Brush Creek Kennel Investigation

[dobiedude]

[QUOTE=Timmy;933449]

Originally Posted by MsCheryle478

You are absolutely right!! Timmy came from a broker (puppy mill) took him to the vet the following day I got him. Vet said he's in perfect health. Few days later the loose stool and he had coccidia. Then 1 month later he wasn't eating and rapidly losing weight.. took him to the vet they had to start IV's on him right away. He's doing fine now but I spent so much money during the first 2 months of having him.

Now if the vet said he was in perfect health how can that be anyones fault? Why was he losing weight? From the coccidia? If so why did you not get him rechecked sooner? Just does not make sense to me.

[dobiedude]

Originally Posted by Buddah<3r

A freind of my parents breeds small dogs. If she had yorkies I would have gotten one from here but she doesn't.

I have seen her help so many people with vet bills, taking dogs back, ect. even when it wasnt her fault. Because for her is really isnt about the money. She does it because she loves little dogs. And she wants to enhance the breed. She has about 12 that belong to her alone. And she is always keeping in touch with those that buy from her.

So I think if you have that mind set, you do know how you will react because it is about your love for the puppy and the families you place them in.

Besides that she is VERY picky about who takes home a puppy. The person must visit with her atleast 2 times before she makes a decision about placing the dog with them; so I can see how she is more apt to help people when they need it.

She feels she knows them.

You are right that you cannot please all people, but you dont have to sell puppies to those people. Being in the business I'm in I can say with confidence that you WILL know who these people are from the get go. So dont sell to them!

True very true. But you can't read all people like books and it does happen when you sell to "That Buyer" if you know what I mean

[SweetCuteness]

Originally Posted by CO_yorkie_momma

If it were only four or five days then I would see what their vet said and if we are in agreement that the puppy was sick before it left or it died of causes because of my neglect or my lines being bad of course I would do the right thing. You have to look at each individual case, but if I had several people all of a sudden with my puppies sick and dying then I would think that is my fault and stop breeding the parents and all of them would get their money back because I dont have several litters to choose from for replacements. I wouldnt be able to sleep at night until I made it right where we both walked away satisfied.

This is because you're a kind person with a conscience. You own up to your end of the deal. Personally, if I were a breeder, I would do the same. That's the deal, things go wrong - breeding may end up costing you $$ instead of earning you $$, but at the end of the day, at least you know you did the right thing for the customer. As long as it's an absolute rarity that things do go wrong and puppies get sick. If it's more than 1 per year or even longer - I bet you would look at your breeding program to see what was going on and you wouldn't continue to have complaints of sick/dead puppies.

So... huge kudos to you for being a good person and doing the right thing!!

[Buddah<3r]

Originally Posted by dobiedude

True very true. But you can't read all people like books and it does happen when you sell to "That Buyer" if you know what I mean

True you cannot ALWAYS tell, but I think multiple interviews and waiting periods can help to draw out some of that "bad behavior" Most people like that are not going to "waste their time" and will just go buy from someone who isnt as concerned with them, their life style, ect.

These are living beings, they aren't accessories. You wouldnt place a child in a home because they are the highest bidder. And I'm sure you would want to know a little more about them then you learn in a 15 min visit. I think everyone in the doggie business should really think about that and adjust the adoption process. Yes they are paying for the pup, but we want them to go to loving homes and have a successful life.

[SweetCuteness]

Originally Posted by dobiedude

True very true. But you can't read all people like books and it does happen when you sell to "That Buyer" if you know what I mean

You're right, there is always "that one buyer" that will try to rip off the seller - in any industry. But can you honestly say to yourself that you think alllll of these people are "that buyer" that is trying to rip off Brushy Creek.

PS - I also have to give you credit - the farting the crow feathers comment was very funny. Sorry for the delayed response - I was out of town this weekend and am just catching up.

[CO_yorkie_momma]

Originally Posted by dobiedude

Ok fair enough but like I said no vet check was performed. I know a large percentage of people do not take their new puppies to the vet within the required two days. So like I said no vet check so you do not know what caused it. So don't you think it would be hard for you to give another puppy or give the money back? I know this seems a little off course here but its just a point I am trying to make.
I agree you have to look at each individual case and it appears by the volume of dogs sold there may be more than a few cases each year. As I have been reading this post it appears this has all happened some time ago. I have only read one recent account on here of a shiz sue being sick so who knows.

If they dont go in for the initial vet check like it states, then I guess they arent protecting their own rights. That is why I have the contract, to protect me from those that dont follow throught with their end of the deal. Yes there are going to be things that pop up that you or the vet didnt know about and that is a fine line there as to where the fault may lie. Maybe it would be a great thread to start and see what breeders and buyers opinions are and how they handled it when it happened to them. I am new to this and want to learn and what better place to do it than here. Good points!!!!

[Timmy]

[QUOTE=dobiedude;933476]

Originally Posted by Timmy

Now if the vet said he was in perfect health how can that be anyones fault? Why was he losing weight? From the coccidia? If so why did you not get him rechecked sooner? Just does not make sense to me.

I never said I waited to take him to the vet. A week after I got him was when his stool was loose I immediately took him to see a vet once again. As a matter of fact I went to another vet because my vet couldn't see him that day. He was on meds and he was better. I took him for a re-check and they took another stool sample and that came back okay. Then 1 month later he started to get sick again and thats when they had to put him on IV's...1 hr after the IV my boy was his normal self again. We had stool samples done which came back okay. Never knew what was the cause of him rapidly losing weight, not eating or drinking. I even had x-rays done just to make sure he didn't swallow something he wasn't suppose to and that came back clear. As soon as any of them get sick they go to the vet that same day. I never got any support from the person I bought him from so I know what everyone else is going through. The point here is why Mr. Moore is not getting back to these ppl. Yes I understand that not every puppy is going to be healthy but at least have some kind of concern. What it comes down to is that he doesn't care about the puppies...its all about $$$$$$$$$$$$.

IT IS WHAT IT IS! $$$$$$$$$

[MsCheryle478]

[QUOTE=dobiedude;933468]

Originally Posted by MsCheryle478

My point is no one knows if the dog is sick like you said even the vet didn't know so how is the person who sold it going to know?

Again, I will have to disagree. I breed my Germ. Shep. I had a litter at the beg. of spring last year. I raise my pups underfoot. I know if they are eating good, if their stools like right, if they are playful like they should be, etc. My pups came down with worms. I knew it within a few days and they were all treated and cleared before any went to new homes. A few years back I had a pup that I noticed wasn't growing the same as the others. After some tests it was revealed she had a heart defect. Now if I didn't care I could have sold her as the runt. She didn't pass away until she was almost 6 mos. so I could have then blamed the new owner. I care about my pups as much as the parents.
And to finalize, someone who breeds so many different dogs they have to hire help. Well, I am just speechless on that one.

[Bdmcs324]

Originally Posted by dobiedude

No it was not sick and insensitive it was real too bad you can't see that. Have you ever been in the country? Have you ever seen coyotes hung from the fence? And what if children were too see the dog what do you think it would do to them? Did it hurt their feelings? No it is reality. As a responsible pet owner you should insure your pet is properly cared for and contained.
But I do not expect you to understand.

But people hang coyotes on the fence to keep other coyotes from coming on the property .... which doesn't even work .. learned in a Wildlife Ecology class.. and you hung the dog on the fence to learn who the owner is right???? IS that really the only way for you to get in contact with the owner?? I doubt it ... I mean maybe it was in a fit of rage that you did it .. all i know is it was insensitive and inhumane.......

[SweetCuteness]

Originally Posted by Bdmcs324

But people hang coyotes on the fence to keep other coyotes from coming on the property .... which doesn't even work .. learned in a Wildlife Ecology class.. and you hung the dog on the fence to learn who the owner is right???? IS that really the only way for you to get in contact with the owner?? I doubt it ... I mean maybe it was in a fit of rage that you did it .. all i know is it was insensitive and inhumane.......

I personally would have been horrified to see this. And as a child, it could scar you for the rest of your life. Children love dogs - to see something they love dead, bleeding, and hanging on a fence would be extremely traumatizing. Even as an adult, if one of my dogs was dead, bleeding, and hanging on a fence I would be very traumatized. The whole story sounds like a horror movie.

Shooting the dog for killing the llamas I could understand - but the rest???? Not so much.

[dobiedude]

Originally Posted by CO_yorkie_momma

If they dont go in for the initial vet check like it states, then I guess they arent protecting their own rights. That is why I have the contract, to protect me from those that dont follow throught with their end of the deal. Yes there are going to be things that pop up that you or the vet didnt know about and that is a fine line there as to where the fault may lie. Maybe it would be a great thread to start and see what breeders and buyers opinions are and how they handled it when it happened to them. I am new to this and want to learn and what better place to do it than here. Good points!!!!

Yup I agree it would help everyone in the long run. That way both parties know what is really expected and you don't have the miscommunication that seem to occur. People can only try their best. I just wanted to show there is always the other side and if people work together most of the time it will get resolved. But alas people get upset and things turn ugly and its a lose lose situation.

[Buddah<3r]

Originally Posted by dobiedude

Yup I agree it would help everyone in the long run. That way both parties know what is really expected and you don't have the miscommunication that seem to occur. People can only try their best. I just wanted to show there is always the other side and if people work together most of the time it will get resolved. But alas people get upset and things turn ugly and its a lose lose situation.

I agree IF people work together. How are the unhappy customers supposed to work WITH Mr. Moore if he wont answer their phone calls?

[dobiedude]

[QUOTE=Timmy;933513]

Originally Posted by dobiedude

I never said I waited to take him to the vet. A week after I got him was when his stool was loose I immediately took him to see a vet once again. As a matter of fact I went to another vet because my vet couldn't see him that day. He was on meds and he was better. I took him for a re-check and they took another stool sample and that came back okay. Then 1 month later he started to get sick again and thats when they had to put him on IV's...1 hr after the IV my boy was his normal self again. We had stool samples done which came back okay. Never knew what was the cause of him rapidly losing weight, not eating or drinking. I even had x-rays done just to make sure he didn't swallow something he wasn't suppose to and that came back clear. As soon as any of them get sick they go to the vet that same day. I never got any support from the person I bought him from so I know what everyone else is going through. The point here is why Mr. Moore is not getting back to these ppl. Yes I understand that not every puppy is going to be healthy but at least have some kind of concern. What it comes down to is that he doesn't care about the puppies...its all about $$$$$$$$$$$$.

IT IS WHAT IT IS! $$$$$$$$$

I see what your saying but you have to admit no one could have predicted the problems you had. It appears no one could explain it, its not anyone's fault it just happened. Another question though what could the person you bought the dog from do that you already didn't do? You did the right thing by not waiting and being proactive.

[dobiedude]

Originally Posted by Bdmcs324

But people hang coyotes on the fence to keep other coyotes from coming on the property .... which doesn't even work .. learned in a Wildlife Ecology class.. and you hung the dog on the fence to learn who the owner is right???? IS that really the only way for you to get in contact with the owner?? I doubt it ... I mean maybe it was in a fit of rage that you did it .. all i know is it was insensitive and inhumane.......

Hence the reason I hung the dog keep the people off my property and find the owner (your right the coyote on the fence does not work and neither does the boots on the fence)
I know for a fact that the person would not come forward.
His friends who came down and claimed the dog stated that he wouldn't do it because he knew it would cost him money. I would have challenged you to come and find the person as a matter of fact the person who shot them in the head is still at large so please come and investigate with your super skills.
How was it inhumane? The dog didn't suffer like my llama did. Now that was inhumane.

[dobiedude]

Originally Posted by Buddah<3r

I agree IF people work together. How are the unhappy customers supposed to work WITH Mr. Moore if he wont answer their phone calls?

As I read they called he answered and they called each other names and then the phone was hung up. (I think it said that from a latter post) if that was the case it does no good for anyone.