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Old 10-11-2012, 07:43 AM   #1
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Default Vaccines and diarrhea?

Layla got diarrhea last night (Wednesday night) and I'm wondering if it could have some connection to the vaccines she got Tuesday night.

On Tuesday we took all three dogs in for booster shots. The ones Layla got were rabies and DHPP. THe other two dogs are fine (except some tenderness in Kash's back leg area, which could just be sore from the shots because he got one in each side).

Layla stayed at my grandma's house yesterday while we were at work and there were no accidents. My grandma is away on holidays and Layla couldn't have gotten into anything, so I know she didn't eat anything while she was there. After work she had a good pee and lots of poop but it was good and solid.

Last night she pooped again in the house and it was very soft but still formed. (for those who don't know, she is paraplegic and can't feel herself poop so it's not out of character - but we do express it and normally she doesn't go in between expressings). While I was upstairs an hour or so later, my husband came up and said she had a pool of diarrhea, and when he picked her up it squirted out of her butt onto the wall He cleaned it all up. That was around 10:00. He tried expressing her and got some pee out but she was just really gassy.

At midnight we got up and she had a trail of liquid poop from our bedroom to the bathroom. He showered her off, I cleaned up the trail. At 2:00 again, we had to clean her, and the floor. Then again at 4:00. Then we got up at 6 and she seemed better, but then at 6:30 again, the trail of poop

I fed her plain rice this morning, and I went to the store for a can of 100%pumpkin and gave her about a tablespoon full - she gobbled it up! I am working from home today so I can be with her and keep her clean if needed. She does not seem lethargic today - she is sure barking at her brother and sister when they try to get attention! Oh, but I can't get her to pee. She hasn't gone since last night but there is nothing in her bladder. She has water right in front of her - should I force her to drink? I worry about dehydration with all the diarrhea.

Do you guys think this could be a side effect of one of the vaccines? She has never had a reaction like this before, so that's why I wonder. There was nothing else she could get into though. The first soft poop started almost exactly 24 hours after her shots.
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Old 10-11-2012, 11:31 AM   #2
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I think yes, it very well could be the vaccines. Maybe get one at a time, with a month in between would be easier on her system. If the diarrhea lasts longer than 24 hours, I'd take her to the vet. Wouldn't hurt to encourage her to drink...
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Old 10-11-2012, 11:54 AM   #3
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Thanks for the reply! I really don't remember her getting two vaccines at once ever before actually, so maybe it was just because of the two. For some reason both were due at the same time this year. I know we only do rabies every 3 years and that came up this year so maybe that's why.

Anyways, no diarrhea now since this morning. It's been about 6 or 7 hours now so that's a plus! There is no poop at all yet but I'm hoping it's going to be closer to normal when it does come. I did add a tiny bit of chicken broth to her water and she drank it up... I was able to express her bladder about an hour later and it came out really clear. I think that's a good sign... if she was dehydrated I think it would be a lot more concentrated.

She is resting now. I really hope this is the end of it. I can still smell that diarrhea mixed with Lysol and Clorox lingering in my nose every once in awhile. I tell ya, having human children someday is probably going to kill me when I can barely handle some doggy diarrhea lol But she sure did stink up the house last night!
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Old 10-11-2012, 12:00 PM   #4
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When you pay for the vaccine, you also pay for follow-up calls. I would definitely let the vet know about this, I don't think it's absolutely the cause, but it could be, and it should be written in her permanent records. I've heard you shouldn't get rabies with any other shots. Also, if it is some type of allergic reaction, you don't know to which shot she's sensitive. Hope she's feeling better soon!
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Old 10-11-2012, 01:21 PM   #5
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Definitely could be! How old is Layla? Just wondering if DHPP is even necessary anymore...

Once they have a reaction, the next one is usually worse.

Hope she feels better!
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Old 10-11-2012, 01:26 PM   #6
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Layla is almost 7. I didn't know it wasn't needed as they got older. The vet also said she normally gives a kennel cough vaccine but we wouldn't need it since Layla is never boarded anywhere. I really don't want her to be over-vaccinated!

So far, still no diarrhea. She is zonked out sleeping still. Turns out some of us who stayed up all night still have to work all day Another hour or so and I think I'll be napping too!
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Old 10-11-2012, 01:45 PM   #7
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Okay I'm losing my mind. It gets confusing when we take three dogs in for one vet appointment!

Layla only had ONE vaccine on Tuesday. I just checked my records. The vet gives her DHPP + CV annually (which I will probably cut back on now that I know that) and rabies every three years. She is due for rabies again next year.

The other two, Lucy and Kash, had two shots each, and theirs were rabies and DHPP + CV. I know that they were vaccinated before adopting them from a rescue last year.

So I don't know, I'm just kind of confused about it all!

I noticed on Layla's papers there were two little stickers on it from the vaccine labels, and one said "Killed Virus" and one said "Modified Live Virus" So I wonder if the modified live virus could be the cause?

I will talk to the vet about it I guess!
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Old 10-11-2012, 02:18 PM   #8
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Vaccines are somewhat controversial, however there are hardened facts regarding their pros and cons that isn't just some internet hogwash. For a while there, yearly vaccines were the thing to do. Nearly all vets recommended yearly vaccines. That is now a thing of the past! And any vet who is doing them is not following AAHA protocol (which is every 3 years) and simply out for money or just ignorant to the new facts. It sounds like your vet isn't doing yearlys though, which is good!! Lots do them every 3 years. I just think after a certain point they are totally unncessary. Boosters aren't really 'boostering' anything once they've over 1 year old. They are either immune or their not.

Here's a good thread with a lot of info:
http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/yor...-not-give.html


Canine Vaccine Recommendations - Page 1

Dr Dodd's vaccine protocol: Dr-Dodds-ChangingVaccProtocol

The AAHA (The American Animal Hospital Association) protocol is what most vets should follow (especially if they are an AAHA accredited office). Currently, the schedule is every 3 years, however it's been proven they last much longer. Yearly vaccines have been proven to be harmful and unnecessary, even by the biggest animal association that vet practices should follow by. "immunity lasts at least 5 years for distemper and parvo, and at least 7 years for adenovirus."
The Best Part About the New Dog Vaccination Guidelines

I'm really glad Layla is feeling better!
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Old 10-11-2012, 02:50 PM   #9
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Thank you Britster! I am going to read through all of your links.

We are in Canada, so I'm not sure if the standard protocol is different, but I do really agree that animals are overvaccinated. The DHPP + CV is given annually by my vet, and that is multiple vaccines in one. I don't think I will have them get it yearly anymore. They are inside dogs and are very rarely around any other dogs. Most of their exercise comes from just running around our own house or back yard. I think that for the most part, their chances of getting most viruses to begin with is pretty low.
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Old 10-11-2012, 04:19 PM   #10
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Thank you Britster! I am going to read through all of your links.

We are in Canada, so I'm not sure if the standard protocol is different, but I do really agree that animals are overvaccinated. The DHPP + CV is given annually by my vet, and that is multiple vaccines in one. I don't think I will have them get it yearly anymore. They are inside dogs and are very rarely around any other dogs. Most of their exercise comes from just running around our own house or back yard. I think that for the most part, their chances of getting most viruses to begin with is pretty low.
Wow! They definitely don't need any more vaccines. I'm obviously no vet, and you have to do what you feel is right. But yes you are way over-vaccinating.

AAHA hospitals are also in Canada. There is also a CVMA (Canadian Vet Medical Association).

Vets make a lot of money off vaccines plain and simple. If they are vaccinating yearly, it is for their benefit - not our pets.

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Consider this… One dose of rabies vaccine costs the vet about 61 cents. The client is typically charged between $15 and $38, plus a $35 office visit. The markup on the vaccine alone is 2,400 percent to 6,200 percent—a markup equivalent to charging $217 for a loaf of bread. According to one estimate, removing the one-year rabies vaccination and consequential office visit for dogs alone would decrease the average small vet’s income from $87,000 to $25,000—and this doesn’t include cats or other vaccinations.

According to James Schwartz, author of Trust Me, I’m Not a Veterinarian, 63 percent of canine and 70 percent of feline vet office visits are for vaccinations. Clearly, radically changing the vaccine schedule for dogs and cats would result in a huge economic loss for any veterinary practice that is built around shots. And chances are the vaccines you are paying so much for are creating even more income for vets, because the adverse reactions and other medical issues caused by the vaccines keep Fluffy coming back often!

Veterinary vaccine sales amounted to more than $3.2 million in 2004 and have risen 7 percent per year since 2000. This figure is projected to exceed $4 billion in 2009. Six companies account for more than 70percent of world veterinary vaccine sales. The market leader is Intervet, with sales of almost $600 million in 2004. That’s a whole lot of 61-cent vaccines. The United States has by far the largest share of the national market with revenues of $935 million, and Japan comes in second with $236 million.
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Old 10-12-2012, 08:28 AM   #11
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Wow! They definitely don't need any more vaccines. I'm obviously no vet, and you have to do what you feel is right. But yes you are way over-vaccinating.

AAHA hospitals are also in Canada. There is also a CVMA (Canadian Vet Medical Association).

Vets make a lot of money off vaccines plain and simple. If they are vaccinating yearly, it is for their benefit - not our pets.
Thanks for the information! We have thought for a long time that our vet really likes to run tests and do a lot of extra things that cost a lot of money. And we have lost a lot of trust with her because of many things that have been misdiagnosed with Layla. I can't blame her for Layla's paralysis, but she did tell us there was no use taking her to emergency when we first realized she had a problem (and she was still walking at that point), and to just keep her at home for the night and bring her in for a day of observation at her clinic the next day. Even after she lost use of her legs in the middle of the night, the vet wanted us to bring her back in the morning. I trusted her too much - she was sure it was something else. But I am pretty sure that Layla would still be walking today if I followed my gut instinct and had drove to the city in the middle of the night to take her in to emergency at the university vet hospital. This vet also misdiagnosed a bladder infection earlier this year, ran a variety of tests that cost almost triple what we later paid at the university when the infection was getting really serious.

Anyways, we had decided we'll take Layla to the university vet clinic for any of her care, and we'd just go to our local vet for vaccinations. I guess that is a money grab too!
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Old 10-12-2012, 08:33 AM   #12
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Oh and Layla is feeling much better today! She had a solid poop overnight My husband put a little bit of pumpkin on her breakfast this morning to make sure it's going to stay solid and she doesn't mess up my grandma's floors today!
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Old 10-12-2012, 12:08 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by linz06 View Post
Thanks for the information! We have thought for a long time that our vet really likes to run tests and do a lot of extra things that cost a lot of money. And we have lost a lot of trust with her because of many things that have been misdiagnosed with Layla. I can't blame her for Layla's paralysis, but she did tell us there was no use taking her to emergency when we first realized she had a problem (and she was still walking at that point), and to just keep her at home for the night and bring her in for a day of observation at her clinic the next day. Even after she lost use of her legs in the middle of the night, the vet wanted us to bring her back in the morning. I trusted her too much - she was sure it was something else. But I am pretty sure that Layla would still be walking today if I followed my gut instinct and had drove to the city in the middle of the night to take her in to emergency at the university vet hospital. This vet also misdiagnosed a bladder infection earlier this year, ran a variety of tests that cost almost triple what we later paid at the university when the infection was getting really serious.

Anyways, we had decided we'll take Layla to the university vet clinic for any of her care, and we'd just go to our local vet for vaccinations. I guess that is a money grab too!
Oh, man. It's always such a shame. You should be able to trust ALL vets but unfortunately you can't. I guess it's like doctors. There are really good ones and really bad ones and everything in between. Going with your gut is often best! I also had an experience that, looking back in hindsight, I am certain I was very much ripped off, but when your dog is sick and not feeling well... you just want to do what they tell you, and don't ask questions (at least that's how I was).

I still can't believe what happened to Layla - you guys are such awesome pet parents though! You've given her a CHANCE and an amazing life, and it sounds like she's doing pretty great otherwise.

I'm glad she's pretty much back to normal.
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Old 10-12-2012, 12:44 PM   #14
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Oh, man. It's always such a shame. You should be able to trust ALL vets but unfortunately you can't. I guess it's like doctors. There are really good ones and really bad ones and everything in between. Going with your gut is often best! I also had an experience that, looking back in hindsight, I am certain I was very much ripped off, but when your dog is sick and not feeling well... you just want to do what they tell you, and don't ask questions (at least that's how I was).

I still can't believe what happened to Layla - you guys are such awesome pet parents though! You've given her a CHANCE and an amazing life, and it sounds like she's doing pretty great otherwise.

I'm glad she's pretty much back to normal.
Thank you so much!!! Actually today a new guy at work asked how my dog was (I came in yesterday to grab my laptop so I could work from home, and I told him the reason). I said she is much better, but we had an awful night that first night being awake to clean up after her constantly. He asked if she was old. I said not that old, but she's paraplegic so she can't feel anything going on in her back end. I think he is the first person I've told who didn't laugh. Most people around here think it's pathetic Good thing she can't understand that!! And I don't listen to those people anyway!

What you said is exactly how I have felt too. I just want to trust whatever they say because they're the ones with the training, and they should know how to make my dog better. And a part of me feels uncomfortable telling them I don't agree.
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Old 10-13-2012, 03:43 AM   #15
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I'm glad that Layla is better now She's a special little girl!
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