I need help!

[dwerten]

the chiari causes the syringomyelia see this link

Syringomyelia (SM) and the Cavalier King Charles Spaniel

[mly]

Originally Posted by dwerten

Aseptic Meningitis

no neck pain so not this

No fever either and her spinal tap came in normal.

[lillymae]

My girl did live a good long time with this condition and remained the same till about a month before she passed. So there is deff hope for Bella but I think the rite meds is what made Sassy live as long as she did. And the cost of foods is out of line here too. I paid $80.00 for 30 lbs of HD that didn't do the trick. that was 2 yrs ago and it's gone up since then. Not sure what they do at UC Davis but the only thing they did to Sassy was sedate her for the neuro and take the picks, not too hard to do on a sedated dog and he was rite there the whole time making sure they were taking pic from the rite angles. He had them look at the MRI to see if they would catch it but they didn't. I first heard about Chiari in humans about 9 yrs ago on a TV special and it was said that very few neuros know what to look for . And even fewer know how to surgically correct it. That is why I chose the teaching school because I think they are most up to date on things and it all worked out. However I am neurotic and did tell them I wanted the neuro to do the spinal tap. They will do what you want because you are paying the bill. Even when the Dr does everything the students still learn by watching.

[lillymae]

Originally Posted by dwerten

yeah i think same thing but your dog does not have itch and not screaming out in pain and not in pain to touch so i think yours is different than this and neuro is accurate either gme or ne

Heres what Sassy did. 1st early on the vomiting for no apparent reason and all blood work showed nothing, stool showed nothing. As quick as it came on it was gone. Total of 3 days in hospital can't remember for sure but I think 3 times. Then when she turned 5 I noticed when she would roll over she could not rite herself, like a turtle. Shortly after she started scratching at her ear. The vet could find nothing wrong. Then shortly after that she started cocking her head very slight hardly noticeable if you don't know what your looking for and stumbling that's when vet said she needs an MRI. And her spinal showed nothing too but the MRI showed the cyst and the base of her skull was more flat then round and that's the part that they don't often catch and is slightly diff then in humans.

[lillymae]

The vet at WSU said it is a deformaty so can vary from dog to dog as well as symptoms they don't always have all the same ones and some have certain ones and not others but they usually all show more then one of the symptoms. So if nothing else I would at least see if the neuro at UC Davis can take a look at her MRI . Another reason to always have copies. Doesn't have to mean the original reader of the MRI doesn't know what they are doing , just maybe missed something. They are only human .

[lillymae]

Oh , something else I had forgotten about. Sometime after diagnosis she did act like her neck was out and very painful. Vet said sometimes it happens but not always he gave pain meds and in about 4 or 5 days she was fine and that's the only time that happened. I have to tell you , I take my dogs to the Chiro but don't EVER take a dog with this condition to the Chiro. Sometimes it will have a domino effect and they will develope back problems and that can be treated by a Chiro but NEVER the neck when they have this condition.

[gigi9022]

Never knew you could do dogs at Chirapractor. Glad you gave us the tip on not taking dog with this problem.... Good to know just in case... Never know what the future holds ...
Jessie an Poohbear

[Mikey T]

Hi mly,

I'm new to the forum and haven't read all of the posts on Bella. I do hope she will be fine soon.

From what I read from your posts, it seems your regular vet is not really open to other possible diagnosis. And you mentioned that you hope the vet would give you the referral to neurologist when the vet suspected liver shunt. If you have any doubt as to what the vet would do (which should be whatever is best for Bella), I think it's time for a new vet.

I also have issues with the neurologist place that would not give you appointment until receipt of referral from your vet. That was outrageous. With you describing Bella's conditions and that she was progressing to having difficulty walking, it was possible that she could have intervertebral disc disease resulting in pinched spinal cord possibly causing paralysis if not treated in a timely manner. The neurologist office should know that in such cases, time is of the essence and should have given you appointment asap.

I do hope that you give up updates on Bella's condition soon and waiting anxiously for good news that the meds improved her condition. Thoughts and prayers with you and Bella.

Mia

[gigi9022]

ALWAYS question vets, I too am new and VERY MUCH AGREE with Mia...A VERY nice vet once KILLED my Toughie. He trusted me and she forgot to know geriatic dogs cannot take always take same meds as young ones can. Vets like Drs. to often forget they are only human and need to look things up instead of fly from the seat of their pants on ego.!! I aLWAYS QUESTION NOW and look up things myself. My Prayers are with you and Bella. Jessie

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by lillymae

My girl did live a good long time with this condition and remained the same till about a month before she passed. So there is deff hope for Bella but I think the rite meds is what made Sassy live as long as she did. And the cost of foods is out of line here too. I paid $80.00 for 30 lbs of HD that didn't do the trick. that was 2 yrs ago and it's gone up since then. Not sure what they do at UC Davis but the only thing they did to Sassy was sedate her for the neuro and take the picks, not too hard to do on a sedated dog and he was rite there the whole time making sure they were taking pic from the rite angles. He had them look at the MRI to see if they would catch it but they didn't. I first heard about Chiari in humans about 9 yrs ago on a TV special and it was said that very few neuros know what to look for . And even fewer know how to surgically correct it. That is why I chose the teaching school because I think they are most up to date on things and it all worked out. However I am neurotic and did tell them I wanted the neuro to do the spinal tap. They will do what you want because you are paying the bill. Even when the Dr does everything the students still learn by watching.

Yeah the spinal tap was my concern not the mri and they told me NO the student will do it and i said no way not for that price and posted here as spinal tap i would want done by a bc neurologist

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by lillymae

The vet at WSU said it is a deformaty so can vary from dog to dog as well as symptoms they don't always have all the same ones and some have certain ones and not others but they usually all show more then one of the symptoms. So if nothing else I would at least see if the neuro at UC Davis can take a look at her MRI . Another reason to always have copies. Doesn't have to mean the original reader of the MRI doesn't know what they are doing , just maybe missed something. They are only human .

this is true and would not be bad to pay for a consult but depends on how much as i think this neuro is good she went to but i personally did not like the attitude of the person answering the phone there at ucdavis she was a little rude and it always bothers me when front staff is rude to new customers and tend to go elsewhere. When i asked the price she told me 2500.00 then i asked if bc neurologist could do the procedure and she said no way the student does it with bc over seeing them and said thanks and posted. Now maybe she had a bad day as we all have them but when people are calling in about sick dogs you should have someone compassionate on the phone or at front desk. She was adimant there was no way bc neurologist would do this procedure it is a student and she was sarcastic saying this is a teaching hospital. I think each vet, teaching hospital etc are different and this one i have my question mark up about as my own vets friend's dog had internal liver shunt surgery on a boxer and it died and she felt horrible she referred the dog there and i have had a few other incidents that i have heard about there as well so I am not 100% confident with it to be honest

Now that being said i love our dentist and he came from there and he recommended below the person i posted but due to price being same as private practice no question in my mind private practice.

I go to a facility here where there are alot of interns and they are sharp and are very nice and helpful to me at night but a spinal tap not sure i would have them do that I will say they did know more than a 20 year vet to not give nsaids and steroids lollll

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by lillymae

Oh , something else I had forgotten about. Sometime after diagnosis she did act like her neck was out and very painful. Vet said sometimes it happens but not always he gave pain meds and in about 4 or 5 days she was fine and that's the only time that happened. I have to tell you , I take my dogs to the Chiro but don't EVER take a dog with this condition to the Chiro. Sometimes it will have a domino effect and they will develope back problems and that can be treated by a Chiro but NEVER the neck when they have this condition.

yeah i would never take a dog either to a chiro with this as aai is a bad condition too and my friend always says no chiro and that is in the neck region as well where they brace the neck - i have always myself been a little skeptical of chiros for humans as have seen where they have done damage so i prefer massage over chiro but dh swears by his

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by Mikey T

Hi mly,

I'm new to the forum and haven't read all of the posts on Bella. I do hope she will be fine soon.

From what I read from your posts, it seems your regular vet is not really open to other possible diagnosis. And you mentioned that you hope the vet would give you the referral to neurologist when the vet suspected liver shunt. If you have any doubt as to what the vet would do (which should be whatever is best for Bella), I think it's time for a new vet.

I also have issues with the neurologist place that would not give you appointment until receipt of referral from your vet. That was outrageous. With you describing Bella's conditions and that she was progressing to having difficulty walking, it was possible that she could have intervertebral disc disease resulting in pinched spinal cord possibly causing paralysis if not treated in a timely manner. The neurologist office should know that in such cases, time is of the essence and should have given you appointment asap.

I do hope that you give up updates on Bella's condition soon and waiting anxiously for good news that the meds improved her condition. Thoughts and prayers with you and Bella.

Mia

yeah some areas are unlike ours and will not do things without referrals thank goodness that is not the case where i live as i go without them all the time as the owner should have the right to go to whoever they want if they are paying - it also leads me to believe there may be kick backs in this profession as why be so adimant about referrals but that is a whole other topic lollll

[dwerten]

here is the reason i say kick backs for referrals because i did two dental consults with demi as first person i was not 100% confident with as she was talking bone packing and all kinds of crazy stuff quoting me 3k and i went to my personal dentist and she was like wth bone packing i hope you have another 10k in your pocket for this as bone packing does not work well in humans let alone dogs and this dentist wanted to put demi under every 6 mos and use stitches and all kinds of stuff - she freaked me out and glad i went to the one i go to now BUT what happened also with her is a called and receptionist said is this a direct consult or referral from vet and i said what is the cost of each and she said 50.00 direct 150.00 through vet and i said DIRECT as i found her and she was not referred by a vet. SO why the extra $100 - possibly a kick back for a referral to get her business going as she was new to area ???? Hate to think this way but after 25-30k in vet bills i am starting to ask ALOT OF QUESTIONS and EDUCATE myself because of all this stuff and pass on what i am learning

[mly]

Originally Posted by dwerten

here is the reason i say kick backs for referrals because i did two dental consults with demi as first person i was not 100% confident with as she was talking bone packing and all kinds of crazy stuff quoting me 3k and i went to my personal dentist and she was like wth bone packing i hope you have another 10k in your pocket for this as bone packing does not work well in humans let alone dogs and this dentist wanted to put demi under every 6 mos and use stitches and all kinds of stuff - she freaked me out and glad i went to the one i go to now BUT what happened also with her is a called and receptionist said is this a direct consult or referral from vet and i said what is the cost of each and she said 50.00 direct 150.00 through vet and i said DIRECT as i found her and she was not referred by a vet. SO why the extra $100 - possibly a kick back for a referral to get her business going as she was new to area ???? Hate to think this way but after 25-30k in vet bills i am starting to ask ALOT OF QUESTIONS and EDUCATE myself because of all this stuff and pass on what i am learning

I think that could be correct. Dr's offices would probably get compensation for the referrals they make elsewhere. I remember my vet recommending me to take Bella to the place in Santa Rosa before to get her trachea checked out and that was the same place she recommended me for the neuro. I don't know if it was because it really is the closest place to where I live or if they do really get something from recommending people. Another thing was, she was insisting I take her to internal med (not neuro) because she thought her head tilt could be a result of her liver since she had elevated bile acids and sometimes liver shunts can result in neuro problems.

I actually told my vet I found a neuro and I would to be refer there but she said that she had called the place I wanted to go to and they weren't internal med, just neuro so we wrote me a referral to the place she had recommended. I took the referral form and called the neuro I wanted to go to and just told him I was refer somewhere else and have a referral form with me but it wasn't for them. He said ok and schedule me anyways. I think they just need to know if it was really necessary to see a neuro or not because they never requested my referral form once I got there.

The other places I called wouldn't schedule me in until the referral form was faxed or something. With that alone, I rather not go there.