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Old 01-12-2012, 08:31 AM   #1
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Question Important vaccines?Give or not to give?

For quite a while i've been thinking about limiting the numbers of vaccines that Hailey gets and what my vet recommends all the time.
For example, my vet recommends the Canine Influenza Vaccination Booster,Leptospirosis booster,Bordetella, DA2PP vaccination,Rabies(of course). Apart from the Rabies booster, do i really need all the others??
Which ones are the essential vaccines most of you YT owners give to your pooches?Thanks!!!
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Old 01-12-2012, 08:36 AM   #2
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I personally believe in VERY minimal vaccines.

In 2003, and again in 2006, The AAHA (American Animal Hospital Association) released its new recommendations for the Canine Vaccine Schedule. Unfortunately, all vets still do not follow these recommendations - so it is up to the pet's owner to be sure an appropriate and safe vaccine schedule is being followed.

CORE Vaccines for a canine (should be given to all dogs, unless a medical condition warrants otherwise):

*Distemper
*Hepatitis
*Parvovirus
*Rabies

NON-CORE Vaccines for a canine (should be given only when a dog has risk factors for the disease which exceed the risk of the vaccine):

*Corona
*Leptospirosis
*Lyme
*Bordatella
*Giardia
*Parainfluenza

Here's the rest of the vaccines overview on YT:
http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/yor...-overview.html

I really like Dr. Jean Dodds vaccine protocol.

As a pup, Jackson got DHPP at 8 weeks, DHLPP at 12 weeks (had a bad reaction to lepto, and won't ever get it again) and then DHPP at 16 weeks. Did not get his rabies vac until he was 6 months. Then he got the DHPP booster at 1 year, a few weeks later got the rabies booster. From here on out, he is only going to get rabies vaccine every 3 years per the law. He is due for his next rabies vaccine later this year when he turns 4. I will probably titer for the others to see their immunity levels.
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Old 01-12-2012, 09:05 AM   #3
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I refuse the Bordetella vaccine every time after a bad experience a friend had with it....that one scares me.
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Old 01-12-2012, 01:24 PM   #4
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I always do bordetella because I would rather prevent my dog from getting kennel cough instead of treating the kennel cough after its gotten. If Lepto is something that is in your area I would get the vaccine. My mom had an animal that died of Lepto so I make sure my dog has that. We also have a tick problem here so I make sure to get Callie the Lyme vaccine as well. I know lots of people worry about over vaccination but I also worry about my dog not being vaccinated against something she could be and ends up catching it and having to go through being sick and through treatment for it when for all we know it could hurt, the sickness and the treatment when they made a vaccine for it.
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Old 01-12-2012, 02:07 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovetodream88 View Post
I always do bordetella because I would rather prevent my dog from getting kennel cough instead of treating the kennel cough after its gotten. If Lepto is something that is in your area I would get the vaccine. My mom had an animal that died of Lepto so I make sure my dog has that. We also have a tick problem here so I make sure to get Callie the Lyme vaccine as well. I know lots of people worry about over vaccination but I also worry about my dog not being vaccinated against something she could be and ends up catching it and having to go through being sick and through treatment for it when for all we know it could hurt, the sickness and the treatment when they made a vaccine for it.
I do agree that it depends on your dogs lifestyle. But I still feel that over-vaccinating causes much more harm than good.

I've done bordatella because Jackson has had KC twice in his life and prefer not to deal with it. However it was super easy to treat, for us, and gone within a few days of antibiotics. So the bordatella is usually the only "non core" vaccine that I give, due to us constantly being at dog parks, pet stores, other dogs, etc.

Jackson tested positive for lymes after coming up limping, so he was actually showing symptoms. He was treated very easily and back to normal within a day of meds (that were not very expensive). His lyme test is now negative and I keep him on either advantix and frontline all year, which I feel is enough prevention. Our vet does not recommend the lymes vaccine for us, especially since people are trying to link the vaccine to possible kidney problems and sometimes even symptoms that make it look like they have Lyme's Disease.

I like this link: 01 Lyme Disease - VeterinaryPartner.com - a VIN company! and http://www.drschoen.com/articles_L1_11.html

But as far as DHPP... if a dog gets DHPP at 1 year old (or even their puppy vaccines) they are typically immune for life. Sometimes you may have to re-booster once in the dogs life but certainly not every year, or even every 3 years. I will most likely titer Jackson later this year to see how much adequate response he still has to the vaccines he received in the past... but there is no reason to believe that vaccinations do not last for the life of the dog. Duration of immunity studies are proving that to be true.

Quote:
The present study examines the DOI for core viral vaccines in dogs that had not been revaccinated for as long as 9 years. These animals had serum antibody to canine distemper virus (CDV), canine parvovirus type 2 (CPV-2) and canine adenovirus type-1 (CAV-1) at levels considered protective and when challenged with these viruses, the dogs resisted infection and/or disease. Thus, even a single dose of modified live virus (MLV) canine core vaccines (against CDV, cav-2 and cpv-2) or MLV feline core vaccines (against feline parvovirus [FPV], feline calicivirus [FCV] and feline herpesvirus [FHV]), when administered at 16 weeks or older, could provide long-term immunity in a very high percentage of animals, while also increasing herd immunity.
Age and long-term protective immunity in dogs ... [J Comp Pathol. 2010] - PubMed - NCBI

This is another good read:
Science of Vaccine Damage
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Old 01-13-2012, 11:50 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovetodream88 View Post
I always do bordetella because I would rather prevent my dog from getting kennel cough instead of treating the kennel cough after its gotten. If Lepto is something that is in your area I would get the vaccine. My mom had an animal that died of Lepto so I make sure my dog has that. We also have a tick problem here so I make sure to get Callie the Lyme vaccine as well. I know lots of people worry about over vaccination but I also worry about my dog not being vaccinated against something she could be and ends up catching it and having to go through being sick and through treatment for it when for all we know it could hurt, the sickness and the treatment when they made a vaccine for it.
I usually do Bordetella because i take Hailey to the groomer once every 2 months for hair trimming and most groomers require the vaccine to be up to date. As for the Lepto and Lyme vaccine, I will have to ask my vet and see if it's something that is in my area.
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Old 01-13-2012, 11:52 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Britster View Post
I do agree that it depends on your dogs lifestyle. But I still feel that over-vaccinating causes much more harm than good.

I've done bordatella because Jackson has had KC twice in his life and prefer not to deal with it. However it was super easy to treat, for us, and gone within a few days of antibiotics. So the bordatella is usually the only "non core" vaccine that I give, due to us constantly being at dog parks, pet stores, other dogs, etc.

Jackson tested positive for lymes after coming up limping, so he was actually showing symptoms. He was treated very easily and back to normal within a day of meds (that were not very expensive). His lyme test is now negative and I keep him on either advantix and frontline all year, which I feel is enough prevention. Our vet does not recommend the lymes vaccine for us, especially since people are trying to link the vaccine to possible kidney problems and sometimes even symptoms that make it look like they have Lyme's Disease.

I like this link: 01 Lyme Disease - VeterinaryPartner.com - a VIN company! and Dr. Schoen–Lyme Disease: Fact from Fiction

But as far as DHPP... if a dog gets DHPP at 1 year old (or even their puppy vaccines) they are typically immune for life. Sometimes you may have to re-booster once in the dogs life but certainly not every year, or even every 3 years. I will most likely titer Jackson later this year to see how much adequate response he still has to the vaccines he received in the past... but there is no reason to believe that vaccinations do not last for the life of the dog. Duration of immunity studies are proving that to be true.


Age and long-term protective immunity in dogs ... [J Comp Pathol. 2010] - PubMed - NCBI

This is another good read:
Science of Vaccine Damage
Thank you for the links!!!
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Old 01-13-2012, 12:04 PM   #8
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Ahh, see, I rarely bring my dogs where there are other dogs and that's why I haven't given him the vaccine for KC.

But as you said, it is fairly easy to treat and is about as bad as a cold in a person.

But, if he was around a lot of dogs, shown or kenneled I would probably do it.
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Old 01-13-2012, 12:17 PM   #9
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What about the Canine Influenza vaccine?Do your vets still recommend it? My vet started doing it last year and it was sort of "mandatory".
I was really against this vaccine and I didn't want to give it to Hailey but at the vet's office they said if i didn't do it I would not have been allowed in the hospital. I was not happy to say the least!
I don't know if it's still mandatory now but i will find out soon because Hailey is past due for it.
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Old 01-13-2012, 12:19 PM   #10
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I, personally, would definitely not to do the flu vaccine for a dog.
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Old 01-13-2012, 12:23 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yorkienewbie View Post
What about the Canine Influenza vaccine?Do your vets still recommend it? My vet started doing it last year and it was sort of "mandatory".
I was really against this vaccine and I didn't want to give it to Hailey but at the vet's office they said if i didn't do it I would not have been allowed in the hospital. I was not happy to say the least!
I don't know if it's still mandatory now but i will find out soon because Hailey is past due for it.

Funny, I just read an article about vet hospitals and kennels requiring certain vaccines that shouldn't be mandatory to save themselves from liability...oh I still have the tab open too.

Bordetella Vaccination for Dogs: Fraud and Fallacy
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Old 01-13-2012, 01:42 PM   #12
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I guess I'm guilty of over vaccinating, I guess. I get mine boosters every year including Lymes. They also get dewormed at least twice a year.

My dogs are very active and in contact with wildlife and other domestic animals on a regular basis.

My mom's bichon got kennel cough after a dental cleaning once a it almost killed him. He was given the kennel cough vaccine previously too. The vet required him to stay overnight after the cleaning. Since then if my pets need surgery or cleaning they stay with me til right before and then come home with me within hrs of the procedure. My current vet is great. Will put the into the dog/cats own carrier if you leave it so your animal can recover in something familiar to them.
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Old 01-13-2012, 01:54 PM   #13
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I guess I'm guilty of over vaccinating, I guess. I get mine boosters every year including Lymes. They also get dewormed at least twice a year.

My dogs are very active and in contact with wildlife and other domestic animals on a regular basis.

My mom's bichon got kennel cough after a dental cleaning once a it almost killed him. He was given the kennel cough vaccine previously too. The vet required him to stay overnight after the cleaning. Since then if my pets need surgery or cleaning they stay with me til right before and then come home with me within hrs of the procedure. My current vet is great. Will put the into the dog/cats own carrier if you leave it so your animal can recover in something familiar to them.
Has your vet suggested doing a titer's test for immunity? This can tell him if your dog has sufficient immunity. It's more costly than the vaccines, so that's why many vets don't suggest it, but I'd rather pay a little more and not give Joey any unnecessary protection.
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Old 01-13-2012, 02:08 PM   #14
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Has your vet suggested doing a titer's test for immunity? This can tell him if your dog has sufficient immunity. It's more costly than the vaccines, so that's why many vets don't suggest it, but I'd rather pay a little more and not give Joey any unnecessary protection.


Bordatella I can understand more, especially if your dogs are around other dogs a lot, dog parks, pet stores, etc. KC is a pain. But the tricky thing with bordatella is that it does not cover all strains of kennel cough, so a dog could still get it even with having the vaccine. So I don't know, I haven't decided if I'll do bordatella again.

But your dog is not ANY more protected getting vaccines every year than if they got them every 3 years for example. Because it's the SAME exact vaccine. There is no difference between "1 year" or "3 year" or whatever. So getting your dogs vaccinated every year is not protecting them in any way and all you are doing is adding unnecessary chemicals into their body year after year.

The thing is, a lot of vets don't want to give up that money they get from yearly vaccines. Let's face it - most dog owners wouldn't want to fork up the dough to get titers and a majority of people ONLY take their dogs to the vet when they need vaccines. It's a HUGE money maker for them. Of course a lot are going to continue recommending yearly. Now, an owner like me, I'll be at the vet at least once a year anyways for annual check-ups, bloodwork, etc so they'll still get their money from me. But an average owner... does not do this.

The latest scientific research proves that after the first course of injections as a puppy most dogs are immune against these diseases for at least seven years, if not for life. I don't see why anyone would think vaccinating every year is necessary in any shape or form.

Oh and Jackson is very active, always outside, in the woods, in the farmfields, playing with other dogs, at dog parks, in pet stores weekly, at the beach, etc, etc, and I still will not be vaccinating every year.
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Old 01-13-2012, 02:42 PM   #15
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Bordatella I can understand more, especially if your dogs are around other dogs a lot, dog parks, pet stores, etc. KC is a pain. But the tricky thing with bordatella is that it does not cover all strains of kennel cough, so a dog could still get it even with having the vaccine. So I don't know, I haven't decided if I'll do bordatella again.

But your dog is not ANY more protected getting vaccines every year than if they got them every 3 years for example. Because it's the SAME exact vaccine. There is no difference between "1 year" or "3 year" or whatever. So getting your dogs vaccinated every year is not protecting them in any way and all you are doing is adding unnecessary chemicals into their body year after year.

The thing is, a lot of vets don't want to give up that money they get from yearly vaccines. Let's face it - most dog owners wouldn't want to fork up the dough to get titers and a majority of people ONLY take their dogs to the vet when they need vaccines. It's a HUGE money maker for them. Of course a lot are going to continue recommending yearly. Now, an owner like me, I'll be at the vet at least once a year anyways for annual check-ups, bloodwork, etc so they'll still get their money from me. But an average owner... does not do this.

The latest scientific research proves that after the first course of injections as a puppy most dogs are immune against these diseases for at least seven years, if not for life. I don't see why anyone would think vaccinating every year is necessary in any shape or form.

Oh and Jackson is very active, always outside, in the woods, in the farmfields, playing with other dogs, at dog parks, in pet stores weekly, at the beach, etc, etc, and I still will not be vaccinating every year.
Yeah, I’m still up in the air about Bordetella, I can’t really go to some grooming places without it, and Joey gets his nails clipped at the groomers in between visits with his breeder.

I do think it’s unfair to suggest that vets give the vaccines because they are greedy and this is a huge part of their income. Wouldn’t they suggest titers if this were true? In my opinion, I think vets have a different perspective and see more obvious illness from not getting the vaccines rather than getting them, so they still believe that this is the safest thing to do for the majority of dogs. When there is indeed more proof that over vaccination is harmful and does indeed cause problems, vets will be more open to suggesting alternatives.
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