is the #1 priority for me. And once again, I don't breed for pets only but to try and produce my next show dog but knowing not every litter I produce will produce that show dog but that is my goal for the future. In fact I haven't had a litter in 3 years and probably won't have one for another couple of years.

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by puppylove11

Liked I stated you would have to ask them! I have been in the ring and watched yorkies with bad knees being shown by ytca members. I owned two akc championed sired yorkies, bred them to one another and received a liver shunt puppy. Needless to say they both were altered. The puppy was treated and the external shunt was fixed and the puppy has lived a healthy normal life with his new family.

To be honest I have stated over and over again the ytca should police their own, before they worry about the non ytca members. Because I know for a fact they are not all ethical!

I am so sorry you had to go through this. Liver shunt is devasting and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. Knowing about what it does and knowing the experiences of it...and as I've stated over and over it's what one does within their breeding program when it happens that deems who is ethical and who is not. Just don't put all YTCA members in a catagory as unethical. One can only police their own breeding program.

Donna

[GreenwoodBiewer]

Originally Posted by yorkiekist

So are you mixing partis with biewers? Wasnt clear by your post.

I have breed traditional colored AKC yorkies to my Biewers in the past.. those are the carriers I spoke of in my post.. I will be breeding two of my Biewer females (German Parti colored yorkies) to my AKC Parti male this week (or next) as I have 4 in season right now. They will be registered as Biewer Pups, as all will be Parti colored. ( If any are held back for breeding) This is how new lines have always been added to the Biewer lines in Germany. There are many who believe the lines are diverse enough already, I am just not one that feels that way.

I also have a Carrier (Biewer mom, AKC dad) who will be bred with a Biewer male sometime this week.. her litter will have both traditionally colored and Parti colored pups.. If I hold any back, they will be registered depending on their color.. Biewer or Yorkie, just as has been done in the past in Germany.

I am doing this to benifit MY breeding program and a few of my friends.. any dogs that are not used for that purpose, will be sold as pets, at pet prices, spay or neutered and not registered. Of course, all the puppies will be tested at the same level as all the rest, loved the same and spoiled. No, this is not a money making proposition, but the health and well being of my puppies is my main concern.

Diana

[Tnyorkiemom]

Originally Posted by GreenwoodBiewer

I have breed traditional colored AKC yorkies to my Biewers in the past.. those are the carriers I spoke of in my post.. I will be breeding two of my Biewer females (German Parti colored yorkies) to my AKC Parti male this week (or next) as I have 4 in season right now. They will be registered as Biewer Pups, as all will be Parti colored. ( If any are held back for breeding) This is how new lines have always been added to the Biewer lines in Germany. There are many who believe the lines are diverse enough already, I am just not one that feels that way.

I also have a Carrier (Biewer mom, AKC dad) who will be bred with a Biewer male sometime this week.. her litter will have both traditionally colored and Parti colored pups.. If I hold any back, they will be registered depending on their color.. Biewer or Yorkie, just as has been done in the past in Germany.

I am doing this to benifit MY breeding program and a few of my friends.. any dogs that are not used for that purpose, will be sold as pets, at pet prices, spay or neutered and not registered. Of course, all the puppies will be tested at the same level as all the rest, loved the same and spoiled. No, this is not a money making proposition, but the health and well being of my puppies is my main concern.

Diana

Thank you Diana for explaining to everyone how that is done ............lots dont understand how you do that...........and in my opinion this is the ethical way to do it..........cause you are petting out all that you dont want for your own program.

[jencar98]

Originally Posted by Breezeaway

Some of you might like to watch PBS on dogs.
Heres an excerpt from what happened to foxes after taming.
Very interesting.
YouTube - Russian "Tame Foxes"

Thank you so much for posting this!

What a coincidence....couldn't sleep last night, up at 3 AM...low and behold, this show was on. It's very fascinating and made me think a lot about dog breeding and just exactly what all within a dog is genetically altered by breeding for certain traits.

I've said before of my 3 yorkies, the one with the most terrier personality is Razz, my parti boy. My show breeder boy is timid, and Ruby my puppymill girl isn't quite as timid as Reno but no where near the terrier instinct that Razz has. Makes me wonder if by breeding to achieve that perfect blue/tan coat our yorkies may be losing that terrier instinct, which is one of the traits early breeders bred specifically for, because yorkie were originally ratters.

[Elle]

Originally Posted by Rhetts_mama

I don't remember anyone that you refer to, but it doesn't matter. The implication by the poster that I was replying to was that parti's are showing up because unscrupulous Parti breeders are sneaking their dogs in to new, traditional, lines. And what I'm saying is that the genes are there in those lines because traditional colored breeders chose to hide the fact, with the blessing of the YTCA and AKC, that they had the parti gene in their lines.

The fact is, the Yorkshire Terrier, as we know it today was bred from several different breeds of dogs, some of which had different coat colors. One of those may or may not have been the Maltese:

British dogs, their points, selection, and show preparation, by William D. Drury, pg 582 published 1903, L. Upcott Gill, London, and Charles Scribner's Sons, New York (no ISBN) Quote: "I think the Yorkshire gets the softness and length of coat due to Maltese blood".


That being the case, it is only logical that some of those early ancestors continued to carry the gene for the white coloring. That would be carried on through their progeny, but only expressed when bred with another dog who also carried the gene.

Nope, this is not what the implication was about. Nor is this what my posts were referring to.

I strongly disagree with the relevance that you are making and don't see any logic in this white dog to our standard whatsoever. Many feel it is a mixed breed of dog that is being bred with our blue and tan dogs. I support this logic.

[GreenwoodBiewer]

Originally Posted by Elle

Nope, this is not what the implication was about. Nor is this what my posts were referring to.

I strongly disagree with the relevance that you are making and don't see any logic in this white dog to our standard whatsoever. Many feel it is a mixed breed of dog that is being bred with our blue and tan dogs. I support this logic.

And many of us stongly disagree with you and know we are not breeding mixed breed dogs.

We can go around and around, none of us are changing our positions on this and really, no new information is being presented either way. Your views will not change and neither will mine so I guess we just go about our own business and see how it turns out.

Diana

[puppylove11]

I guess this is what upsets me more, is the fact there are so many health issues in our breed! But it seems like it is more important to worry about the color of the healthy specimen, instead of worrying about all the health issues in our breed. I know there are parti breeders who do everything possible in producing excellent healthy litters and better what they have.

I use to be pro ytca all the way, but you can only be burnt and hurt so many times. I feel if you are the parent club, you should set an example and make sure all your members breed smart with health being the number 1 concern, not conformation. As they say follow by example.

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by puppylove11

I guess this is what upsets me more, is the fact there are so many health issues in our breed! But it seems like it is more important to worry about the color of the healthy specimen, instead of worrying about all the health issues in our breed. I know there are parti breeders who do everything possible in producing excellent healthy litters and better what they have.
I use to be pro ytca all the way, but you can only be burnt and hurt so many times. I feel if you are the parent club, you should set an example and make sure all your members breed smart with health being the number 1 concern, not conformation. As they say follow by example.

And i know YTCA members that do the same thing! We can't police all YTCA members, hobby breeders, Parti Breeders ect. You've posted you've bought from a couple of YTCA members so now you know not to purchase from them and do more research for a good breeder. I know great breeders that show that are NOT members of the YTCA but they do show and I know some GREAT YTCA members.
I am a YTCA member and I'm trying to lead by example. Take what I say as to be the truth or ignore it, it's your choice. I still stand behind the YTCA and what it represents, even though some choice not too...they are the ones that have to live with the choices they make.

Donna

[Rhetts_mama]

Originally Posted by Elle

Nope, this is not what the implication was about. Nor is this what my posts were referring to.

I strongly disagree with the relevance that you are making and don't see any logic in this white dog to our standard whatsoever. Many feel it is a mixed breed of dog that is being bred with our blue and tan dogs. I support this logic.

And I'm asking for proof that they are breeding a mixed breed dog with your blue and tans. So far all you've provided is innuendo.

That you fail to see that the white gene has been there since the beginning of the standard is your problem and not mine. It all comes down to genetics and what is expressed under what circumstances.

There are references to white yorkies well in to the 1800's. The fact that most of these dogs were culled from breeding programs doesn't negate the fact that the genes that created them were already there and passed on to other lines via their "correctly colored" siblings.