YorkieTalk.com Forums - Yorkshire Terrier Community


Welcome to the YorkieTalk.com Forums Community - the community for Yorkshire Terriers.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. You will be able to chat with over 35,000 YorkieTalk members, read over 2,000,000 posted discussions, and view more than 15,000 Yorkie photos in the YorkieTalk Photo Gallery after you register. We would love to have you as a member!

Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please click here to contact us.

Go Back   YorkieTalk.com Forums - Yorkshire Terrier Community > YorkieTalk > Sick & Injured / Emergencies Talk
Register Blogs FAQ Calendar JavaChat Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 05-23-2007, 06:30 AM   #1
YorkieTalk Newbie!
 
merlinsmom's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Houston
Posts: 4
Default New Here - Liver Questions (Long)

Some background: Merlin (age 9) started having seizure-like episodes last week. Our regular vet sent us to a neurologist, who after examining him, said he thought it might be a liver problem. We had a bile duct test done Friday and the results came back abnormal Monday. He hasn't had any episodes since Thursday, but he still isn't really himself. We are switching him to low protein (Hills k/d) which he seems to love. Our regular vet is waiting for the neurologist to consult with an internal med vet to see exactly what he recommends. Because of his age our vet said she thinks surgery is out and she doesn't think he will need to have a biopsy because we can just treat for MVD since that is the most likely.

On to the questions: Once he gets on meds and a new diet how soon should I expect to see him back to his old self? I was also curious what food everyone uses because I know there are alternatives to Hills. Did anyone else have an older dog get diagnosed with this? How did things turn out? Most of what I read is about puppies, so I wasn't sure if it was different when it is an older dog.

Sorry this is so long, but everything I have read on here so far has been very helpful! I just want my baby to get better.
merlinsmom is offline   Reply With Quote
Welcome Guest!
Not Registered?

Join today and remove this ad!

Old 05-23-2007, 06:38 AM   #2
Bella Boo & Diggy Too!
Donating GS Member
 
diggy4's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Detroit
Posts: 6,156
Blog Entries: 5
Default Hugs For Merlin!!!!

Hi am wishing you the best and like you I have read a lot on puupies with liver conditions....but not much on 10 year olds. Wish I could help you more but I am sure you will get great advice on here about this sort of issue.
__________________
ALL DOGS GO TO HEAVEN
diggy4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2007, 06:55 AM   #3
Donating Senior Yorkie Talker
 
sunyluvsma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 322
Default

My girlfriend has a 7 year old that had Liver Shunt surgery and she is doing well with diet and lactulose. She wishes she would have tried this diet before she did the surgery to see if Sherri would have stabilized with out having the surgery. It's 4 months later and she still has Sherri on the K/D but is doing well.

I would think you would see a difference after the first day or two. What are the pups symptoms? What are the numbers?
__________________
Carole~ Mom to Boomer, Ally, Joey & Kaia Noel~
sunyluvsma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2007, 07:03 AM   #4
YorkieTalk Newbie!
 
merlinsmom's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Houston
Posts: 4
Default

Last Tuesday we had just gotten in bed for an afternoon nap (we've been remodeling the bathroom) and just minutes after laying down he jumped up and started stumbling around the bed like he was drunk. I put him on the floor because I thought maybe he had hurt his back again and he just kept pulling to the right side when he walked. Took him to the vet who examined him and said he looked okay - watch him. Next day (also around lunch) he started walking with a pull to the right side again. Then the really scary incident happened that evening while he was eating dinner. He ran into the dining room and his head was thrust way back as he looked scared and lost. Took him to the vet and started Phenobarb. We had another few incidents the next day of his pulling up a leg and trying to run around wildly like he was in pain. The vet then called for a neuro consult, which happened the next day. Got the BAT and here we are.

I am not sure what the actual numbers were on his test. I freaked and didn't retain as much info as I should have. I am talking to the vet again today, so I will get the exact results.

It's good to know that he is not the only older dog. I feel a lot more positive about his prognosis.
merlinsmom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2007, 07:18 AM   #5
Donating YT 3000 Club Member
 
Yorkieluv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 7,178
Default

What were the results of the bile acid test? That will help. Typically, not always if the dog's post meal results are under 100, it usually indicates MVD and if it's above 100, it's more indicative of an external shunt. My boy was an exception to this, as his results were over 300, and they were not able to find the shunt when they went in for surgery. So he was basically diagnosed with internal liver shunt/MVD.
I just read about a yorkie that had the liver shunt surgery at age 8 and everything went fine.
With new diet, lactulose, and supplements, you usually see immediate results. The seizing will stop and you will see an improvement in your dog's behavior.
The lactulose is extremely important when they have liver issues...The amount of lactulose that you give should be determined by stool consistency. On lactulose, your babies stool should be soft and difficult to pick up but not a pile of diarrhea and not firm. Lactulose should be given directly after meals because it helps push the toxins right out of the body.

There are other alternatives to the k/d...There's Hill's l/d, Royal Canin Hepatic LS 14, and after a couple of months when your baby is stabilized, you can also feed Solid Gold Holistique Blendz(Petco), Avoderm Vegetarian(online), Natural Balance Vegetarian(Petco).

Supplements like Denosyl (Sam-E) and Milk thistle are also extremely beneficial for the liver. The antioxidants help prevent further damage and these supplements also help repair the damaged parts of the liver.
__________________
Miko 's his Mommy
Yorkieluv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2007, 08:51 AM   #6
Donating YT 10K Club Member
 
chattiesmom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Alabama
Posts: 17,667
Default

I don't have any words of wisdom for you only a big hug - get well wishes - and a great big YorkieTalk welcome!

WELCOME! to you and Merlin
__________________
Silk Step-In HarnessesSqueak-N-Treat
chattiesmom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2007, 09:40 AM   #7
My hairy-legged girls
Donating Member
 
Yorkiedaze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: lompoc, ca.
Posts: 12,228
Default

There is no cure without an operation. I wouldn't be feeding any dog foods at all. It's just too hard on the liver. I wish you all the best with your baby.
Yorkiedaze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2007, 10:10 AM   #8
Donating YT 3000 Club Member
 
Yorkieluv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 7,178
Default

Good point, I forgot to mention that I don't feed any of those foods anymore...I have a special homecooked diet that I make for my liver compromised dog.
If it's MVD, an operation won't fix the problem because MVD is not repairable through surgery, it's managed through diet, lactulose, and supplements. An extrahepatic shunt CAN be fixed through surgery though.
__________________
Miko 's his Mommy
Yorkieluv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2007, 12:09 PM   #9
Mommy's Lil' Miracle
Donating Member
 
drawlins27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Mufreesboro, TN
Posts: 1,028
Default

The L/D (canned) is not hard on their liver is it? Dr. Tobias said that the L/D was formulated for liver compromised dogs and that is the only food that I should feed Lily right now. She didn't even want me to use the K/D. She said that I could put her on the homemade diet but only short term because the nutrition had not been proven?
__________________
I LOVE my little Furbutts!
drawlins27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2007, 12:10 PM   #10
Donating YT 3000 Club Member
 
Yorkieluv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 7,178
Default

The l/d and rc hepatic are the foods they recommend, they're safe for the liver
__________________
Miko 's his Mommy
Yorkieluv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2007, 12:12 PM   #11
Donating YT 3000 Club Member
 
Yorkieluv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 7,178
Default

Also, I wanted to mention..I read that your vet put your liver compromised dog on phenobarbitol. This will destroy your furbaby's liver even more. Ask them to do potassium bromide instead. This is what is typically used for dogs with liver problems.
__________________
Miko 's his Mommy
Yorkieluv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2007, 12:25 PM   #12
My hairy-legged girls
Donating Member
 
Yorkiedaze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: lompoc, ca.
Posts: 12,228
Default

If you read the label on the dog food you will find there isn't any real food in it and no neutritional value.
Yorkiedaze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2007, 12:38 PM   #13
Mommy's Lil' Miracle
Donating Member
 
drawlins27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Mufreesboro, TN
Posts: 1,028
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yorkiedaze View Post
If you read the label on the dog food you will find there isn't any real food in it and no neutritional value.
I know Right now my main concern is just to get her stable and get the toxins out of her system and see if her neurological symptoms get better. This was what Dr. Tobias at UT told me to do. I am hoping to eventually get her on the Royal Canine Hepatic formula.
__________________
I LOVE my little Furbutts!
drawlins27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2007, 10:49 AM   #14
Yorkie Yakker
 
oktech05's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Springdale AR
Posts: 54
Exclamation

Quote:
Originally Posted by sunyluvsma View Post
My girlfriend has a 7 year old that had Liver Shunt surgery and she is doing well with diet and lactulose. She wishes she would have tried this diet before she did the surgery to see if Sherri would have stabilized with out having the surgery. It's 4 months later and she still has Sherri on the K/D but is doing well.

I would think you would see a difference after the first day or two. What are the pups symptoms? What are the numbers?
Sorry this reply is so long but am concerned about my baby...........

I have a few questions about the symptoms and what to do........ My pupppy Dax, 4 months old, purebred yorkie with (supposedly) no hereditary history of liver shunt is having some strange symptoms that my vet is blaming on food allergies but I am not so sure.
Dax was perfect, healthy until about 3 months and he had a sudden bout of massive diarrhea one night when I was at work. I had no Idea such a small dog could produce so much...he had gone from normal stool to pretty thin in less than 10 hours. He acted fine however no other symptoms and was drinking and interested in eating but I still took him to the vet for possible hypoglycemia because he was shivering. The vet checked him out and did a fecal smear, he had a normal temp was acting normal but the vet said he had blood in his stool, a lot of bacteria, and no parasites. I took Dax home with an antibiotic and his stool returned to normal before the end of the day.
When it came time to stop the meds, however, the diarrhea returned with a vengence. The vet this time gave him flagyl, mixed with pet tinic (vitamin), and a probiotic mixed with plain yougurt and suggested hamburger and rice diet if this did not help. He loved the yogurt but every time I tried to get him to take the vitamin he would throw up yellow bile looking liquid even though the meds were brown(sometimes even 4 hrs later) and refuse food and water sometimes all day, so after several attempts I stopped it and when the diarrhea returrned I put him on the hamburger and rice diet which resolved the diarrhea. The vet suggested I buy a pet vitamin supplement and mix into his food but that had the same result even in minute quantities. (I have heard that pups with liver shunt do not tolerate vitamins and some other meds well because they are not filtered properly.
He has been on the hamburger and rice for a weed now and he absolutely loves it (he's lying at my feet now on his blanket and has carried his bowl over from a little while ago so he can lick it lol) so I am considering home cooking for him . Anyway everything appeared fine until last night when he had a staring episode, for a couple hours he kept looking at something that was not there. Even at bedtime, when he usually jumps right under the covers and goes to sleep when I get in bed, he just kept staring and could not be distracted even with favorite toys. I have also caught him licking the plaster on the wall? He appears healthy most of the time even though he still has occaisional diarrhea even on the diet. This is my first yorkie baby and I am hooked. I am so sorry this is such a long reply but I am new here and could not figure out how to start a new thread yet.
oktech05 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2007, 12:09 PM   #15
Donating YT 3000 Club Member
 
Yorkieluv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 7,178
Default

oktech05, I am sorry that your baby has been having problems I know it's hard to see them getting sick and not knowing what is wrong.

If you suspect liver shunt, and even if you don't...I would suggest having a bile acid test done on your baby. The one where they take the pre and post meal results...This is a $40 test that is 100% worth the money for peace of mind. Those staring episodes are things that dogs with liver shunt/mvd do when toxins are reaching the brain. Of course, there may be other reasons why your baby is doing this though.

Red meat is the absolute worst thing for a liver compromised dog. They may be fine on it at first, but the toxins will accumulate due to not being filtered properly by the liver, and will cause your dog to have those episodes and eventually seizures.
Watch for signs of head pressing/rubbing against furniture or walls.

You are right, certain meds and supplements make these liver compromised babies nauseous, and will make them throw up. But vitamins are not bad for them. In fact, they don't get enough vitamins because of their liver not being able to properly filter and take the nutrients. I have to give my dog supplements like Vitamin B-complex, vit. e, zinc, milk thistle, and denosyl. But you have to be very careful not to "overdose" on them because then it can become hard on the liver.
If you have any other questions please ask, or you can send me a PM.
__________________
Miko 's his Mommy
Yorkieluv is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks



Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off




Google
 

SHOP NOW: Amazon :: eBay :: Buy.com :: Newegg :: PetStore :: Petco :: PetSmart


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 06:49 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2003 - 2018 YorkieTalk.com
Privacy Policy - Terms of Use

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360 361 362 363 364 365 366 367 368 369 370 371 372 373 374 375 376 377 378 379 380 381 382 383 384 385 386 387 388 389 390 391 392 393 394 395 396 397 398 399 400 401 402 403 404 405 406 407 408 409 410 411 412 413 414 415 416 417 418 419 420 421 422 423 424 425 426 427 428 429 430 431 432 433 434 435 436 437 438 439 440 441 442 443 444 445 446 447 448 449 450 451 452 453 454 455 456 457 458 459 460 461 462 463 464 465 466 467 468 469 470 471 472 473 474 475 476 477 478 479 480 481 482 483 484 485 486 487 488 489 490 491 492 493 494 495 496 497 498 499 500 501 502 503 504 505 506 507 508 509 510 511 512 513 514 515 516 517 518 519 520 521 522 523 524 525 526 527 528 529 530 531 532 533 534 535 536 537 538 539 540 541 542 543 544 545 546 547 548 549 550 551 552 553 554 555 556 557 558 559 560 561 562 563 564 565 566 567 568 569 570 571 572 573 574 575 576 577 578 579 580 581 582 583 584 585 586 587 588 589 590 591 592 593 594 595 596 597 598 599 600 601 602 603 604 605 606 607 608 609 610 611 612 613 614 615 616 617 618 619 620 621 622 623 624 625 626 627 628 629 630 631 632 633 634 635 636 637 638 639 640 641 642 643 644 645 646 647 648 649 650 651 652 653 654 655 656 657 658 659 660 661 662 663 664 665 666 667 668 669 670 671 672 673 674 675 676 677 678 679 680 681 682 683 684 685 686 687 688 689 690 691 692 693 694 695 696 697 698 699 700 701 702 703 704 705 706 707 708 709 710 711 712 713 714 715 716 717 718 719 720 721 722 723 724 725 726 727 728 729 730 731 732 733 734 735 736 737 738 739 740 741 742 743 744 745 746 747 748 749 750 751 752 753 754 755 756 757 758 759 760 761 762 763 764 765 766 767 768 769 770 771 772 773 774 775 776 777 778 779 780 781 782 783 784 785 786 787 788 789 790 791 792 793 794 795 796 797 798 799 800 801 802 803 804 805 806 807 808 809 810 811 812 813 814 815 816 817 818 819 820 821 822 823 824 825 826 827 828 829 830 831 832 833 834 835 836 837 838 839 840 841 842 843 844 845 846 847 848 849 850 851 852 853 854 855 856 857 858 859 860 861 862 863 864 865 866 867 868 869 870 871 872 873 874 875 876 877 878 879 880 881 882 883 884 885 886 887 888 889 890 891 892 893 894 895 896 897 898 899 900 901 902 903 904 905 906 907 908 909 910 911 912 913 914 915 916 917 918 919 920 921 922 923 924 925 926 927 928 929 930 931 932 933 934 935 936 937 938 939 940 941 942 943 944 945 946 947 948 949 950 951 952 953 954 955 956 957 958 959 960 961 962 963 964 965 966 967 968 969 970 971 972 973 974 975 976 977 978 979 980 981 982 983 984 985 986 987 988 989 990 991 992 993 994 995 996 997 998 999 1000 1001 1002 1003 1004 1005 1006 1007 1008 1009 1010 1011 1012 1013 1014 1015 1016 1017 1018 1019 1020 1021 1022 1023 1024 1025 1026 1027 1028 1029 1030 1031 1032 1033 1034 1035 1036 1037 1038 1039 1040 1041 1042 1043 1044 1045 1046 1047 1048 1049 1050 1051 1052 1053 1054 1055 1056 1057 1058 1059 1060 1061 1062 1063 1064 1065 1066 1067 1068 1069 1070 1071 1072 1073 1074 1075 1076 1077 1078 1079 1080 1081 1082 1083 1084 1085 1086 1087 1088 1089 1090 1091 1092 1093 1094 1095 1096 1097 1098 1099 1100 1101 1102 1103 1104 1105 1106 1107 1108 1109 1110 1111 1112 1113 1114 1115 1116 1117 1118 1119 1120 1121 1122 1123 1124 1125 1126 1127 1128 1129 1130 1131 1132 1133 1134 1135 1136 1137 1138 1139 1140 1141 1142 1143 1144 1145 1146 1147 1148 1149 1150 1151 1152 1153 1154 1155 1156 1157 1158 1159 1160 1161 1162 1163 1164 1165 1166