Parti Color? YTCA?

[peanut]

Originally Posted by peachbongi

My point exactly, Tina. Genetics is included in the gene. Let's take the Cocker, there are so many colors and these dogs have numerous health issues not to mention they are impossible to potty train.

Why change something with risk that it may add more health problems?

Do those cute little squirrels have as long of a life span as the original?

Until someone can answer these questions we are taking a risk changing the breed. It's not just about color but about long term effects.

Cockers are not hard to potty train, we raised and showed Cockers for 5 years, I had over 6 at one time, and everyone was potty train, smart, and sweet as can be never would hurt anything, and yes they were around my children when they were toddlers.

[darbygale]

Originally Posted by puppylove11

On the other hand I would love to see all the ytca members health testing records for their dogs. I know for a fact there are some ytca members who do no health testing!

I know that there are quite a few that do testing. I am one of them and if you were lucky enough to have one of my dogs, you would get to see all of the records.

Now, do the parti/biewer breeders do testing and if so for what?

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by darbygale

I know that there are quite a few that do testing. I am one of them and if you were lucky enough to have one of my dogs, you would get to see all of the records.

Now, do the parti/biewer breeders do testing and if so for what?

I know many that health test also and I health test myself but I don't breed much so therefore not many will own many of my dogs. I just don't trust many people in the first place. And when I do breed my dogs the pups will be spayed and neutered before leaving my home and they will also be BAT tested and have a complete blood panel done before leaving to their new home as well. And that means they won't leave until they are 6 months old. But to be honest I don't think I'd place a pet of mine to anyone on YT unless I know ya personally and that means met in person and have made a home visit.
Donna

[darbygale]

Originally Posted by Brooklynn

But to be honest I don't think I'd place a pet of mine to anyone on YT unless I know ya personally and that means met in person and have made a home visit.
Donna

I agree with you Donna. I keep what I want for show and sell the rest as pets.

[Beamers Mom]

Originally Posted by Woogie Man

Here's another very good early book.

The Terriers. A History And Description Of The Modern Dogs Of Great Britain And Ireland | by Rawdon B. Lee

What's good about this book is that it's available to read online in its entirety. It doesn't really address this issue but is a good read.

It's open to speculation just who used what dogs in their program at that time. I don't think there's was only one formula used by everyone, but the breed standard brought about an identifiable dog from it all.

I found I am able to download the book down to my E-reader. When I was looking through books to download I came across this book published in 1897:

The Animal Kingdom:based upon the writings of the eminent naturalists, Audubon, Wallace, Brehm, Wood and others.
Author is Hugh Craig

"The Yorkshire Terrier is a cross between a mongrel Skye and a Black-and-Tan Terrier. The coat is very long and silky, and abundant over the whole body, head, legs, and tail; its color is a silvery blue, the ears and legs are of a dark tan shade, and the long beard is of a golden tan, the top of the head almost fawn-colored. This dog is a modern invention and is only fit for a toy"

And that was his only reference to the Yorkshire Terrier. Wonder which naturalist writings he got that info from!

[gardenyorkies]

Originally Posted by Rhetts_mama

The white gene is recessive. In order for it to be expressed it has to be present in both the dam and the sire.

Using Punnett squares, you will see the following:

Two traditional colored yorkies without the parti gene will produce only traditional colored yorkies (4:4).

A traditional colored yorkie bred to a traditional colored parti carrier will have all traditional colored pups, but have a 50% chance of passing the gene on to each off spring (2:4 are traditional without the gene, 2:4 will carry it.)

A traditional colored yorkie without the parti gene bred to a full parti will produce tradtional colored pups that all carry the parti gene (4:4).

Two traditional colored pups with parti genes will have a 1:4 chance of producing a pup without the gene, 2:4 of producing a traditional colored pup with the gene and a 1:4 chance of producing a parti colored yorkie.

Breeding two full parti's will result in only parti's (4:4)

And the question exists on why the parti's can hurt the existence of the Yorkshire Terrier as we know it today!...Genetics is the answer!

[Raymond's Mom]

Originally Posted by puppylove11

On the other hand I would love to see all the ytca members health testing records for their dogs. I know for a fact there are some ytca members who do no health testing!

You can show and champion a yorkie that has LP or liver shunts in the line, but not a healthy one with white markings.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I was responding to the above statement. How in the world would the parti owner know that his or her dog comes from lines clear of disease. The dog with white markings has the same problems in the lines they come from as the blue and tan yorkies. You have no idea, without testing, how healthy and/or sound your parti yorkie is. As you so proudly point out, they come out of normal yorkies so you get the good with the bad. So why don't the parti color breeders step up and test your dogs? You'd be one up on those who don't test.

[puppylove11]

Originally Posted by darbygale

I know that there are quite a few that do testing. I am one of them and if you were lucky enough to have one of my dogs, you would get to see all of the records.

Now, do the parti/biewer breeders do testing and if so for what?

I do not breed partis. So you would have to ask them. My yorkies are tested and so are their offsprings. I can only state what I know for a fact and the three yorkie I bought from ytca members were not health tested and I seen no health records on their partents either. I did all the health testing on them, never showed or bred them and altered all three of them.

[puppylove11]

Originally Posted by Raymond's Mom

You can show and champion a yorkie that has LP or liver shunts in the line, but not a healthy one with white markings.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I was responding to the above statement. How in the world would the parti owner know that his or her dog comes from lines clear of disease. The dog with white markings has the same problems in the lines they come from as the blue and tan yorkies. You have no idea, without testing, how healthy and/or sound your parti yorkie is. As you so proudly point out, they come out of normal yorkies so you get the good with the bad. So why don't the parti color breeders step up and test your dogs? You'd be one up on those who don't test.

Liked I stated you would have to ask them! I have been in the ring and watched yorkies with bad knees being shown by ytca members. I owned two akc championed sired yorkies, bred them to one another and received a liver shunt puppy. Needless to say they both were altered. The puppy was treated and the external shunt was fixed and the puppy has lived a healthy normal life with his new family.

To be honest I have stated over and over again the ytca should police their own, before they worry about the non ytca members. Because I know for a fact they are not all ethical!

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by darbygale

Yes, as a matter of fact I do.

Really

that makes everything you say look really believable.

[Raymond's Mom]

Originally Posted by puppylove11

Liked I stated you would have to ask them! I have been in the ring and watched yorkies with bad knees being shown by ytca members. I owned two akc championed sired yorkies, bred them to one another and received a liver shunt puppy. Needless to say they both were altered. The puppy was treated and the external shunt was fixed and the puppy has lived a healthy normal life with his new family.

To be honest I have stated over and over again the ytca should police their own, before they worry about the non ytca members. Because I know for a fact they are not all ethical!

What does testing have to do with YTCA? CHIC is the Canine Health Information Center. OFA is the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals. Neither are in any way affiliated with YTCA. And of all the yorkie litters born each year YTCA breeders are responsible for a very small percentage. It would be great if every YTCA member had a CHIC number for each dog they bred. But to sit back and say non YTCA members don't have to test is another reason this breed is in such trouble.

[kpstoybox]

Originally Posted by gardenyorkies

And the question exists on why the parti's can hurt the existence of the Yorkshire Terrier as we know it today!...Genetics is the answer!

Genetics? Please do elaborate on this a little more.

[puppylove11]

Originally Posted by Raymond's Mom

What does testing have to do with YTCA? CHIC is the Canine Health Information Center. OFA is the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals. Neither are in any way affiliated with YTCA. And of all the yorkie litters born each year YTCA breeders are responsible for a very small percentage. It would be great if every YTCA member had a CHIC number for each dog they bred. But to sit back and say non YTCA members don't have to test is another reason this breed is in such trouble.

I do health test my dogs and their offsprings. I am no member of the ytca nor would I ever want to be. I am sick to death of their double standards! They whine about all the byb breeders and the junk they produce, well I have seen with my own eyes the junk some ytca members have produced. I NEVER STATED NON YTCA MEMBERS DO NOT HAVE TO TEST THEIR DOGS! I believe all breeders should have to test their dogs and all the offsprings they produce! But if all the ytca members are not health testing their dogs, you sure cannot expect all the non members to health test their dogs! As I stated Double Standards!

[GreenwoodBiewer]

Wow.. I haven't been on all day.. I thought you all were done rehashing the same things over and over..guess not!

I skimmed some of the latests post and someone mentioned that a BIEWER breeder said that if traditional colored puppies were born in a litter, they would be registered as Yorkies and the Parti colored Biewers would be registered as Biewers.. Well, I have said that as that is what is done. You are registering a color of a dog.. just like Black/tan or Blue/Gold.. in Germany, the country of origin, that is how they register the Biewers and the splitters (carriers).. they are both yorkies, just different colors! It is a color designation.

To those of you who think we are all busy, sneaking our parti lines into "your" traditionally colored lines, just want you to know that personally, I ALWAYS neuter my males before they leave my home and sell all the females on a strict spay contract and they are ONLY registered if I keep them within my own program or they are placed with a trusted friend. I have only sold 3 puppies with breeding rights, one was a carrier.. in his contract it is VERY clear who he can be bred to and that all the puppies are to be sold as PET ONLY unless they go back into our breeding program. I am VERY careful that my Biewer (Parti) lines don't get into the general public, I keep my lines, Biewer and carrier very very close.

Also, I'm not sure where the idea that we are doing this just to SELL puppies comes from or that we are making buckets of money selling these "carriers".. I sell my carriers for the exact same price as my friends sell their yorkies... however, mine are already neutered so I make even LESS than all my friends who sell their traditionally colored yorkies intact. I either Bile test or do a complete liver panel on all of my puppies before they leave my home.. if they are not bile acid tested before they leave, I offer to pay for the test and recommend it be done around 6 months old.. I do NOT xray hips and knees.. not sure at 11 or 12 weeks old if that has value, but I'll check with my vet for his recommendations on that.. all the puppies are checked over by my vet and also by the new owners vet per my contract. All of my breeders knees are certified at 1 year old prior to breeding and all of my adults are bile acid tested by 1 year old. I am a VERY typical Biewer breeder, most of us do these types of things before we sell our puppies.. I know many breeders and I don't know ONE that is pumping out enough puppies to rake in all this money some of you think is out there.. just not sure where you get that idea as it certainly isn't based in any fact.

I have very specific goals in mind for my dogs.. I do show them in any venue I can.. I will be showing more carriers as yorkies, because that is what they are. The registry I use has a seperate code for the carriers so there is a way to track our dogs. I don't especially care if the YTCA dislikes our Parti yorkies at the present time .. we know what we have, we know what we have to do and we will do it. We will show our dogs to get them out amongst the public and the judges. I have had very favorable discussions with judges regarding my carriers and what we are trying to accomplish.. There are many MANY traditional yorkie breeders who are interested in these tri colored dogs, and that number will only grow... I know many personally who are members of YTCA who have asked about purchasing them (breeders and handlers) .. I will not sell to them as they are breeders and I don't sell breeding dogs to people I don't personally know.. but I refer them on to others. I believe eventually the day will come where attitudes will change, it's happening now..

-Diana

[yorkiekist]

Originally Posted by GreenwoodBiewer

Wow.. I haven't been on all day.. I thought you all were done rehashing the same things over and over..guess not!

I skimmed some of the latests post and someone mentioned that a BIEWER breeder said that if traditional colored puppies were born in a litter, they would be registered as Yorkies and the Parti colored Biewers would be registered as Biewers.. Well, I have said that as that is what is done. You are registering a color of a dog.. just like Black/tan or Blue/Gold.. in Germany, the country of origin, that is how they register the Biewers and the splitters (carriers).. they are both yorkies, just different colors! It is a color designation.

To those of you who think we are all busy, sneaking our parti lines into "your" traditionally colored lines, just want you to know that personally, I ALWAYS neuter my males before they leave my home and sell all the females on a strict spay contract and they are ONLY registered if I keep them within my own program or they are placed with a trusted friend. I have only sold 3 puppies with breeding rights, one was a carrier.. in his contract it is VERY clear who he can be bred to and that all the puppies are to be sold as PET ONLY unless they go back into our breeding program. I am VERY careful that my Biewer (Parti) lines don't get into the general public, I keep my lines, Biewer and carrier very very close.

Also, I'm not sure where the idea that we are doing this just to SELL puppies comes from or that we are making buckets of money selling these "carriers".. I sell my carriers for the exact same price as my friends sell their yorkies... however, mine are already neutered so I make even LESS than all my friends who sell their traditionally colored yorkies intact. I either Bile test or do a complete liver panel on all of my puppies before they leave my home.. if they are not bile acid tested before they leave, I offer to pay for the test and recommend it be done around 6 months old.. I do NOT xray hips and knees.. not sure at 11 or 12 weeks old if that has value, but I'll check with my vet for his recommendations on that.. all the puppies are checked over by my vet and also by the new owners vet per my contract. All of my breeders knees are certified at 1 year old prior to breeding and all of my adults are bile acid tested by 1 year old. I am a VERY typical Biewer breeder, most of us do these types of things before we sell our puppies.. I know many breeders and I don't know ONE that is pumping out enough puppies to rake in all this money some of you think is out there.. just not sure where you get that idea as it certainly isn't based in any fact.

I have very specific goals in mind for my dogs.. I do show them in any venue I can.. I will be showing more carriers as yorkies, because that is what they are. The registry I use has a seperate code for the carriers so there is a way to track our dogs. I don't especially care if the YTCA dislikes our Parti yorkies at the present time .. we know what we have, we know what we have to do and we will do it. We will show our dogs to get them out amongst the public and the judges. I have had very favorable discussions with judges regarding my carriers and what we are trying to accomplish.. There are many MANY traditional yorkie breeders who are interested in these tri colored dogs, and that number will only grow... I know many personally who are members of YTCA who have asked about purchasing them (breeders and handlers) .. I will not sell to them as they are breeders and I don't sell breeding dogs to people I don't personally know.. but I refer them on to others. I believe eventually the day will come where attitudes will change, it's happening now..

-Diana

So are you mixing partis with biewers? Wasnt clear by your post.