Education With A Dose of Kindness

[chachi]

Originally Posted by navillusc

Charlene, you''ll get no judgment or condemnation from me, rather, I applaud you for posting. It is a courageous act. I understand what you are saying and agree there is no need for omitting kindness and consideration from a response post. I was raised differently, raised my children differently, and my granddaughter is being raised differently.

Because I feel what you wrote is important, I have been writing, editing, thinking about, deleting, and re-writing my response for longer than I'd care to say, wondering if it would be helpful to say certain things or not, so instead I will just say that the fact that Ann felt it necessary to write an admonition thread about 'negativity and where we go from here' on YT should be sufficient for forum members to realize the damage they are causing to the YT reputation. Her thread saddened me so much I had to leave the thread...then I realized it was apparently not the first such admonition thread.

I've been giving 'needy' fur babies 'good homes' for 45+ years (despite being 26 years old now...lol) regardless of where they came from and am still not qualified to judge others' actions in this regard nor do I understand why some are judged 'qualified' to make that determination where others who take in these poor fur babies are judged 'unfit' and/or 'unworthy' to be granted 'rescuer' status. IMHO, there is no status associated with helping the needy...rather it is the genuine caring, help, and love given that count. So, yes, sometimes I, too, see what appears to be negativity on YT, and that explains a lot about my posts and threads.

I want the YT forum to be a positive force for good and try not to harm it, and I, too, will continue reading more often than posting. However, I still believe there are absolutely wonderful, caring people here and I love that part of YT!!!

Who is judging Charlene I have not seen one person on this thread do that. What I have heard it them explaining the other side and there is another side

[concretegurl]

Originally Posted by concretegurl

There is an ignore function on here.

If people don't like how people respond and it's not a violation of the rule here then they should utalize the ignore function.

I for one a entirely sick of people commenting about the manner, type, tone, or otherwise off topic response to other people's responses!

If you don't like my response, or someone else don't read it, use ignore, why quote me & then tell me how I should or should not respond-I find that rude.

I wish there was a rule about commenting on content not style.

Please, thank you, have a nice day.

I want to clarify tone is often misinterpreted by the reader on the internet.
Before commenting about someone comment which is so negative & OT, try reading the way you usually do, then take a break and come back read it in a concerned voice (tone), take another break come back and read it in a laughing tone-then reply, about the topic or specifically about the opinions or posts of others.

Also it is very true passions run high-sometimes it's all together tiring to see post after post of some things (some things was meant in a stern sad tone).

[chachi]

Originally Posted by concretegurl

I want to clarify tone is often misinterpreted by the reader on the internet.
Before commenting about someone comment which is so negative & OT, try reading the way you usually do, then take a break and come back read it in a concerned voice (tone), take another break come back and read it in a laughing tone-then reply, about the topic or specifically about the opinions or posts of others.

Also it is very true passions run high-sometimes it's all together tiring to see post after post of some things (some things was meant in a stern sad tone).

I really dont think we can get them to see our point of view they only see what they want. It was just insinuated that we are judging Charlene. Which goes to provew my point I made earlier if you are in disagreeance you are rude or judging.

[navillusc]

Originally Posted by chachi

...posts like My Pup droped 6 ft and he was seizuring I cant take him to a vet what should I do"...

Because the forum covers the world, and access to Emergency Vet Hospitals does not, reasons such as this would make a forum with knowledgeable pet owners, vets, vet techs, veterinary school students, etc...someone/anyone who can offer first aid advice or assistance until the pet can be seen by a vet...indispensable.

I know how distraught I'd be under such circumstances...and not for the 6' fall reason, but I've had to 'tough it out' til morning to see my regular vet EVEN AFTER taking a pet to the ER 'cuz ER DID NOTHING BUT RUN MY CREDIT CARD! My vet was a founder of the Vet ER, who didn't even have a vet on-site...just a clerk for taking credit cards..not even qualified for triage...and was SO APPALLED he gave me his home phone number. He also helped FIX the ER again and the next time they saved my baby from certain death.

On the brighter side, I did get my money back, and they made the 'mistake' of calling to see how I enjoyed their services...and got an earful. Even so, when I said, "how can you call yourself an ER without a vet on-site" and "if you took your non-breathing child to a hospital ER, would you expect there to be a doctor there?" they still defended their right NOT to have a doctor even called to the ER until after you signed the credit card receipt. On the night this happened, I'd have been SO GRATEFUL for a kitty owners forum with a kind soul to offer any assistance possible until morning vet office hours began.

[Ringo1]

Originally Posted by navillusc

Because the forum covers the world, and access to Emergency Vet Hospitals does not, reasons such as this would make a forum with knowledgeable pet owners, vets, vet techs, veterinary school students, etc...someone/anyone who can offer first aid advice or assistance until the pet can be seen by a vet...indispensable.

I know how distraught I'd be under such circumstances...and not for the 6' fall reason, but I've had to 'tough it out' til morning to see my regular vet EVEN AFTER taking a pet to the ER 'cuz ER DID NOTHING BUT RUN MY CREDIT CARD! My vet was a founder of the Vet ER, who didn't even have a vet on-site...just a clerk for taking credit cards..not even qualified for triage...and was SO APPALLED he gave me his home phone number. He also helped FIX the ER again and the next time they saved my baby from certain death.

On the brighter side, I did get my money back, and they made the 'mistake' of calling to see how I enjoyed their services...and got an earful. Even so, when I said, "how can you call yourself an ER without a vet on-site" and "if you took your non-breathing child to a hospital ER, would you expect there to be a doctor there?" they still defended their right NOT to have a doctor even called to the ER until after you signed the credit card receipt. On the night this happened, I'd have been SO GRATEFUL for a kitty owners forum with a kind soul to offer any assistance possible until morning vet office hours began.

I can appreciate that you had a unique situation. However, you must know that the vast majority of posts are not dealing with the fact that the OP has gone to an ER vet - only to find that no Vet was there.

I think that the professionals on YT have to be very careful about dispensing advice for life-threatening illness - in lieu of a Vet.

Most do give their advice - but it is always (and should be) tempered with - advice to see a qualified Vet immediately.

I see nothing wrong with that.

[navillusc]

Originally Posted by chachi

... It was just insinuated that we are judging Charlene. Which goes to provew my point I made earlier if you are in disagreeance you are rude or judging.

Actually, it was not insinuated nor stated outright that Charlene was/is being judged. The post was directed to the OP, hence the "Charlene," greeting, and the post was merely stating that judgement won't come from me. My re-iteration of lack of judgment was at least the second such comment using some variation of the word "judge". I am sorry for the confusion, but I do believe the point to be cleared up now.

Take care.

[concretegurl]

Originally Posted by chachi

I really dont think we can get them to see our point of view they only see what they want. It was just insinuated that we are judging Charlene. Which goes to provew my point I made earlier if you are in disagreeance you are rude or judging.

I guess so.
I've definitely been rude, I'm over it.
Open forum invite multiple responses of every nature.
I've been nice & called rude, I'm over that too.
I've no idea who Charlene is.

I find it bizzarre ppl are so upset an obious attention seeking trouble maker comes on saying he hates Yorkies think they should be extinct, yet he would never stand for their abuse...now ppl were up in arms, for due cause, very rude to him which was seen as justified yet when ppl are on here justifying excuse for, neglect, mistreatment, abuse, lack of medical care or their intention to do these things but they proclaim their undying love for Yorkies so we need to respond politely or be crucified as the real problem here-I'll never understand that hence my user-title...

[Tayluvheryorkie]

Originally Posted by chachi

That is sad you view the forum that way I dont. yes there are some c. condenscending post however overwhelmingly the posts are not. I think if thats all your seeing your missing out on alot this forum has to offer. One or two harsh posts here or there dont make me view the whole forum as harsh

I see more than one or two harsh post here. I do not feel I am missing out on anything, because I see the point in the post it is just the overall tone of it that is a bit harsh. I have been here a year, For a while I just lurked. A newbie might feel attacked.

I respect everyone opinion, I have learned a lot here. I do not comment on a lot of post because my view is different, Example Corky, is my daughters dog who is 13. She loves him like crazy. Dresses him up, he has matching leashes, to go to his shirts, shoes, rain coats and shoes. He follows her around the house, he returns the love. I pay for vet bills, buy food and do everything I can to keep him a healthy happy dog. If it were not for this place Corky, would be getting booster shots every year. I know better; I Learn that here. Before my late husband and I got her a dog we did the research to find the RIGHT dog for her. A Yorkie was good fit for her and our household. But Corky to me is just a dog, that is it. To be honest if she did not want a dog, I would not have one. My POV is not the norm here, so I keep quiet. I do not have the passion you guys have for your dogs, But I respect it. I just do not feel mines will be.

[yorkietalkjilly]

Originally Posted by chachi

Exactly it is very hard to educate with a dose of kindness when you get posts like My Pup droped 6 ft and he was seizuring I cant take him to a vet what should I do" and they dont want to accept they clearfly need to get to a vet asap. Or my yorkie tied with our great dane. Sometimes the matter is so severe or immediate youve got to get through to them. I have seen on threads of an emergency situation and posters tried to pacify and not upset the poster and they didnt get needed vet care and pup died

When a dog's well-being is alarmingly at stake and the owner is on this site posting questions rather than driving to the E.R. Vet or already sitting in a Treatment Room, and there is post after post from members suggesting emergency vet care and now it's been over an hour or two, it is time to enjoin the OP with something that makes them actually feel - since the dog's suffering or plight obviously hasn't. I don't think name-calling, ugly insinuations or a nasty attitude are ever appropriate on YorkieTalk but strong wording is necessary sometimes as the other attempts at educating aren't working. And though some of those posts may sound harsh because of wording or perceived tone, knowing the heart of most YT members, those "mean" posters would be the first to step up and drive the OP & the dog to the vet if they could.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by concretegurl

I guess so.
I've definitely been rude, I'm over it.
Open forum invite multiple responses of every nature.
I've been nice & called rude, I'm over that too.
I've no idea who Charlene is.

I find it bizzarre ppl are so upset an obious attention seeking trouble maker comes on saying he hates Yorkies think they should be extinct, yet he would never stand for their abuse...now ppl were up in arms, for due cause, very rude to him which was seen as justified yet when ppl are on here justifying excuse for, neglect, mistreatment, abuse, lack of medical care or their intention to do these things but they proclaim their undying love for Yorkies so we need to respond politely or be crucified as the real problem here-I'll never understand that hence my user-title...

Charlene is the OP. Her name is in her siggy. The guy you mentioned was an obvious troll, trying to push people's buttons. Posts were deleted that were seen as rude and some were deleted for just quoting him because some of his posts were over the top rude. I think in the other cases where there is some perceived neglect, if people answer too harshly, the OP gets too defensive and no education takes place. If the object is to educate/help the pup, that goes out the window when we have made the OP feel defensive. I really think we can come to a happy medium at this. Just as you say people can ignore the rude posts, you can also ignore the posts that are critical of people's writing style, and if you can't, it might help you understand why it's difficult for others to ignore the rude posts. I find it hard to ignore both!

For me, it's about what works, and rude posts just don't work, they help the writer vent a little, but they don’t usually help the OP change their mind. If the so called polite people are “crucifying” you, perhaps they aren't as polite as they think, and should take a dose of their own medicine. The truth of it is NOBODY likes to be told what they are doing is wrong; I don’t care how polite you put it! However, sometimes they do listen if you can get through to them without making them feel bad. I do hope we don't come to a point where politeness is seen as the final frontier, and how we say something is more important than what we say. I know it's been hard for some of the good breeders to answer posts because they were often seen as rude just because someone didn't like what they were saying.

[nanahas3]

I honestly was not referring to anyone in particular it just seems alot of this is going on lately and like I said I have received pm's from some of the new ones. Like I said I have went back and reread some of my own past posts and wanted to kick myself for the way I sounded in my responses to some. I am sorry if this thread has offended anyone and I really just was hoping it would help, not cause further issues. I did not take offence by any of the responses either I know each and everyone of us is intitled to to state how we feel on a forum. And I know we all love our yorkie's or we would not be here. God bless.

[concretegurl]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Charlene is the OP. Her name is in her siggy. The guy you mentioned was an obvious troll, trying to push people's buttons. Posts were deleted that were seen as rude and some were deleted for just quoting him because some of his posts were over the top rude. I think in the other cases where there is some perceived neglect, if people answer too harshly, the OP gets too defensive and no education takes place. If the object is to educate/help the pup, that goes out the window when we have made the OP feel defensive. I really think we can come to a happy medium at this. Just as you say people can ignore the rude posts, you can also ignore the posts that are critical of people's writing style, and if you can't, it might help you understand why it's difficult for others to ignore the rude posts. I find it hard to ignore both!

For me, it's about what works, and rude posts just don't work, they help the writer vent a little, but they don’t usually help the OP change their mind. If the so called polite people are “crucifying” you, perhaps they aren't as polite as they think, and should take a dose of their own medicine. The truth of it is NOBODY likes to be told what they are doing is wrong; I don’t care how polite you put it! However, sometimes they do listen if you can get through to them without making them feel bad. I do hope we don't come to a point where politeness is seen as the final frontier, and how we say something is more important than what we say. I know it's been hard for some of the good breeders to answer posts because they were often seen as rude just because someone didn't like what they were saying.

Really good points.
I will really try to and I think I have been over the last year, try to just give non-harsh advice to the point of a positive resolution (but I'll really note my choice in words)...in the first post I make to a thread...it is very frustrating when someone responds but refuses any and all sounds advice.

Examples I chose something I've never read here specifically as not to offend anyone:
OP: my dog has been hit by a car how do I make a splint?

MY Initial response: please take your dog to the vet

OP responses again: so dog is now super lethargic and not eating
what do I do now...no we aren't going to the vet that cost too much or it's too far away a 20 minute drive is just too long and it's already been 4 days the vet will just want to do an expensive surgery now since immediate care wasn't sought, did I mention that she's 3 or 4 pounds and pregnant by a basset pound about to deliver?

MY subsequent response:&^%$ *&^5 #$(@

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by concretegurl

Really good points.
I will really try to and I think I have been over the last year, try to just give non-harsh advice to the point of a positive resolution (but I'll really note my choice in words)...in the first post I make to a thread...it is very frustrating when someone responds but refuses any and all sounds advice.

Examples I chose something I've never read here specifically as not to offend anyone:
OP: my dog has been hit by a car how do I make a splint?

MY Initial response: please take your dog to the vet

OP responses again: so dog is now super lethargic and not eating
what do I do now...no we aren't going to the vet that cost too much or it's too far away a 20 minute drive is just too long and it's already been 4 days the vet will just want to do an expensive surgery now since immediate care wasn't sought, did I mention that she's 3 or 4 pounds and pregnant by a basset pound about to deliver?

MY subsequent response:&^%$ *&^5 #$(@

Lol, I was expecting ""Really?" & "Good to know." from you!

I agree with yorkietalkjilly who said, "But the intent is not to hurt the feelings of the OP but speak in a direct fashion, since kinder, more gentler-worded posts are clearly not getting through." So sometimes a more direct post is needed. I really do understand the frustration, I'm not sure how much we can help some of these people.

[GeorgiesMomma]

Originally Posted by nanahas3

I honestly was not referring to anyone in particular it just seems alot of this is going on lately and like I said I have received pm's from some of the new ones. Like I said I have went back and reread some of my own past posts and wanted to kick myself for the way I sounded in my responses to some. I am sorry if this thread has offended anyone and I really just was hoping it would help, not cause further issues. I did not take offence by any of the responses either I know each and everyone of us is intitled to to state how we feel on a forum. And I know we all love our yorkie's or we would not be here. God bless.

Charlene,

This thread has not offended me and I understand why you posted. I have been on YT since 2006. I took a long break from it but when I came back I realized just how great this site is (I knew it before but had a son and was busy). It's an open forum people can say what they want but I agree kindness gets you further even with those that you want to post a ton of expletives to. I can't tell you how many times I have typed and deleted or edited my post.

[concretegurl]

Charlene, I know who you are now I'm semi back to the level...

I'm glad you posted this if nothing else it shows everyone where people are and why they get the responses they do and how everyone feels-to say people left because a few were rude is silly they can see how many others here respond in a polite way and in fact those who (unlike me I admit it) find it more productive to be polite and coddling outnumber those who are, direct, harsh or rude.

It's always good a thread like this comes up from time to time-which it does, it at least helps us understand each other's perspectives...food for thought etc.

Oh, and I too have reread many of responses based on how someone responded to it and went huh I see now why they thought this that wasn't how I meant it to sound-other times it really was.

Sometimes I do say, well I'm sorry you choose to feel that way. Enough said.