Parti Color? YTCA?

[lisaly]

Originally Posted by Elle

There is only one standard. We only have one, no variations.

Before I came to Yorkie Talk last summer, I had never heard of Biewers or Partis. When I spoke of variation within the breed, I spoke of what we call the standard Yorkie. I truly believe the standard is beautiful, but before I came to Yorkie Talk, I personally didn't see that many dogs that looked like the standard when I saw Yorkies outside of the show ring. I am a huge dog lover, and I really love almost all breeds of dogs. I think all Yorkies are beautiful, but probably because of the popularity of the breed, there is such variation in size, coat (and I'm not referring to parti-color) ear set and size, and other things relating to looks. That's what I was referring to when I was talking about variation. That doesn't make these dogs lesser in my eyes, but I said earlier that I have a certain look that I prefer when I see a Yorkie. My three girls' father had a short muzzle but he and his parents and grandparents had attained championship. I love that look, and I am seeing more dogs in the show ring that are having shorter muzzles. I also said earlier that, even though I love the silk coats and the shorter muzzle, when I do get another baby, I am going to be getting one from a breeder who I trust that breeds for health and temperament as the first priority instead of it being the looks that I love. I envision a look that I prefer for a Yorkie, but I know I will love a baby no matter what he/she looks like or how big he/she grows. I prefer my baby to be within the standard size, but I would love him/her no less if he/she grew larger than the standard.

I understand how you feel about protecting the standard and breeding to the standard. I'm not trying to change your mind about that, and I certainly don't have the need to do that. There are some people here who love the tricolored Yorkie that are not trying to change the standard I don't think. As I said earlier, I don't think they want to show the Partis or Biewers alongside the standard Yorkie. I really am very conflicted about all of this because I, too, don't want to see the standard change. I guess I don't think they are trying to do that. I don't think breeding Partis or Biewers is the same thing as breeding designer dogs because these dogs are all Yorkies. I actually love some of the designer breeds, but I am against breeding for them because they are not about breeding for the betterment of the breed. That's what I'd like to see from all breeders.

As far as what you said about these people not being honorable, I take great exception to that. I think you need to look at each individual before you can make a blanket statement like that.

All of this is so new to me, and I know I am going to have to do a lot of thought and research before I fully understand all of this and any ramifications. I do know that whatever conclusion I come to in my own mind, it's not really going to matter. That will be my opinion, and if the breeders who love a tri-colored Yorkie and are doing it to bring about sound, healthy dogs and looking to improve upon their breeding, I certainly won't condemn them or call them dishonorable. I'm not a breeder and have no intentions of breeding my babies. I know I will be getting a puppy as soon as I can, and I hope it will be as close to the traditional breed standard (color too) as possible. I also know that my husband and I want to raise two babies together. If I find a breeder whom I trust and respect and they have a tricolor Yorkie, we are considering that too because we also think they are beautiful..

[peachbongi]

Originally Posted by jencar98

I disagree with because we don't know how it will change the yorkie, the parts shouldn't be bred . If that logic were applied to all things unknown, we would still be living in caves.

As to what horrible genes and dangers lie behind that color??? Since partis and biewers have been bred for a number of years now, I believe any surprises or hidden dangers would have been exposed at this point.

Going from caves to where we are today has been pain staking. It was not done over night. There were mistakes made along the way.

I am simply stating that are we willing to take that risk? We are already out of the cave.

Have we REALLY seen Biewers and Partis long enough to know of any hidden dangers? Again, if you research the history of the Yorkie you will know the breed was not come about over night. We are talking hundreds of years.

[Elle]

Originally Posted by lisaly

Before I came to Yorkie Talk last summer, I had never heard of Biewers or Partis. When I spoke of variation within the breed, I spoke of what we call the standard Yorkie. I truly believe the standard is beautiful, but before I came to Yorkie Talk, I personally didn't see that many dogs that looked like the standard when I saw Yorkies outside of the show ring. I am a huge dog lover, and I really love almost all breeds of dogs. I think all Yorkies are beautiful, but probably because of the popularity of the breed, there is such variation in size, coat (and I'm not referring to parti-color) ear set and size, and other things relating to looks. That's what I was referring to when I was talking about variation. That doesn't make these dogs lesser in my eyes, but I said earlier that I have a certain look that I prefer when I see a Yorkie. My three girls' father had a short muzzle but he and his parents and grandparents had attained championship. I love that look, and I am seeing more dogs in the show ring that are having shorter muzzles. I also said earlier that, even though I love the silk coats and the shorter muzzle, when I do get another baby, I am going to be getting one from a breeder who I trust that breeds for health and temperament as the first priority instead of it being the looks that I love. I envision a look that I prefer for a Yorkie, but I know I will love a baby no matter what he/she looks like or how big he/she grows. I prefer my baby to be within the standard size, but I would love him/her no less if he/she grew larger than the standard.

I understand how you feel about protecting the standard and breeding to the standard. I'm not trying to change your mind about that, and I certainly don't have the need to do that. There are some people here who love the tricolored Yorkie that are not trying to change the standard I don't think. As I said earlier, I don't think they want to show the Partis or Biewers alongside the standard Yorkie. I really am very conflicted about all of this because I, too, don't want to see the standard change. I guess I don't think they are trying to do that. I don't think breeding Partis or Biewers is the same thing as breeding designer dogs because these dogs are all Yorkies. I actually love some of the designer breeds, but I am against breeding for them because they are not about breeding for the betterment of the breed. That's what I'd like to see from all breeders.

As far as what you said about these people not being honorable, I take great exception to that. I think you need to look at each individual before you can make a blanket statement like that.

All of this is so new to me, and I know I am going to have to do a lot of thought and research before I fully understand all of this and any ramifications. I do know that whatever conclusion I come to in my own mind, it's not really going to matter. That will be my opinion, and if the breeders who love a tri-colored Yorkie and are doing it to bring about sound, healthy dogs and looking to improve upon their breeding, I certainly won't condemn them or call them dishonorable. I'm not a breeder and have no intentions of breeding my babies. I know I will be getting a puppy as soon as I can, and I hope it will be as close to the traditional breed standard (color too) as possible. I also know that my husband and I want to raise two babies together. If I find a breeder whom I trust and respect and they have a tricolor Yorkie, we are considering that too because we also think they are beautiful..

Many yorkshire terriers being bred to the standard with health being the first concern. This is a good reason to become part of a breed club. A couple of breeders here do not dictate the breeders of the breed. They are seeking buyers for their puppies.

Designer breeds hurt purebreds.

[Cares4Dogs]

I've read the insulting comments about the parti yorkie breeders. Parti yorkies are not going to ruin the standard lines. Breeders protect THEIR lines and research before adding a new bitch or stud to their lines. If a parti unexpectedly pops up, you have the choice to eliminate them from coming up again. Its in your hands. Nobody is being forced to breed parti yorkies.

I'm tired of reading on here that if you have a parti your contributing to unethical breeding practices and ruining the yorkie standard. How can a parti yorkie ruin the yorkshire standard when they've been popping up in lines for years?

We as humans come in different colors and if we shun one color, we're racist, but does a color difference make us any less human??? No. Parti yorkies have been proven to be yorkies and thats why AKC is now registering them as purebred.

Some people are so worried about their lines, but the truth is is that they have the ability to control what comes up in their lines. Its a choice. Dont kick the rest of those who are open to color variation. I'd rather a beautiful color variation than a 5 legged roach-back & monkey-looking yorkie.

Why not accept a beautiful color variation? why? Nobody is forcing traditional colored yorkies to breed partis. You feel passionate about your breeding program, but so do those who breed partis. Breeding partis doesnt make someone unethical. Besides that...what gives you the right to go around policing other peoples ethics????? Is there anyone here who actually has an ethics badge..cuz if so I really want to see it.

[Tnyorkiemom]

Originally Posted by Cares4Dogs

I've read the insulting comments about the parti yorkie breeders. Parti yorkies are not going to ruin the standard lines. Breeders protect THEIR lines and research before adding a new bitch or stud to their lines. If a parti unexpectedly pops up, you have the choice to eliminate them from coming up again. Its in your hands. Nobody is being forced to breed parti yorkies.

I'm tired of reading on here that if you have a parti your contributing to unethical breeding practices and ruining the yorkie standard. How can a parti yorkie ruin the yorkshire standard when they've been popping up in lines for years?

We as humans come in different colors and if we shun one color, we're racist, but does a color difference make us any less human??? No. Parti yorkies have been proven to be yorkies and thats why AKC is now registering them as purebred.

Some people are so worried about their lines, but the truth is is that they have the ability to control what comes up in their lines. Its a choice. Dont kick the rest of those who are open to color variation. I'd rather a beautiful color variation than a 5 legged roach-back & monkey-looking yorkie.

Why not accept a beautiful color variation? why? Nobody is forcing traditional colored yorkies to breed partis. You feel passionate about your breeding program, but so do those who breed partis. Breeding partis doesnt make someone unethical. Besides that...what gives you the right to go around policing other peoples ethics????? Is there anyone here who actually has an ethics badge..cuz if so I really want to see it.

so so very well said

[Breezeaway]

Because this deer is spotted does it make him not a deer?
The piebald gene does show up in numerous animals and guess what some humans have the piebald gene. I guess the Shih Tzu really gets around doesn't it.

[Elle]

Originally Posted by peachbongi

Going from caves to where we are today has been pain staking. It was not done over night. There were mistakes made along the way.

I am simply stating that are we willing to take that risk? We are already out of the cave.

Have we REALLY seen Biewers and Partis long enough to know of any hidden dangers? Again, if you research the history of the Yorkie you will know the breed was not come about over night. We are talking hundreds of years.

I'm glad you brought that up. You talk about changing our standard. Standards are almost never changed. You are asking us to change it to alter to to allow something we do NO want in our breed.


Last and most important because you just are not getting this. We are not in a cave, it's not us, it's is YOU that won't listen. We just changed our standard. We just changed it. We just changed it intentionally to make sure that you would know: we do NOT WANT any kind of white dog in our ring. There is nothing more to talk about. You are intentionally breeding a faulted dog for profit. Sugar coat it with the finest sugar cane you still have a disqualified dog. Sneak it in, dye it, whatever the horrible ethics drive you to do. You still have a dog that isn't accepted by any of the hundreds of thousands of people in the dog fancy. Not so ingenious, just another person looking for the shortcut in life.

Showing our breed is difficult. It's hard to do. I've yet to find a real show person interested in this white dog. It's just to sell puppies.

[Cares4Dogs]

Originally Posted by Elle

I'm glad you brought that up. You talk about changing our standard. Standards are almost never changed. You are asking us to change it to alter to to allow something we do NO want in our breed.


Last and most important because you just are not getting this. We are not in a cave, it's not us, it's is YOU that won't listen. We just changed our standard. We just changed it. We just changed it intentionally to make sure that you would know: we do NOT WANT any kind of white dog in our ring. There is nothing more to talk about. You are intentionally breeding a faulted dog for profit. Sugar coat it with the finest sugar cane you still have a disqualified dog. Sneak it in, dye it, whatever the horrible ethics drive you to do. You still have a dog that isn't accepted by any of the hundreds of thousands of people in the dog fancy. Not so ingenious, just another person looking for the shortcut in life.

Showing our breed is difficult. It's hard to do. I've yet to find a real show person interested in this white dog. It's just to sell puppies.

Uhhhh I know a show breeder interested. Your speaking for a clique and not for an entire world of show breeders.

[Cares4Dogs]

Originally Posted by Breezeaway

Because this deer is spotted does it make him not a deer?
The piebald gene does show up in numerous animals and guess what some humans have the piebald gene. I guess the Shih Tzu really gets around doesn't it.

Great point made.

[Elle]

Originally Posted by Cares4Dogs

I've read the insulting comments about the parti yorkie breeders. Parti yorkies are not going to ruin the standard lines. Breeders protect THEIR lines and research before adding a new bitch or stud to their lines. If a parti unexpectedly pops up, you have the choice to eliminate them from coming up again. Its in your hands. Nobody is being forced to breed parti yorkies.

I'm tired of reading on here that if you have a parti your contributing to unethical breeding practices and ruining the yorkie standard. How can a parti yorkie ruin the yorkshire standard when they've been popping up in lines for years?

We as humans come in different colors and if we shun one color, we're racist, but does a color difference make us any less human??? No. Parti yorkies have been proven to be yorkies and thats why AKC is now registering them as purebred.

Some people are so worried about their lines, but the truth is is that they have the ability to control what comes up in their lines. Its a choice. Dont kick the rest of those who are open to color variation. I'd rather a beautiful color variation than a 5 legged roach-back & monkey-looking yorkie.

Why not accept a beautiful color variation? why? Nobody is forcing traditional colored yorkies to breed partis. You feel passionate about your breeding program, but so do those who breed partis. Breeding partis doesnt make someone unethical. Besides that...what gives you the right to go around policing other peoples ethics????? Is there anyone here who actually has an ethics badge..cuz if so I really want to see it.

Breeding different colors is unethical breeding.

Yorkshire Terrier Club of America (Awards)

[TammyJM]

Thank you Lisa and Jen....and yes, you are right Jen....I am in tears over your kind words.

I agree with you Lisa and how there was a blanket statement made about me, as a parti breeder, not being honorable and selling "designer dogs". First of all, write what you like....my parti girl is a purebred Yorkie so her babies are not designer puppies. Write what you may about me and even say that I am not honorable, if you must. It does not matter to me because I know my heart and the people that matter to me, also know who I am. I do think that you should refrain from making such drastic character attacks. I have my own opinions of you, but have never written them....

[Cares4Dogs]

Originally Posted by Elle

Breeding different colors is unethical breeding.

Yorkshire Terrier Club of America (Awards)

Can I see your ethics badge?

AKC accepts them.. thats the same registry your yorkies are registered with?

[gemy]

I have read this "debate" almost daily, and am still confused. Why did the breed club feel the need to put in a DQ for parti colored dogs? Why if it is a DQ, does the AKC allow parti's to be registered as Yorkies?

As others have posted here, including Lisaly, a membership in a breed club, in no way guarantees ethical breeding practices.

To paint every Parti breeder as unethical is a brush too broad for my liking. To ascribe only one motive for their breeding practices is sheer hubris.

I support Lisaly when she says there is a very wide variation in the "look" of the Yorkie. Particularly non show yorkies, but also within the show yorkies as well.
I rarely see Yorkies on the very busy streets of Toronto, but when I do most often I have to look two or three times, to actually see that it is a Yorkie.

So the breeders of standard color Yorkies indeed have some work cut out for them. The serious health concerns of Yorkies is a major task. ,not to mention coat and color variations.
How close is the breed club and the research they support; in identifying the LS gene or genes? What about LP ? luxating Patella? Where is the database for LS?

Our beautiful breed is under tremendous pressure, with all the indiscriminate breeding practices I've read about here.

I would hope that be you standard or parti breeder, that each and every reputable breeder would a) try to do what they can to stamp out this indiscriminate breeding. and b) support research to identify LS and not to breed LS dogs.

On a more general note; there was one poster who alluded to the fact that designer "mutts" are a threat to the purebred dog. In my opinion they are spot on!.

I share one small story on this note; my husband who is very proud of our purebreds, has an acquaintance who admired so much our dogs, and sought his advice on the purchase of a dog for his family. He spent several hours with him, to help him select the right temperament, and fit for his family. Well fast forward 4wks later, he tells Dave he selected a mini GoldenDoodle. He was paying $2500 for this dog, and asked Dave if that price was in the right range? The range of what, pray tell? Dave said, I can't help you out here, this is a mutt, I have no idea if you will get the temperament, and or the size you want. He said that if he wanted a mutt, why not go to the pound for a dog? He said well he wanted hypoallergenic and non shedding dog. Oh boy, well is the breeder of this mutt, guaranteeing that? He said; I don't know. Well what does your contract state? Contract? "from the buyer" What are your health guarantees? Well the buyer, asked none of these questions, and apparently has a simple agreement of purchase/sell from the breeder.

And this from a supposedly well educated man. Laying down $2500 for a mutt, with no contract, with no health guarantee, with minimal questions asked of the breeder.

AS purebred dog fanciers, lovers, enthusiasts, we need to take the message out there. Why buy purebred???

[Cares4Dogs]

Originally Posted by gemy

I have read this "debate" almost daily, and am still confused. Why did the breed club feel the need to put in a DQ for parti colored dogs? Why if it is a DQ, does the AKC allow parti's to be registered as Yorkies?
As others have posted here, including Lisaly, a membership in a breed club, in no way guarantees ethical breeding practices.

To paint every Parti breeder as unethical is a brush too broad for my liking. To ascribe only one motive for their breeding practices is sheer hubris.

I support Lisaly when she says there is a very wide variation in the "look" of the Yorkie. Particularly non show yorkies, but also within the show yorkies as well.
I rarely see Yorkies on the very busy streets of Toronto, but when I do most often I have to look two or three times, to actually see that it is a Yorkie.

So the breeders of standard color Yorkies indeed have some work cut out for them. The serious health concerns of Yorkies is a major task. ,not to mention coat and color variations.
How close is the breed club and the research they support; in identifying the LS gene or genes? What about LP ? luxating Patella? Where is the database for LS?

Our beautiful breed is under tremendous pressure, with all the indiscriminate breeding practices I've read about here.

I would hope that be you standard or parti breeder, that each and every reputable breeder would a) try to do what they can to stamp out this indiscriminate breeding. and b) support research to identify LS and not to breed LS dogs.

On a more general note; there was one poster who alluded to the fact that designer "mutts" are a threat to the purebred dog. In my opinion they are spot on!.

I share one small story on this note; my husband who is very proud of our purebreds, has an acquaintance who admired so much our dogs, and sought his advice on the purchase of a dog for his family. He spent several hours with him, to help him select the right temperament, and fit for his family. Well fast forward 4wks later, he tells Dave he selected a mini GoldenDoodle. He was paying $2500 for this dog, and asked Dave if that price was in the right range? The range of what, pray tell? Dave said, I can't help you out here, this is a mutt, I have no idea if you will get the temperament, and or the size you want. He said that if he wanted a mutt, why not go to the pound for a dog? He said well he wanted hypoallergenic and non shedding dog. Oh boy, well is the breeder of this mutt, guaranteeing that? He said; I don't know. Well what does your contract state? Contract? "from the buyer" What are your health guarantees? Well the buyer, asked none of these questions, and apparently has a simple agreement of purchase/sell from the breeder.

And this from a supposedly well educated man. Laying down $2500 for a mutt, with no contract, with no health guarantee, with minimal questions asked of the breeder.

AS purebred dog fanciers, lovers, enthusiasts, we need to take the message out there. Why buy purebred???

They've been proven to be purebred yorkies and AKC is registering them now. Once upon a time, they were put down at birth and the secret brushed under the rug. I guess that was ethical in some peoples mind.

I have an aunt who purchased 4 purebreds in the past. All ended up with cancer at very young ages (yorkies and westies). She's afraid to buy purebred again and has no dogs at this time because she's afraid of the heartache. I agree, health should be #1, but nobody has proven parti yorkies are unhealthy. I've never heard of one having any issues. I guess there were rumors from those who will go to any length to protect their lines. I've never skimmed the emergency section of YT to see if any partis have had any documented health issues on here, but from what I have seen its all been traditional colored yorkies so its not fair for anyone to point fingers and single out the partis based on color alone.

I think I'm tired of seeing the ethics finger being pointed at parti breeders based on coat color alone. I think someone needs to come up with proven facts before calling anyone unethical. I'm tired of the whole "my dog is better than your dog" grade school type behavior.

[Woogie Man]

Quote:
Originally Posted by peachbongi
Going from caves to where we are today has been pain staking. It was not done over night. There were mistakes made along the way.

I am simply stating that are we willing to take that risk? We are already out of the cave.

Have we REALLY seen Biewers and Partis long enough to know of any hidden dangers? Again, if you research the history of the Yorkie you will know the breed was not come about over night. We are talking hundreds of years.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Quote: Originally posted by Elle
I'm glad you brought that up. You talk about changing our standard. Standards are almost never changed. You are asking us to change it to alter to to allow something we do NO want in our breed.


Last and most important because you just are not getting this. We are not in a cave, it's not us, it's is YOU that won't listen. We just changed our standard. We just changed it. We just changed it intentionally to make sure that you would know: we do NOT WANT any kind of white dog in our ring. There is nothing more to talk about. You are intentionally breeding a faulted dog for profit. Sugar coat it with the finest sugar cane you still have a disqualified dog. Sneak it in, dye it, whatever the horrible ethics drive you to do. You still have a dog that isn't accepted by any of the hundreds of thousands of people in the dog fancy. Not so ingenious, just another person looking for the shortcut in life.

Showing our breed is difficult. It's hard to do. I've yet to find a real show person interested in this white dog. It's just to sell puppies.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Not trying to add to the argument but, Elle, I think Peachbongi was advocating for NOT changing the standard to allow variations. If you re-read her post, I think it was in reply to someone who is for changing.