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10-23-2006, 04:11 PM | #1 |
Donating YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Canton,Ohio
Posts: 514
| A new kindler and gentler training method!!! Hi everyone, I wanted to update you on Lexie!! As many of you know, I have had problems with her being aggrseeive and growling and biting randomly at people and dogs. I did major research on trainers and a lot of them used harsh barbaric methods. No way was I letting them touch my baby girl! Yet I knew I had a major problem that had to be dealt with. After much research, I found an area trainer and have had 2 lessons so far. He uses a method called the "Dog Master". It is a unique teaching sound catalyst tuned to the dogs mind alone for mental directions and control. It is sort of like a small piece of jewelrywith a tiny tuning fork that vibrates Yes- I was VERY skeptical- how on earth can this work? HOWEVER- one session made a believer out of me! Lexie did a COMPLETE turnaround. Part of the problem was that she thought SHE had to be in control at all times, which was very stressful on her. It was a MAJOR relief to her when she realized that I WAS the one in control and making the decisions. This trainer had Lexie totally under control WITHOUT ANY PHYSICAL FORCE AND WITHOUT YELLING or even RAISING his voice- it was absolutely the most amazing thing I have ever seen. If I hadn't have seen it with my own eyes I would never have believed this was possible. This works for a multitude of issues from barking to jumping to the aggression issue I have dealt with. I had another lesson tonight and she did AWESOME! I actually had her coming on command and staying with me until I released her- I never thought this was possible with her! Thank GOD!!!! There is hope for my baby!! If anyone is interested in any more info on this, please let me know. I am definately the new DOG MASTER marketing person- this is GREAT!
__________________ Kris , RIP Lexie , Bella Zoey |
Welcome Guest! | |
10-23-2006, 05:08 PM | #2 |
Donating YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Chicago Suburbs
Posts: 3,306
| I'm really glad that you found something that works for you! I don't know anything about the training method you describe, but positive reinforcement training had the same outcome for Loki. Yes the good old clicks and treats, no "aversives". Also something called the Nothing in Life is Free method, which also makes dogs realize they are not in charge. Sounds like your trainer uses similar methods - just not sure about the tuning fork thing, but hey if he's not yelling or hurting the dog I'm not going to criticize! Isn't training fun? We signed up for puppy class over a year ago and just kept taking classes!
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10-23-2006, 05:56 PM | #3 |
Donating YT 12K Club Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Council Bluffs Iowa
Posts: 12,552
| It sounds like the theory is the same as the Dog Whisperers theory concerning misbehavior. That the person has to let the dog know that they are the ones in charge. The method of getting the message across is different. So how does it work, they give one tone for the correct behavior, and a different one for improper behavior? |
10-23-2006, 08:05 PM | #4 | |
Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 102
| Quote:
__________________ ~ Amy ~ | |
10-24-2006, 01:00 AM | #5 |
YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: American in London
Posts: 1,739
| I'm glad that you are happy with how things are going! I must say that I've never heard of this method, but would enjoy hearing more. Is the "tuning fork" used to acknowledge good behavior (& is then followed by a treat) or does the "tuning fork" indicate to the dog that he has done something wrong? How often is the sound used?
__________________ FirstYorkie We Love Clicker-Training! |
10-24-2006, 03:38 AM | #6 |
Donating YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Canton,Ohio
Posts: 514
| So how does it work, they give one tone for the correct behavior, and a different one for improper behavior?[/QUOTE] The tone is basically just an interruption in the dogs thought process. (the same tone is used for everything) The idea is to distract them away from what they are doing and then PRAISE,PRAISE,PRAISE when you get the desired behavior. Example: Teaching come: 1. "Lexie, Come" (no dog master sound) if she even glances up or her ears perk up, praise! "Good dog, good dog!" If she doesn't come..... 2."Lexie ,Come" (click the dog master in your hand as you say come) again, praise for ANY response!! If she still doesn't come... 3."Lexie, Come" (no dog master sound) if she even glances up or her ears perk up, praise! "Good dog, good dog!" If she still isn't coming.. 4. "Lexie, Come" and toss the dog master at her feet (not throwing it at her- just NEAR her) The timing of this is absolutely CRITICAL- you must have the instrument land just as you are saying "come" The vast majority of dogs will come by this point. Then you move and do it again... and again.... until they automatically follow you. The dog master can also interrupt unwanted behavior by distracting them. If they are barking at the door, you DO NOT SAY NO (as I have done a million times) You click the dog master in your hand , praise them if you get ANY response. If they continue barking you toss it near them and again praise when they stop. I have 4 of these instruments and right now I sometimes have to use a few of them to achieve the desired response.(if I toss one and the barking doesn't stop, then I start over with the sequence) It is amazing how quickly they learn. Lexie actually cowers when she hears the sound. So it absolutely makes an impression on them. She now realizes I am the one in charge NOT her!! I hope I have explained it clearly enough for you to get an idea. Let me know if you have questions!
__________________ Kris , RIP Lexie , Bella Zoey |
10-24-2006, 04:13 AM | #7 | |
Donating YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Chicago Suburbs
Posts: 3,306
| Quote:
We used a shaker bottle (like a pill bottle with a penny in it) to learn come. They associate the sound with a treat, then with the word COME. These all sound similar to techniques we used in classes but the tuning fork thing is just an odd twist. I am glad it's working but I think it's probably unnecessary.
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10-24-2006, 05:00 AM | #8 | |
Donating YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Canton,Ohio
Posts: 514
| Quote:
__________________ Kris , RIP Lexie , Bella Zoey | |
10-24-2006, 07:24 AM | #9 |
YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: American in London
Posts: 1,739
| I'm afraid that you are still using an aversive. There are several things you desbribe that I'm not comfortable with. However, as far as aversives go, I guess it's more benign than most. Good luck.
__________________ FirstYorkie We Love Clicker-Training! |
10-24-2006, 08:00 AM | #10 | |
Donating YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Canton,Ohio
Posts: 514
| Quote:
__________________ Kris , RIP Lexie , Bella Zoey | |
10-24-2006, 08:06 AM | #11 | |
Donating YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Canton,Ohio
Posts: 514
| Quote:
__________________ Kris , RIP Lexie , Bella Zoey | |
10-24-2006, 08:07 AM | #12 |
Donating YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Chicago Suburbs
Posts: 3,306
| I wouldn't tolerate that behavior either. The alternative is not to allow it. We are both just suggesting that it might be an aversive technique. What you are learning is similar to the techniques I've learned in my positive reinforcement training courses, except those techniques wouldn't make the dog cower. The point is not to make them submissive but to make them learn the rules - what behavior is allowed and what is not. I guess what I'm saying is that there might be a similar way to teach her that might not make her cower, that's all.
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10-24-2006, 08:08 AM | #13 | |
Donating YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Chicago Suburbs
Posts: 3,306
| Quote:
__________________ | |
10-24-2006, 09:26 AM | #14 |
Donating YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Canton,Ohio
Posts: 514
| [QUOTE=Erin]I The point is not to make them submissive but to make them learn the rules - what behavior is allowed and what is not. QUOTE] I disagree about making them submissive- I believe that they absolutely need to know that YOU are the leader. By submission, please understand I am not talking about "beating" them and physically or verbally abusing them in any way. It is a frame of mind. And they DO need a leader or else they themselves will take over that leadership role and that is where a lot of issues occur. I can compare it to correcting my child. If he cries or is uncomfortable, should I NOT discipline him? Of course not! We all know it is essential for our kids to grow up into decent human beings. I want my dog to be the same way- so people enjoy being around her!!!!! The bottom line is that I do not feel that there is 1 perfect technique. You have to do what you are comfortable with and what works for your dog, as long as it is not cruel unusual punishment. Not every method works for everyone.
__________________ Kris , RIP Lexie , Bella Zoey |
10-24-2006, 09:53 AM | #15 |
Donating YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Chicago Suburbs
Posts: 3,306
| I understand what submission is. You can be a leader without making your dog submissive. Dominance and Leadership are not the same thing. I understand your comparison and I agree that you shouldn't let your dog behave badly, however children understand reasoning and dogs do not. Dogs don't know how to manipulate, they don't feel guilt, they don't even understand our version of right from wrong. In a dog's mind they are always justified in their actions. They don't have higher reasoning skills. We can only teach them what is allowed and what is not allowed. And by being the leader, you control the resources and set the expectations. I don't believe they need to "submit" to us to follow the rules.
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