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10-31-2008, 09:28 AM | #1 |
♥ love my girls!! ♥ Donating Member | Slightly Abnormal Bloodwork???? Bella is at the vet today for her spay, etc., etc..., and of course I asked them to do pre-surgical blood work. The vet just called me to let me know the results (because I asked him to)....he said that she's just slightly dehydrated (he said it was so right on on the line that he normally wouldn't have even mentioned it to anyone else, but since I asked he was telling me), and one of her kidney values was slightly elevated (he said more like upper limits of normal---normal was 27 and she was at 29)---can't remember which one he said, but I know it wasn't Creatinine because he made sure to say that one was good, and I don't think it was BUN either. He said that this one is probably off because she's dehydrated a little bit..... Here's the pickle....Bella drinks lots of water and pees a LOT every day, so it's weird to me that she's even slightly dehydrated, unless it's because she hasn't had anything to drink since last night around 9:30 or 10:00 pm??? Also, I've been thinking about switching her to a grainless food since she tears so much, but now I'm worried about doing that since she had an abnormal renal value..... I talked to him about whether or not a grainless diet would be okay because of the test results, and he said he doesn't recommend going grainless because it will set her up for renal problems. I've read a lot about grainless diets, and I thought what I'd read was that grainless diets are not good for dog with renal disease, but it doesn't CAUSE renal disease and is good for a healthy dog??? After saying a grainless diet is not good because dogs need a well-balanced diet, he said he recommends RC and Science Diet. I told him that I'm pretty sure I read about several dogs having problems with and even dying from the RC (that's right isn't it? or am I thinking of something else??), and he said you can't believe everything you read on the internet and if that were true there would be a law suit over it. I told him that I have her on a premium food (Innova California Natural), and that I was thinking of switching her over to Wellness or NV, to which he replied that those newer companies spend most of their money on advertising their product instead of putting their money into the quality of their food. IMO, he obviously doesn't know what he's talking about. I told him that I've never seen any advertising for any of those foods, and he just said that I could feed her what I want to, but those are the 2 he recommends. Anyone??? |
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10-31-2008, 09:35 AM | #2 |
Donating YT 10K Club Member | When the recalls were prominent in the news...Royal Canine voluntarily pulled some formulas sold in Canada. I don't think any deaths were related to this product. I was actually feeding mine RC at this time. I stopped using it because it gave Reese the itchies. Science diet isn't considered one of the better quality foods. I feed mine grain free food. Taste of the Wild. Btw, I've never even see any type of advertising for RC or Taste of the wild...so I don't know how he can base his opinion on advertising. I have seen print ads for SD though.
__________________ Deb, Reese, Reggie, Frazier, Libby, Sidney, & Bodie Trace & Ramsey who watch over us www.biewersbythebay.com |
10-31-2008, 09:42 AM | #3 |
And Rylee Finnegan Donating Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Metro Detroit, MI
Posts: 17,928
| It's so funny when vets try to given advice on nutrition because most of what they know, they learned outside of vet school, so you could have the same amount of knowledge as him... Ellie's vet said straight out that they learn very little in school and I could talk to a nutritionist and look online. Nutro is the one blamed on all of those problems... I have never seen any study that would indicate that high protein causes renal or liver issues but high protein shouldn't be fed if there is a preexisting condition. Whatever you're comfortable with... I personally lean toward lower protein but have no scientific anything to back that up. Dehydration is very normal when they aren't allowed to have water before surgery. I wouldn't worry about it and if you want to be extra cautious, you could retest in a month.
__________________ Crystal, Ellie May (RIP), Rylee Finnegan, and Gracie Boo🐶 |
10-31-2008, 09:43 AM | #4 | |
♥ love my girls!! ♥ Donating Member | Quote:
I know SD is a terrible food! When he said that I just rolled my eyes....sooo predictable!! | |
10-31-2008, 09:47 AM | #5 | |
♥ love my girls!! ♥ Donating Member | Quote:
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10-31-2008, 10:07 AM | #6 | |
Furbutts = LOVE Donating Member Moderator | Quote:
Did he also tell you that he probably gets 40% commission on RC and SciDi? And, that almost all SciDi foods contain carcinogens, listed right in their ingredient lists for all to see? And as far as marketing and advertising, that Hills SciDi spends MILLIONS on Vets while they're in vet school so that they'll later sell their food? Hello Kettle=Black! LOL! Just WOW. You sure you want this person as your vet? Anyhow, like Crystal said -- higher protein doesn't cause renal/liver/pancreas problems. You just don't want to feed HP diets to dogs w/ diseases of those organs. Also, she is probably dehydrated from being NPO after 10pm - so that's not unusual. Hang in there as best you can and try not to worry about those test levels. I'll be thinking about her.
__________________ ~ A friend told me I was delusional. I nearly fell off my unicorn. ~ °¨¨¨°ºOº°¨¨¨° Ann | Pfeiffer | Marcel Verdel Purcell | Wylie | Artie °¨¨¨°ºOº°¨¨¨° | |
10-31-2008, 10:23 AM | #7 | |
♥ love my girls!! ♥ Donating Member | Quote:
I've been seeing a vet in my old town who I really love, but I just found a vet here in the town I live that she will be seeing from here on out I think. They sell Innova products and a few other really good quality dog foods....no Science Diet or Prescription Diet anywhere to be seen!! And one of the vets there practices traditional vet medicine, but the other practices HOLISTIC vet medicine!!! I like that! And people bring their horses to her from all over because she does horse acupuncture?? I don't know the why of it, but I know a lot of people really like it for their horses, and she is in high demand for it. I hope we really like her when we go there the next time Bella needs anything...I'm almost certain we will! Thank you so much for saying that, I really appreciate it!! She's my baby, just like all of you and yours, so you know I worry. But, I just have to hope that all will go well today, as I'm sure it will. Thank you! | |
10-31-2008, 06:37 PM | #8 |
♥ love my girls!! ♥ Donating Member | Update.... I just wanted to let anyone know who wanted to?? that, just as everyone already knew I'm sure, Bella is just fine!! She's been home for ~3 hours and has slept most of them. The vet broke a tiny blood vessel when he was stitching her tummy up (looks ugly, but it looks worse than it is), and she ended up getting NINE extractions!!! He said all her permanent teeth are in, but she still had nine baby teeth. She has always chewed and chewed and chewed her toys, and we play tug quite a bit every single day....I feel like it's a little bit my fault somehow that she had to have so many extractions . He said this was common for very small dogs, though.... She was super THIRSTY when we got in the car and drank lots of water that I brought for her. And the vet said that she probably wouldn't be very hungry if at all tonight, but if she did eat she may throw it up.....but, the bf went out and picked up some chicken and even boiled it for her (since she's was on my lap ). She ate a couple of tiny "servings" (maybe 1 1/2 tablespoons full in total) and has kept all that down....I wanted to give her tiny bits at a time with time in between eating so we could make sure she'd keep it down. So far, besides being almost confused about where she wants to go and what she wants to do, she's done great!! Thank you all for your support. You have no idea how appreciative I am....I know I'm a big baby about stuff like this! So, thanks!! Oh!! I almost forgot....Wylie's Mom, when we got to the vet, I got to see his nice display of Hills Science Diet and Prescription Diet, as well as Royal Canin. Big surprise, huh!!! Lol! |
10-31-2008, 07:24 PM | #9 | |
Furbutts = LOVE Donating Member Moderator | Quote:
Marcel had a bunch of teeth pulled too at his neuter (I think 7) - so it's not uncommon. He healed up just fine, didn't seem to bother him at all! LOL on the food!! I tell ya.... Hugs to Bella and hope your weekend goes well.
__________________ ~ A friend told me I was delusional. I nearly fell off my unicorn. ~ °¨¨¨°ºOº°¨¨¨° Ann | Pfeiffer | Marcel Verdel Purcell | Wylie | Artie °¨¨¨°ºOº°¨¨¨° | |
11-01-2008, 03:07 AM | #10 | |
Donating Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Havre de Grace, MD
Posts: 1,536
| Quote:
Was Bella tested for a Urinary Tract Infection? If she has a UTI, she will pee a lot, get dehydrated, and drink lots of water.The cycle repeats frequently. After several months, and no solution, I'm assuming Gus' problem is diet related. Long term, I was feeding him Science Diet - Nature's Best for pups. I'm transitioning him to Wellness for Small Breeds. I noticed that certain chew toys, like Bully Sticks, rawhide bones, & real bones, make him very thirty. He also finds natural chew toys outside like wood chips. In the last month, I've seen enough improvement to continue with the dietary cause.
__________________ Niko (3 yrs) Gus (5 yrs) Squirt (17 yrs - RIP) | |
11-01-2008, 01:38 PM | #11 | ||
♥ love my girls!! ♥ Donating Member | Quote:
Quote:
Here are her lab values that were abnormal: HCT = 55.2% (normal = 37%-55%)----I think this was the hydration indicator??....it was only very slightly high just as he said. BUN = 29 (normal = 7-27)....I hope this was due to dehydration and it's not anything else; I'll have her retested in a month to make sure. ALT = 302 (normal = 10-100)....this one worries me! It isn't even close to normal! Why would a liver enzyme be so abnormal like that?? Could it have anything to do with the dehydration?? I'll probably have this checked again too in a month and go ahead and do a bile acid test too. The vet didn't seem worried about it, but he didn't give me a reason why it would be abnormal either--he just said that the value was fine to be able to go ahead with the surgery. I talked to him about liver shunts, but he said she didn't exhibit any of the neurologic signs that would indicate that (I know they don't have to yet though to still have it!) He also said that he was one of the only ones in this area who would do liver shunt surgeries, so he'd seen several cases. IF she did have a shunt, though, I'd take her somewhere they do a lot of them. There's a pretty good vet school in the town I live now, so they may be more familiar?? (which incidentally is where he graduated from). In the meantime, she has been letting me pick her up and lower her down from the couch and the bed (which I my bf and I had already taken the mattress and box springs off the rails and put on the ground before she came home just in case) for the most part. Only jumped twice....I'm doing what I can!! Tomorrow will probably be much harder, but I was hoping if I could keep her from jumping too much today and tomorrow it would help her heal faster maybe. | ||
11-01-2008, 01:57 PM | #12 |
BANNED! Join Date: May 2007 Location: USA
Posts: 11,073
| did they do urinalysis as when demi had bun of 28 and bun creatinine ratio of 31 they had me do urinalysis and she was +30 protein in urine - if creatinine is normal and demi had .9 usually not an issue but bun is tied to kidney's so that is the concern but it could be due to dehydration as well is what they told me. They are more concerned with demi as she has protein in urine and she is 4 and has periodontal disease but does not sound like the case with yours. Not sure about the other values but I would not be concerned with the bun if the creatinine was normal is what they told me |
11-01-2008, 02:03 PM | #13 | |
♥ love my girls!! ♥ Donating Member | Quote:
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11-01-2008, 03:24 PM | #14 |
And Rylee Finnegan Donating Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Metro Detroit, MI
Posts: 17,928
| That ALT is way too high. I would not be surprised if something is going on with her liver. When an ALT in a Yorkie is that high, a bile acids test should be done. It could be something like asymptomatic MVD. Anesthetic protocol and pain medications vary for liver compromised dogs, so the vet really should've waited on surgery and did a bile acids test when seeing that number (in my opinion). With an ALT 200 points above the highest it should be and no bile acids test being done, I would not give her any NSAIDs (Rimadyl) but again I'm not a vet and that is my opinion. That is the poing of preop blood work (to detect problems and do further testing if it is off so surgery is as safe as possible). Why would he do it if he was going to ignore it? I guess I'd wonder why he didn't tell you about the high ALT.
__________________ Crystal, Ellie May (RIP), Rylee Finnegan, and Gracie Boo🐶 |
11-01-2008, 04:05 PM | #15 | |
♥ love my girls!! ♥ Donating Member | Quote:
Sooo, here's the big question...what will happen if she does have a shunt or MVD? | |
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