Unbiased Advice Needed

[MindieRose]

If there is one thing that I have no sympathy for, it's people who play the victim card. And it sounds like her family has handed her an entire deck of them! You said that her dependancy on drugs and alcohol caused her to have an affair with a married man, but she made that choice to start drinking and using, and even though it impared her judgement, God has promised that we will never be put in a moral situation that we cannot get out of, so she is still accountable for that. Drugs and alcohol cannot control you unless you let them. At some point a conscoius decision was made. Believe me, I have had my world crash down on me several times in my life (as a young child and adult), moreso than most people that are addicts, and not once have I allowed myself to go down that road. This society anymore loves to make people feel like nothing is their fault and that they are victims. Do not allow her to be the victim anymore. She can be a conquerer if she chooses! We all can! You can be there for her without turning your life upside down. Most of all, you can pray pray pray for her. Only her and God can change her heart and her mentality. It doesn't sound to me like she has really made a change. It also doesn't sound to me like her family are the best people to have around her. The real victim in this is that unborn baby. I pray that she wakes up before the baby comes.
Blessings to you for being such a faithful friend to her. I pray that you receive wisdom along the way too, so that you can help her through all of this without letting her manipulate you.

[Darlin Beauxs]

Originally Posted by MindieRose

If there is one thing that I have no sympathy for, it's people who play the victim card. And it sounds like her family has handed her an entire deck of them! You said that her dependancy on drugs and alcohol caused her to have an affair with a married man, but she made that choice to start drinking and using, and even though it impared her judgement, God has promised that we will never be put in a moral situation that we cannot get out of, so she is still accountable for that. Drugs and alcohol cannot control you unless you let them. At some point a conscoius decision was made. Believe me, I have had my world crash down on me several times in my life (as a young child and adult), moreso than most people that are addicts, and not once have I allowed myself to go down that road. This society anymore loves to make people feel like nothing is their fault and that they are victims. Do not allow her to be the victim anymore. She can be a conquerer if she chooses! We all can! You can be there for her without turning your life upside down. Most of all, you can pray pray pray for her. Only her and God can change her heart and her mentality. It doesn't sound to me like she has really made a change. It also doesn't sound to me like her family are the best people to have around her. The real victim in this is that unborn baby. I pray that she wakes up before the baby comes.
Blessings to you for being such a faithful friend to her. I pray that you receive wisdom along the way too, so that you can help her through all of this without letting her manipulate you.

Yes,
I have had to hear that she drank and used drugs because she was depressed, because her Mom made her give her first child up for adoption. She was 19, her parents chose not to help her, and she had no other place to live. They took her to a Baptist Home for unwed mothers, and dropped her off. They told her she could come back--alone.

I heard she messed w a married man because she had no self esteem (she is 6'2" and very beautiful when she cares about her looks)

Her sister is in nursing school, she is a good person, but she acted in the best interest of her MOM, not her sister, by misusing the money.

Her Mom was/is an addict herself-she readily admits she laces her coffee with meth every morning, to get her thru the day. I told the rehab this, but they still allow her Mom to visit

[MindieRose]

geez louise....sounds like she's full of excuses. She will not get better untils he gets out of denial and allows herself to admit that she got herself into her own mess. Her family did a number on her, I believe that, but no one can mess up your life unless you allow them to. That is a terrible thing that her parents did to her, and I am sure she has a lot of unresolved feelings about that. My mother in law lost her 4th child. Her uterus ruptured during labor. She did not deal with that pain for over 25 years, until she was in AA. Once you can heal from that pain, you can then realize that you cannot allow yourself to use that as a crutch any longer.
I sure hope that she can start healing so that this cycle does not keep going with this child.

[Darlin Beauxs]

Yes, she is FULL of excuses. I know it is a small thing to some, but her walking out of my neighbors home was the last straw for me. I had asked them would it be ok if she came too, since she would be visiting.

Out of consideration for her, they completely packed up their bottles from their bar, and took all of the beer out of the glass-door cooler in the garage. Because they thought it might make her feel uneasy. I didn't ask them to do this, that is just the type of people they are.

She says she was "just tired and grouchy" and didn't "feel" like it. How many things are we forced to endure that we don't feel up to-because we respect someone elses feelings? This, or just being "depressed" is her excuse for anything and everything.

[MindieRose]

Originally Posted by Darlin Beauxs

Yes, she is FULL of excuses. I know it is a small thing to some, but her walking out of my neighbors home was the last straw for me. I had asked them would it be ok if she came too, since she would be visiting.

Out of consideration for her, they completely packed up their bottles from their bar, and took all of the beer out of the glass-door cooler in the garage. Because they thought it might make her feel uneasy. I didn't ask them to do this, that is just the type of people they are.

She says she was "just tired and grouchy" and didn't "feel" like it. How many things are we forced to endure that we don't feel up to-because we respect someone elses feelings? This, or just being "depressed" is her excuse for anything and everything.

It sounds like you have some very nice and considerate neighbors, I don't blame you for being embarassed and upset. Some people just always expect everyone to cater to them and do not have any tact or common sense when it comes to their behavior around others. I know a few people like that.
Sometimes people need a little "tough love" to wake up to reality.

[Darlin Beauxs]

Mindie, they are really good people. They are from out of state, and just have the one child. We don't have any kids, and we really enjoy her daughter. Her daughter asked us to come to her party, not knowing her Mom had already asked us, she wanted my big hubby watching the dance floor

Her Mother has had a change of heart. This is the e-mail I just received, I blanked out the names, other than ours (but notice she wants ME to make an appt for her):

Amy-No, I do not think you are a monster! I think you and Jimmy have done for ****far and beyond what she would have done for you or me or ****. She has proved that to all of us. Tuff Love is not EZ. You are right that she needs to sit and realize what she has done to herself, not what she thinks we do not do for her. She does not want us talking or comparing notes, if she did not want to work us against each other she would have never said that. So yes, she is still trying to control us instead of herself. From what I can tell her neurotransmitters are not hitting properly yet, her thinking is still messed up. That is something that just takes time and therapy.

Does she get professional counseling?

I agree that everything you and Jimmy have done up to this point has been in the best interest for ****, she is ill and has brought this illness on herself. She will have to fight hard to become well and I don’t know if she herself realizes that, but I do. I do not feel she is a throw away person yet and only time will tell. I would like to have a one on one visit with her counselor to ask question, but that would need to be on a Sunday. Can you find out for me?

Love you (yall) Thankx for all you have done,

[mblab]

I am so sorry for everything you have been and continue to go through. Addiction is one of the hardest things, it not only affects the person (and in her case her unborn child) but it really affects everyone around them too!

From skimming over this thread I had a few thoughts. First of all, you've done a great job doing everything you can and do what you think is best for her. She is VERY lucky to have you in her life. Many people with addiction problems aren't that lucky and have no one for support. That said it does seem apparent that you're at your whits end, that she doesn't seem to appreciate what it is you are doing, and there seems to be an endless cycle of bad going on.

The rehab that she's in, it's wonderful that it's long term and free. Unfortunately it may not be meeting her basic needs. What makes this a rehab? Just basic rules that she can't use? In reality she needs SERIOUS therapy (be it individual, group, or specific types like cognitive behavioral therapy, etc.).

Before I say anything else I just wanted you to know I'm in social work. While I haven't specialized in Addiction I have had some exposure/education about it and peers that are in this field. So while I'm not an expert I do have some minor background knowledge on this.

The most important, yet hardest, thing to keep in mind with addiction is that a person will only change when they decide to. I know of people that have hit what everyone else sees as rock bottom (loss of job, house, family, etc.) yet they have not viewed this as enough of a loss to do anything different or want to change. Whatever it takes for a person to decide to change their ways is what's needed, it's not the same for everyone. Additionally, when you keep that in mind, a person in rehab because someone else made them or strongly encouraged them has a really high failure rate. (Could be court related or just pressure from family/friends.) Keep in mind many people go through several stints of rehab, and only when they decide to change themselves will they actually have success. (That and relapse is expected as it is part of the recovery process.) Addiction is seen as a brain disease. While it gets old fast to people around them, it is something that takes a lot to change the cycle and become healthy.

If she is in a good rehab facility she'll get the help she needs (if she's willing to take it and work hard on changing things). That would include working on eventually fixing social issues. Hypothetically a great facility would be a one stop shop where when a person completes their program they could then go on and try to mend things in the oustide world. That said, if this is not a great facility she could be lacking some of the help she really needs. (Also keep in mind many persons that deal with addiction/dependency have a dual diagnosis, which means they also suffer from something else--Depression or some other mental disorder.)

It may be essential to make sure this is the right facility for her. If it is then it may just be appropriate for you to turn over your responsibilities to this facility. They should be better equipped to handle such a situation. Clearly though if this facility isn't all it should be then that wouldn't be a good idea.

That's all I've got for now. But hopefully that was of some help. Truly this is a difficult situation no matter how you spin it or what you do. Know that you've done what you feel is right and she's lucky to have someone that cares that much in her life. But it would be of use to consult a professional, someone who works in the addiction field. They can assist you in the issues you're having and in helping you figure out what's best for your friend.

-Vicky

P.S. While I was working for the Florida Governor's Office of Drug Control I came across this pamphlet, which is really great. Addiction: "Drugs, Brains, and Behavior - The Science of Addiction"

[Darlin Beauxs]

Vicky,

Thanks for taking the time to type out such a thoughtful response. Some of the issues you brought up are ones that I have worried about in secret.

I "freaked out" when she tried to kill herself. I know some people aren't religious, but I had this voice that spoke to me, very calm, and it said "get her help, now. Don't allow her to return to her home, not even for a minute". A month after she was there, we discovered she was pregnant. I don't think any of this is coincidence.

Yes, she was forced in to rehab. I took the power of attorney there, and me, her sister, and her mother, sat down with the case worker, and I explained to her she had no alternative-remember the Dr. agreed to keep her there. As pitiful as it may sound, she said she would have agreed to do anything because she had already been in the psych ward for a week w no smokes. We told her that if she walked out of the rehab (which she has done before) no one would be giving her a place to stay.

The man she was involved with has made NO attempts to contact her, and rumor has it he is seeing someone else. She has no outlet.

The rehab is christian based, and they just opened a home for mothers and children. Almost all the ladies there that I can think of are court mandated, except for one other.

We come from a small rural town, and we are as middle class as they come. She is with some really rough criminal girls. I think it has been a shock for her in that aspect.

I don't know if any of the counselors there are accredited. I do know they have a child psychologist who sees the children, and a licensed dietician. I would say about 90% of the employees there are former residents in the program.

I wanted no part of the money situation to begin with, but stepped in when I realized she would have NOTHING if I didn't. I was going to turn the money over to the rehab, but she says that other client's who have been there say that servicing fees were deducted from their funds (like jail), and they were strongly encouraged to donate to programs the rehab has going on. I don't know how to ask about this. They have a reputation in the community for being cult-like, but I have attended their church, and support meetings, and I agree with almost EVERYTHING they say.

She works a 20 hr per week job in their daycare for them, and they deduct 20% of her check for meals and lodging (I think this is acceptable)

[mblab]

Originally Posted by Darlin Beauxs

Vicky,

Thanks for taking the time to type out such a thoughtful response. Some of the issues you brought up are ones that I have worried about in secret.

Addiction is so hard, not just for the obvious but for EVERYTHING that's involved. You should be so proud for being as strong as you've been! None of it is easy, even in the best situation.

I "freaked out" when she tried to kill herself. I know some people aren't religious, but I had this voice that spoke to me, very calm, and it said "get her help, now. Don't allow her to return to her home, not even for a minute". A month after she was there, we discovered she was pregnant. I don't think any of this is coincidence.

Yes, she was forced in to rehab. I took the power of attorney there, and me, her sister, and her mother, sat down with the case worker, and I explained to her she had no alternative-remember the Dr. agreed to keep her there. As pitiful as it may sound, she said she would have agreed to do anything because she had already been in the psych ward for a week w no smokes. We told her that if she walked out of the rehab (which she has done before) no one would be giving her a place to stay.

In her situation it does seem like a really good thing that she was removed from such a bad situation!

The rehab is christian based, and they just opened a home for mothers and children. Almost all the ladies there that I can think of are court mandated, except for one other.

Faith based programs can be really effective, that in itself shouldn't influence the quality of the program. The status of the other ladies might not influence her, but her being a forced client does matter. While she may have been willing, as the doctor suggested when you met him, to have signed up since she was going through withdrawals she is still there on a forced basis.

We come from a small rural town, and we are as middle class as they come. She is with some really rough criminal girls. I think it has been a shock for her in that aspect.

For such an area you're lucky any program like this exists! I'm in a somewhat large-medium sized town and we don't even have some of the really needed programs locally. Sometimes people can learn from being "scared straight", from seeing how severe the other ladies are. You said she feels better than everyone else in the program, but if she sees any shared ground between them (which means she's have to have insight in order to realize this) then she might gain something from it. Also know that court ordered facilities are really different from volunteer (a person goes of their own free will) tend to differ, and sometimes the court ordered facilities are harsher (less funding) and they sometimes take a harsher take on the residents.

I don't know if any of the counselors there are accredited. I do know they have a child psychologist who sees the children, and a licensed dietician. I would say about 90% of the employees there are former residents in the program.

To be an "accredited" counselor you need to have a degree in Social Work, Psychology, and a few other fields (that include topics of mental health, general counseling, and/or addictions). There are licensures that a person can have, but they're not always necessary. If the people in the program have no education in those fields (with a supervisor having at least masters degree in one of those fields) than it's not a "real" rehab. Anyone (especially something that's faith based) can open their doors, talk about "don't do drugs", but none of their practices are based on research. There's something called "evidence based practice" which means that what they're doing has been research and found to be effective and is considered by the field to be an appropriate technique.

And you do find that a lot of people that work in this field have suffered from an addiction themselves. It can be a really effective thing, seeing first hand that you can change and improve your situation.

Also, that's great that there's someone that works with the children, that's really important! It's also really important for the client to get counseling too though!

I wanted no part of the money situation to begin with, but stepped in when I realized she would have NOTHING if I didn't. I was going to turn the money over to the rehab, but she says that other client's who have been there say that servicing fees were deducted from their funds (like jail), and they were strongly encouraged to donate to programs the rehab has going on. I don't know how to ask about this. They have a reputation in the community for being cult-like, but I have attended their church, and support meetings, and I agree with almost EVERYTHING they say.

She works a 20 hr per week job in their daycare for them, and they deduct 20% of her check for meals and lodging (I think this is acceptable)

Money, in any situation, is always difficult and complicated. In this situation, it may just be better for the facility to handle her money. If nothing else she'd be in control of what's going on and she can't blame any one else (even if the church takes out money or convinces her to give them money). There are people/places that can give some help, funding wise, to people that are struggling (such as someone that's just finished rehab). Maybe she should give the church the authority to handle her money and even though they'll take a lot of it, it will have been her responsibility. And when she's sober and well enough to be on her own she can try to improve her situation (especially if she's working and making money!).

My biggest fear is that your friend isn't going to gain one bit from this experience. And if she doesn't it's no one's fault but her own (and the facility's if they're not an effective facility). You can work with someone to improve their situation but in the end you can only go as far as the person wants to go. If she truly wants to continue her addictions she will. If she wants to isolate herself/surround herself with "bad" people she will. As tough as it is there's only so much you can do, it's up to her.

I can't tell you how many ladies have told me their stories, detailing 3, 4, 6, 7 previous experiences in rehab. All said that those previous experiences they really didn't want to change so it did nothing for them. (I worked in a residential treatment facility for women with addictions, and they did have very limited space for women with children, that also allowed part time work; however it was not faith based.)

Bottom line, from what little I know, I'm afraid this program is more a church helping support ladies get over addiction and not a rehab or treatment facility. With your friend being a resistant client (not being there on her own) that makes a really tough scenario for a good outcome. That said there are people that use religion as a healing thing and can overcome the harshest of problems, but that's almost a fluke. It takes a lot of help (from the person and people around them) to make a change. Just be aware of the situation she's in and do what you feel is best for her AND you!

-Vicky

[Darlin Beauxs]

Quick update: My friend's mother went to visit her today. friend told her that I "snapped" on her for no reason, and took her back to the rehab an hour early, dumped her stuff on the curb..and drove off before making sure she got in ok. Not true.

Her mom texted me about how well the visit went, what a good mood she was in, how much she changed, etc. I told her ANYONE can put on a good show for only a few hours.

No offer of an apology was sent.