New Here - Liver Questions (Long) Some background: Merlin (age 9) started having seizure-like episodes last week. Our regular vet sent us to a neurologist, who after examining him, said he thought it might be a liver problem. We had a bile duct test done Friday and the results came back abnormal Monday. He hasn't had any episodes since Thursday, but he still isn't really himself. We are switching him to low protein (Hills k/d) which he seems to love. Our regular vet is waiting for the neurologist to consult with an internal med vet to see exactly what he recommends. Because of his age our vet said she thinks surgery is out and she doesn't think he will need to have a biopsy because we can just treat for MVD since that is the most likely. On to the questions: Once he gets on meds and a new diet how soon should I expect to see him back to his old self? I was also curious what food everyone uses because I know there are alternatives to Hills. Did anyone else have an older dog get diagnosed with this? How did things turn out? Most of what I read is about puppies, so I wasn't sure if it was different when it is an older dog. Sorry this is so long, but everything I have read on here so far has been very helpful! I just want my baby to get better. |
Hugs For Merlin!!!! Hi am wishing you the best and like you I have read a lot on puupies with liver conditions....but not much on 10 year olds. Wish I could help you more but I am sure you will get great advice on here about this sort of issue. |
My girlfriend has a 7 year old that had Liver Shunt surgery and she is doing well with diet and lactulose. She wishes she would have tried this diet before she did the surgery to see if Sherri would have stabilized with out having the surgery. It's 4 months later and she still has Sherri on the K/D but is doing well. I would think you would see a difference after the first day or two. What are the pups symptoms? What are the numbers? |
Last Tuesday we had just gotten in bed for an afternoon nap (we've been remodeling the bathroom) and just minutes after laying down he jumped up and started stumbling around the bed like he was drunk. I put him on the floor because I thought maybe he had hurt his back again and he just kept pulling to the right side when he walked. Took him to the vet who examined him and said he looked okay - watch him. Next day (also around lunch) he started walking with a pull to the right side again. Then the really scary incident happened that evening while he was eating dinner. He ran into the dining room and his head was thrust way back as he looked scared and lost. Took him to the vet and started Phenobarb. We had another few incidents the next day of his pulling up a leg and trying to run around wildly like he was in pain. The vet then called for a neuro consult, which happened the next day. Got the BAT and here we are. I am not sure what the actual numbers were on his test. I freaked and didn't retain as much info as I should have. I am talking to the vet again today, so I will get the exact results. It's good to know that he is not the only older dog. I feel a lot more positive about his prognosis. |
What were the results of the bile acid test? That will help. Typically, not always if the dog's post meal results are under 100, it usually indicates MVD and if it's above 100, it's more indicative of an external shunt. My boy was an exception to this, as his results were over 300, and they were not able to find the shunt when they went in for surgery. So he was basically diagnosed with internal liver shunt/MVD. I just read about a yorkie that had the liver shunt surgery at age 8 and everything went fine. With new diet, lactulose, and supplements, you usually see immediate results. The seizing will stop and you will see an improvement in your dog's behavior. The lactulose is extremely important when they have liver issues...The amount of lactulose that you give should be determined by stool consistency. On lactulose, your babies stool should be soft and difficult to pick up but not a pile of diarrhea and not firm. Lactulose should be given directly after meals because it helps push the toxins right out of the body. There are other alternatives to the k/d...There's Hill's l/d, Royal Canin Hepatic LS 14, and after a couple of months when your baby is stabilized, you can also feed Solid Gold Holistique Blendz(Petco), Avoderm Vegetarian(online), Natural Balance Vegetarian(Petco). Supplements like Denosyl (Sam-E) and Milk thistle are also extremely beneficial for the liver. The antioxidants help prevent further damage and these supplements also help repair the damaged parts of the liver. |
I don't have any words of wisdom for you only a big hug :ghug: - get well wishes :getwellso - and a great big YorkieTalk welcome! :yorkietal WELCOME! to you and Merlin :yorkietal |
There is no cure without an operation. I wouldn't be feeding any dog foods at all. It's just too hard on the liver. I wish you all the best with your baby. |
Good point, I forgot to mention that I don't feed any of those foods anymore...I have a special homecooked diet that I make for my liver compromised dog. If it's MVD, an operation won't fix the problem because MVD is not repairable through surgery, it's managed through diet, lactulose, and supplements. An extrahepatic shunt CAN be fixed through surgery though. |
The L/D (canned) is not hard on their liver is it? Dr. Tobias said that the L/D was formulated for liver compromised dogs and that is the only food that I should feed Lily right now. She didn't even want me to use the K/D. She said that I could put her on the homemade diet but only short term because the nutrition had not been proven? |
The l/d and rc hepatic are the foods they recommend, they're safe for the liver |
Also, I wanted to mention..I read that your vet put your liver compromised dog on phenobarbitol. This will destroy your furbaby's liver even more. Ask them to do potassium bromide instead. This is what is typically used for dogs with liver problems. |
If you read the label on the dog food you will find there isn't any real food in it and no neutritional value. |
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I have a few questions about the symptoms and what to do........ My pupppy Dax, 4 months old, purebred yorkie with (supposedly) no hereditary history of liver shunt is having some strange symptoms that my vet is blaming on food allergies but I am not so sure. Dax was perfect, healthy until about 3 months and he had a sudden bout of massive diarrhea one night when I was at work. I had no Idea such a small dog could produce so much...he had gone from normal stool to pretty thin in less than 10 hours. He acted fine however no other symptoms and was drinking and interested in eating but I still took him to the vet for possible hypoglycemia because he was shivering. The vet checked him out and did a fecal smear, he had a normal temp was acting normal but the vet said he had blood in his stool, a lot of bacteria, and no parasites. I took Dax home with an antibiotic and his stool returned to normal before the end of the day. When it came time to stop the meds, however, the diarrhea returned with a vengence. The vet this time gave him flagyl, mixed with pet tinic (vitamin), and a probiotic mixed with plain yougurt and suggested hamburger and rice diet if this did not help. He loved the yogurt but every time I tried to get him to take the vitamin he would throw up yellow bile looking liquid even though the meds were brown(sometimes even 4 hrs later) and refuse food and water sometimes all day, so after several attempts I stopped it and when the diarrhea returrned I put him on the hamburger and rice diet which resolved the diarrhea. The vet suggested I buy a pet vitamin supplement and mix into his food but that had the same result even in minute quantities. (I have heard that pups with liver shunt do not tolerate vitamins and some other meds well because they are not filtered properly. He has been on the hamburger and rice for a weed now and he absolutely loves it (he's lying at my feet now on his blanket and has carried his bowl over from a little while ago so he can lick it lol) so I am considering home cooking for him:thumbup: . Anyway everything appeared fine until last night when he had a staring episode, for a couple hours he kept looking at something that was not there. Even at bedtime, when he usually jumps right under the covers and goes to sleep when I get in bed, he just kept staring and could not be distracted even with favorite toys. I have also caught him licking the plaster on the wall? He appears healthy most of the time even though he still has occaisional diarrhea even on the diet. This is my first yorkie baby:aimeeyork and I am hooked. I am so sorry this is such a long reply but I am new here and could not figure out how to start a new thread yet. :) |
oktech05, I am sorry that your baby has been having problems :( I know it\'s hard to see them getting sick and not knowing what is wrong. If you suspect liver shunt, and even if you don\'t...I would suggest having a bile acid test done on your baby. The one where they take the pre and post meal results...This is a $40 test that is 100% worth the money for peace of mind. Those staring episodes are things that dogs with liver shunt/mvd do when toxins are reaching the brain. Of course, there may be other reasons why your baby is doing this though. Red meat is the absolute worst thing for a liver compromised dog. They may be fine on it at first, but the toxins will accumulate due to not being filtered properly by the liver, and will cause your dog to have those episodes and eventually seizures. Watch for signs of head pressing/rubbing against furniture or walls. You are right, certain meds and supplements make these liver compromised babies nauseous, and will make them throw up. But vitamins are not bad for them. In fact, they don\'t get enough vitamins because of their liver not being able to properly filter and take the nutrients. I have to give my dog supplements like Vitamin B-complex, vit. e, zinc, milk thistle, and denosyl. But you have to be very careful not to "overdose" on them because then it can become hard on the liver. If you have any other questions please ask, or you can send me a PM. |
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