Brush Creek Kennel Investigation

[dobiedude]

Originally Posted by MissLola

I have to respect the fact that Mr. Moore came to tell his side of the story, as well as those who have had good experiences with the kennel. But he has yet to address all the complaints about sick puppies, unanswered calls, vet bills, ripoff reports, etc. I know puppies can get sick, like any living thing, but it seems to happen way to often in this case, as with all puppy mills. If they keep the kennel as clean as they say, great. But there's still a problem if all these sick puppies are leaving the place, and I just can't believe they all got sick after going home.

I commend that too and I commend all the nice people here who listen to what is being said instead of attacking people for asking questions and talking. I don't know about you questions but I do know that the ripoff reports and the people here seem to be the same folks IMO. That is why I asked a couple of questions too. I do know when we brought our puppy home from a small breeder she did have kennel cough and they had coccidia. My vet told me this is pretty normal when you buy a pup from a breeder. My vet told me if we were to buy a puppy again we should treat it with Albon or corid to be on the safe side. Just my experience.

[CO_yorkie_momma]

Originally Posted by dobiedude

I have read the posts at Rip Off Report and all the post here it seems to me like we are talking about 4 or 5 people so far that have had a bad experience is that a fair thing to say? If its not please let me see the others. Like you said above "there are people out there that you just cant please no matter how hard you try". I believe Mr. Moore said he has hundreds of sales a year? if that is so then that is a very low amount in my opinion. I do not know how the transactions took place and neither does anyone else on this site except for the people involved. I read that Woofsheapard said he/she had a lawyer involved? What was the outcome? That is another piece of the puzzle.

You are right, that is the only people on this site that have complained but according to Fox News there are many more. Lets look at it this way. If there were only say 6-10 dogs that got sick and died, then why not do everything to make it right and refund the money or do what you have to do to keep the people happy? I am sure that would have cost alot less than all of this bad publicity has cost him. With all of the dogs he sells he could afford to do that. If you can afford to fly all over the world to export dogs then you can afford to replace a few sick ones. He doesnt know if these dogs are sick before he hauls them back here and he dang sure doesnt know if the puppies are coming from lines with no genetic health defects either. He doesnt care, he just wants to make a buck off of them.

Also when people come to my house to see puppies they are interested in purchasing, you can bet all of my dogs are well groom and the puppies are clean and smell good. Why would a person bring out a poop covered dog to show to a potential buyer and tell them sorry we didnt have time to give it a bath? That right there tells you they arent getting bathed and cared for very well if they dont even have time to do it for the new customers. I am not trying to jump all over you, jsut trying to get you to see what everyone else sees.

[JiggityJig]

You are right, that is the only people on this site that have complained but according to Fox News there are many more.

Right. I don't know why that's so difficult to see. Yorkies are just ONE of the many breeds they sell. Many people aren't the types to file lawsuits, post on message boards, or otherwise complain on the internet. Doesn't mean they're not OUT THERE....and they are!

If there were only say 6-10 dogs that got sick and died, then why not do everything to make it right and refund the money or do what you have to do to keep the people happy? I am sure that would have cost alot less than all of this bad publicity has cost him. With all of the dogs he sells he could afford to do that. If you can afford to fly all over the world to export dogs then you can afford to replace a few sick ones.

Right on.

[dobiedude]

Originally Posted by CO_yorkie_momma

You are right, that is the only people on this site that have complained but according to Fox News there are many more. Lets look at it this way. If there were only say 6-10 dogs that got sick and died, then why not do everything to make it right and refund the money or do what you have to do to keep the people happy? I am sure that would have cost alot less than all of this bad publicity has cost him. With all of the dogs he sells he could afford to do that. If you can afford to fly all over the world to export dogs then you can afford to replace a few sick ones. He doesnt know if these dogs are sick before he hauls them back here and he dang sure doesnt know if the puppies are coming from lines with no genetic health defects either. He doesnt care, he just wants to make a buck off of them.

Also when people come to my house to see puppies they are interested in purchasing, you can bet all of my dogs are well groom and the puppies are clean and smell good. Why would a person bring out a poop covered dog to show to a potential buyer and tell them sorry we didnt have time to give it a bath? That right there tells you they arent getting bathed and cared for very well if they dont even have time to do it for the new customers. I am not trying to jump all over you, jsut trying to get you to see what everyone else sees.

I agree totally.
But even your sales agreement states they have 2 days to get the puppy vet checked and if they don't it is null and void also you say you don't pay vet bills. This looks pretty standard for the industry
So lets pretend:
If someone brought you one of your puppies back a sick puppy say 4 or 5 days later or worse yet a dead puppy with out a vet certificate you would replace it no questions asked or pay the vet bills?
I know your not jumping on me this is just a conversation about the what ifs. I think after our initial clash we have been pretty calm with each other.
Neither one of us should cast judgment on anyone if we are not involved. That has been my only point just hear out both sides and make an informed decision.

[CO_yorkie_momma]

Originally Posted by dobiedude

I agree totally.
But even your sales agreement states they have 2 days to get the puppy vet checked and if they don't it is null and void also you say you don't pay vet bills. This looks pretty standard for the industry
So lets pretend:
If someone brought you one of your puppies back a sick puppy say 4 or 5 days later or worse yet a dead puppy with out a vet certificate you would replace it no questions asked or pay the vet bills?
I know your not jumping on me this is just a conversation about the what ifs. I think after our initial clash we have been pretty calm with each other.
Neither one of us should cast judgment on anyone if we are not involved. That has been my only point just hear out both sides and make an informed decision.

If it were only four or five days then I would see what their vet said and if we are in agreement that the puppy was sick before it left or it died of causes because of my neglect or my lines being bad of course I would do the right thing. You have to look at each individual case, but if I had several people all of a sudden with my puppies sick and dying then I would think that is my fault and stop breeding the parents and all of them would get their money back because I dont have several litters to choose from for replacements. I wouldnt be able to sleep at night until I made it right where we both walked away satisfied.

[CO_yorkie_momma]

I forgot to say that is why you ask questions and find out who is getting your dogs and it they are knowledgable on yorkie issues and how to take care of them. I try to place mine with people that are used to toy breeds and know what to look for as far as hypoglycemia, and other health issues that can be prevented. I let them know they cant take their dogs out and let other dogs around them and other people handle them until all of their shots are given. I usually make sure my dogs have 3 sets of shots before they leave my house. I would never let a puppy leave if they were sick, had diarahhea, or anything that would endnager their lives. That is just asking for trouble. So far I have been lucky and havent had a sick dog or any of these issues to deal with but I am sure it is just a matter of time. When the time comes I will think of what is the right thing to do not what is best for my pocketbook.

[Buddah<3r]

Originally Posted by dobiedude

Please do and you will see. But I don't think you would change some of these peoples minds.

You know what? Dont jump on my back. I didnt even accuse you of anything. Infact if you are "innocent" than checking the IP address would show that. Stop being so defensive.

[dobiedude]

Originally Posted by CO_yorkie_momma

If it were only four or five days then I would see what their vet said and if we are in agreement that the puppy was sick before it left or it died of causes because of my neglect or my lines being bad of course I would do the right thing. You have to look at each individual case, but if I had several people all of a sudden with my puppies sick and dying then I would think that is my fault and stop breeding the parents and all of them would get their money back because I dont have several litters to choose from for replacements. I wouldnt be able to sleep at night until I made it right where we both walked away satisfied.

Ok fair enough but like I said no vet check was performed. I know a large percentage of people do not take their new puppies to the vet within the required two days. So like I said no vet check so you do not know what caused it. So don't you think it would be hard for you to give another puppy or give the money back? I know this seems a little off course here but its just a point I am trying to make.
I agree you have to look at each individual case and it appears by the volume of dogs sold there may be more than a few cases each year. As I have been reading this post it appears this has all happened some time ago. I have only read one recent account on here of a shiz sue being sick so who knows.

[dobiedude]

Originally Posted by Buddah<3r

You know what? Dont jump on my back. I didnt even accuse you of anything. Infact if you are "innocent" than checking the IP address would show that. Stop being so defensive.

I didn't jump on your back. All I said is it won't change some peoples minds in here.
Please have them check I would love to hear the results.

[dobiedude]

Originally Posted by CO_yorkie_momma

I forgot to say that is why you ask questions and find out who is getting your dogs and it they are knowledgable on yorkie issues and how to take care of them. I try to place mine with people that are used to toy breeds and know what to look for as far as hypoglycemia, and other health issues that can be prevented. I let them know they cant take their dogs out and let other dogs around them and other people handle them until all of their shots are given. I usually make sure my dogs have 3 sets of shots before they leave my house. I would never let a puppy leave if they were sick, had diarahhea, or anything that would endnager their lives. That is just asking for trouble. So far I have been lucky and havent had a sick dog or any of these issues to deal with but I am sure it is just a matter of time. When the time comes I will think of what is the right thing to do not what is best for my pocketbook.

I hope so but you know it could happen and thats all I am saying. You never can say how you will react because each situation is different and if someone was a major butt hole it may change your mind. or maybe not just another way of looking at it.

[MsCheryle478]

[QUOTE=dobiedude;933420]Ok fair enough but like I said no vet check was performed. I know a large percentage of people do not take their new puppies to the vet within the required two days.

That isn't necessarily true. Those vet checks ups don't immediately show everything. When I got my puppymill girl Bijou, I took her for her check up immed. The puppymill breeder had already mentioned the kennel cough and sent some Clavimox with me. She didn't call it kennel cough, just a little cold. According to her papers the pup had been wormed and UTD on shots. Within a week I noticed her stools becoming loser which prompted a fecal exam. It was then found she had worms and coccidia. To make a long story short I am still paying vet bills and treating all her ailments. Do I blame the puppymill? Absolutely. I was not sold a healthy dog by any means. Could all of this been found out during that first vet exam? Nope. Doesn't mean I wasn't ripped off.

[Buddah<3r]

[QUOTE=MsCheryle478;933437]

Originally Posted by dobiedude

Ok fair enough but like I said no vet check was performed. I know a large percentage of people do not take their new puppies to the vet within the required two days.

That isn't necessarily true. Those vet checks ups don't immediately show everything. When I got my puppymill girl Bijou, I took her for her check up immed. The puppymill breeder had already mentioned the kennel cough and sent some Clavimox with me. She didn't call it kennel cough, just a little cold. According to her papers the pup had been wormed and UTD on shots. Within a week I noticed her stools becoming loser which prompted a fecal exam. It was then found she had worms and coccidia. To make a long story short I am still paying vet bills and treating all her ailments. Do I blame the puppymill? Absolutely. I was not sold a healthy dog by any means. Could all of this been found out during that first vet exam? Nope. Doesn't mean I wasn't ripped off.

When I took Marley to the vet I was cautioned about a soft spot on his head that the vet thought may be dangerous, but wouldnt be able to tell without some kind of brain scan. $$$$$ When I called the breeder they told me he was check by our vet and he doesnt think anything is wrong. I asked them if they did the scan. No, that isnt normal proceedure. I was told I would have to pay for the exam myself, but cautioned me I was still under the same 48hr rule. Well it was already the 2nd day so if I had the scan the next day I was S.O.L!

The vet said I could wait to see if it developed or not without the scan but by the time I that happens I wouldnt be able to do anything about getting money back ect.

Some things are caused by genetics and do not come up until later. When you run so many dogs thru your facility you could be breeding relatives and causing lots of problems. Also BCK is bringing the majority of their dogs in from all over the world. Which means they dont even know what the genitic line is.

100s of dogs a year is WAY too many. period.

[Timmy]

[QUOTE=MsCheryle478;933437]

Originally Posted by dobiedude

Ok fair enough but like I said no vet check was performed. I know a large percentage of people do not take their new puppies to the vet within the required two days.

That isn't necessarily true. Those vet checks ups don't immediately show everything. When I got my puppymill girl Bijou, I took her for her check up immed. The puppymill breeder had already mentioned the kennel cough and sent some Clavimox with me. She didn't call it kennel cough, just a little cold. According to her papers the pup had been wormed and UTD on shots. Within a week I noticed her stools becoming loser which prompted a fecal exam. It was then found she had worms and coccidia. To make a long story short I am still paying vet bills and treating all her ailments. Do I blame the puppymill? Absolutely. I was not sold a healthy dog by any means. Could all of this been found out during that first vet exam? Nope. Doesn't mean I wasn't ripped off.

You are absolutely right!! Timmy came from a broker (puppy mill) took him to the vet the following day I got him. Vet said he's in perfect health. Few days later the loose stool and he had coccidia. Then 1 month later he wasn't eating and rapidly losing weight.. took him to the vet they had to start IV's on him right away. He's doing fine now but I spent so much money during the first 2 months of having him.

[Buddah<3r]

Originally Posted by dobiedude

I hope so but you know it could happen and thats all I am saying. You never can say how you will react because each situation is different and if someone was a major butt hole it may change your mind. or maybe not just another way of looking at it.

A freind of my parents breeds small dogs. If she had yorkies I would have gotten one from here but she doesn't.

I have seen her help so many people with vet bills, taking dogs back, ect. even when it wasnt her fault. Because for her is really isnt about the money. She does it because she loves little dogs. And she wants to enhance the breed. She has about 12 that belong to her alone. And she is always keeping in touch with those that buy from her.

So I think if you have that mind set, you do know how you will react because it is about your love for the puppy and the families you place them in.

Besides that she is VERY picky about who takes home a puppy. The person must visit with her atleast 2 times before she makes a decision about placing the dog with them; so I can see how she is more apt to help people when they need it.

She feels she knows them.

You are right that you cannot please all people, but you dont have to sell puppies to those people. Being in the business I'm in I can say with confidence that you WILL know who these people are from the get go. So dont sell to them!

[dobiedude]

[QUOTE=MsCheryle478;933437]

Originally Posted by dobiedude

Ok fair enough but like I said no vet check was performed. I know a large percentage of people do not take their new puppies to the vet within the required two days.

That isn't necessarily true. Those vet checks ups don't immediately show everything. When I got my puppymill girl Bijou, I took her for her check up immed. The puppymill breeder had already mentioned the kennel cough and sent some Clavimox with me. She didn't call it kennel cough, just a little cold. According to her papers the pup had been wormed and UTD on shots. Within a week I noticed her stools becoming loser which prompted a fecal exam. It was then found she had worms and coccidia. To make a long story short I am still paying vet bills and treating all her ailments. Do I blame the puppymill? Absolutely. I was not sold a healthy dog by any means. Could all of this been found out during that first vet exam? Nope. Doesn't mean I wasn't ripped off.

I didnt say the vet was going to catch everything immediately. I said most ppl don't do it. My vet told me puppies are very prone to get coccidia and to treat for it anyway. Which I did not know at the time. My point is no one knows if the dog is sick like you said even the vet didn't know so how is the person who sold it going to know?