6+ years old, had it up to here - need help.

[celstu1]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

I believe that in cases where the pup has not been hit for pottying, the problem is confusion on the part of the pup. I hear people say that they walked and walked and walked their pup and then came in the house and the pup went in the house. What I have learned from reading and talking to different trainers is that the pups don't understand what is expected of them. They say to take them out to do their business in the same place every time...don't keep walking all over as then it becomes an "outing", not a time to do something you want them to do...eliminate. Take them out to the same place consistently and praise the daylights out of them when they potty. Then, take them back in the house. There is a time to potty and a time to play.
Perhaps this link will help you:

Free House Training for Puppies and Adult Dogs - No More Accidents Starting Today!

Thanks! I moved in with my bf in June. Since June they have gone out to the same place every single day. I ask them if they want to go out, they run to the stairs and go to the door, I let them out and for only about 10 mins at most (specifically to potty only). Housebreaking on a daily basis is getting better but still needs a lot of work. Some days there are NO accidents at all and then some days it's like a bomb exploded when I get home from work.

What I REALLY do not get is the pooping in the living room or somewhere when I shut them out of the room. Like I can go into the bedroom and shut the door, they will whine at the door for a bit and then walk away. When I come out 5 mins later, they have pooped in the living room or kitchen or somewhere. I don't get that. What doggy mentality is that??

[ladyjane]

I am no expert by any means, but I simply don't believe they are vindictive. To way that a pup will squat while outside and "act" like it is going to the bathroom to fool me so that he/she can come into the house and tick me off by soiling in the house is just ludicrous to me. I do believe they hide what they are doing because they know we don't approve...but I still think it is more a matter of a bit of confusion on their parts.

[celstu1]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

I am no expert by any means, but I simply don't believe they are vindictive. To way that a pup will squat while outside and "act" like it is going to the bathroom to fool me so that he/she can come into the house and tick me off by soiling in the house is just ludicrous to me. I do believe they hide what they are doing because they know we don't approve...but I still think it is more a matter of a bit of confusion on their parts.

I agree... I do not think it's vindictive. However, I don't know how to explain why they do something like that when I'm not in the room. Anxious, nervous, separation issues??? They are smart boys who know to go outside for potty, but this type of behavior happens just about EVERY time I shut them out of a room that I'm in, even for only 3 mins. I am lost on this one. I know when I come out of the room to just start hunting for where they went cuz it's somewhere, no doubt.

[celstu1]

Doing some research, this could be a jealousy issue. Negative attention is better than no attention. I guess I can GET the problem, but no idea how to fix it. I have had them all their lives pretty much, from 9 weeks old, just over 5 years Ive had them in my home. They get SOOO much (ridiculous amounts - as if!!! LOL) love and attention and affection. When I am home I am all over them, playing, cuddling, loving on them. I think I created little monsters. When I'm home but not physically there giving them attention they get jealous and display bad behavior.

[kjc]

Do you give them negative attention for pottying while you were in another room? If yes, try just cleaning the mess up and ignore them, don't say anything to them. If they are doing it for attention, then removing the attention should fix the problem.

Mine follow me everywhere, even into my tiny bathroom when I take a potty break. Talk about funny, I felt like they were making sure I was housebroken instead of the other way around! I don't mind though, at least I know they're not out and about in the house making messes.

[kalina82]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

I am no expert by any means, but I simply don't believe they are vindictive. To way that a pup will squat while outside and "act" like it is going to the bathroom to fool me so that he/she can come into the house and tick me off by soiling in the house is just ludicrous to me. I do believe they hide what they are doing because they know we don't approve...but I still think it is more a matter of a bit of confusion on their parts.

Morgan can be a "fake" pee'er. I've actually seen her acting like she is urinating just so I'll let her back in the house.She doesn't really do it anymore but used to do it a lot when she was a puppy. Usually she did it when there was something or some one great in the house that she wanted to play with, or she did it in bad weather (snow, rain). In fact, thanks to the snow, this is how i discovered she was doing it. Her first winter she was 7-9 months old and we had some storms that left 1-2 feet of snow. she didn't like walking in the deeper snow and hadn't yet figured out to hug the house where its shallower like she does now. I couldn't figure out why she was peeing in the house after i JUST took her outside and saw her pee. So I started putting her back on a leash and going all the way outside with her so i could see what she was (or wasn't) doing. I swear to god, as soon as she set foot out in the snow, she sniffed around for 2 seconds, squatted like she was peeing for a few seconds and then tried to run back to the screen door. I bent down to check it out and what do you know, no yellow snow or melted tiny pee hole. I took her back to the spot and she did it again! So i then stood out there for 20 minutes until she finally went. Then we went back inside.

She tried it many times again during that winter but i figured out how to tell if she was fake peeing or actually peeing from my position at the doorway. Eventually she stopped doing it.

[smepperson]

Originally Posted by 107barney

I had not one but TWO puppies while I was a law student. Grad school is 100x more demanding than college and I was a science major there so I was not taking easy courses. I find your post to be full of frustration but also excuses - you two simply don't want to do what is needed for the dog that has become a pain in your butts. Maybe you should turn the dog over to a loving home willing to do the right things by the dog. You're both college educated soon-to-be-professionals that should know better than to mistreat an animal by causing it to have fear and isolation while you two get on with your day. Sad.

[evab]

My stomach turned and my heart sank when I read this post. The only good thing is you have come to a site of Yorkie lovers, who have joined this forum and ask for help and be given advice when needed and make friends. Please take the advice given and ask your Fiance to read these posts too... they are not ment in malice, just over whelming concern for the dog! Although the rescue option may seem harsh to some and your fiance will probably hit the roof when she reads on....! being selfish of her own needs and not the needs of this little furby is unacceptable to dog lovers.

[Luvdogs2]

Originally Posted by kalina82

Morgan can be a "fake" pee'er. I've actually seen her acting like she is urinating just so I'll let her back in the house.She doesn't really do it anymore but used to do it a lot when she was a puppy. Usually she did it when there was something or some one great in the house that she wanted to play with, or she did it in bad weather (snow, rain). In fact, thanks to the snow, this is how i discovered she was doing it. Her first winter she was 7-9 months old and we had some storms that left 1-2 feet of snow. she didn't like walking in the deeper snow and hadn't yet figured out to hug the house where its shallower like she does now. I couldn't figure out why she was peeing in the house after i JUST took her outside and saw her pee. So I started putting her back on a leash and going all the way outside with her so i could see what she was (or wasn't) doing. I swear to god, as soon as she set foot out in the snow, she sniffed around for 2 seconds, squatted like she was peeing for a few seconds and then tried to run back to the screen door. I bent down to check it out and what do you know, no yellow snow or melted tiny pee hole. I took her back to the spot and she did it again! So i then stood out there for 20 minutes until she finally went. Then we went back inside.

She tried it many times again during that winter but i figured out how to tell if she was fake peeing or actually peeing from my position at the doorway. Eventually she stopped doing it.

Bdog does the same thing. My fiance has gotten her in the habit of go pee, get back into the house and when it's cold outside, she doesn't like going out. She will do the same steps. It is forward thinking and planning ahead...a cause and effect scenario if you will. Does this support the ability to be vindictive, not from the research that I have done in the last few days, but any animal that has an understanding of action/reaction borderlines on the idea that the mental capacity and the capability of such behavior.

What I would like to know is why doing something they know is wrong in a situation like that instead of pacing, barking or something other than a bodily function that has been heavily frowned upon. Why would they default to something like that... Hmmmmmm, interesting question and until somebody learns to speak dog, we'll never truly know.

I guess I could just say "I think so" or "I don't think so" - that's one way to do it I suppose.

Update for you all:
Sunday was the start of a new beginning. When I got home, Bdog was let out and we started working on a few things. I did have to leash her to the chair where my fiance sits so she wouldn't pace and I could know she wasn't doing anything wrong. She wanted down, but while I was studying, she wasn't allowed to.

We went into the living room later and she sat beside my legs while I read in the recliner and watched a little Top Gear (I wasn't too impressed by the way, they need to work on the show to make it better). We went outside a few times and she wouldn't "drop the chalupa" but did pee a few times. Fiance got home and they did the meet and greet while I chatted a little and then went back to study more.

Bdog dropped the chalupa in the kennel over the course of the night. I didn't notice because I went to bed about 4 or 5 and got up at 7 to go take my test.

I didn't get a lot of time at the apartment over Monday because of duties at school and a second test I took today. I came home yesterday for a nap and went back to campus to study and meet with a design team because I'm a TA for the Senior Design projects. I studied until about 5 am and was in bed about 6, got up about noon so I could take my test at 2:30 - fiance left at 2 so we were pretty much following each other out the door. I got done with the exam and met another group for a lab session to figure out the report. I get home at 7 so I can pack and go home to do the holiday and work in my shop to keep the business going. I came in and Bdog messed the crate again.

I got her out and put her on the leash. All she wanted to do was hug the ground and submit - and before anyone says anything, this is what she does to my fiance or anyone that handles her when she makes a mess. She knows she did something wrong or that is not acceptable. It has nothing to do with 2 swats on her nose...and while I'm on that subject, you would think that I tried to knock her into next week when I did by your responses- I'm pretty sure it pissed her off a lot more than it hurt her. I know I'm a lot bigger, but I for darn sure know I can hit a LOT harder than I did with an open hand.

Anyway, so she's submitting and walking as low to the ground as possible so I take her over to the carpet and try working on sit....all she wants to do is submit and say "I'm sorry." I keep trying to get her to sit up...nothing, lay on the back, belly up. I try shake....nothing. So I get out a treat - you could see the confusion on her face. She started to try the submit into a roll over...like she was saying "sorry... but can I have that???" Hahaha, it was pretty funny - you had to be here.

So I'm holding the treat and we are working on speak. She went from the submit to "Ok, we are doing something different here, what does this guy want???" After about 5 minutes, I got a low growl to a BURF! She got the treat. Again, after speak and waiting a few seconds and repeating myself, she had it after about 30 seconds.

Once she did the trick, we went outside and she went pee.

My plan is this right now. We are going to learn speak on command and speak is the trick she will have to do in order to go outside. I'm hoping this will carry into a walk to the door and bark to let us know she wants to go outside. I'm going to insist that my fiance or myself doesn't use the speak trick for anything other than going outside. In order to come back inside or open up other doors will have to be met with a sit so she doesn't run to the doors and jump on them...but reinforce calm behavior and learning this NILF plan....but speak is to be used to go outside and associate it with the the potty outside.

She's laying in the kitchen right now - I swear I smell dog poo, but it's probably left over from the crate. I can't see her, but I can hear when she's moving - plus, I'm done for the Thanksgiving recess so I'm not doing homework.

What do you all think, good plan?

P.S. I didn't do anything, not even scold or looked cross at her for the mess - I didn't even mention it to her or speak under my breath. I'll probably not clean the crate to help reinforce my fiance's involvement with this...I don't want her thinking I am going to be there to clean it if she won't keep to the schedule and training....hahaha.

[smepperson]

Originally Posted by evab

My stomach turned and my heart sank when I read this post. The only good thing is you have come to a site of Yorkie lovers, who have joined this forum and ask for help and be given advice when needed and make friends. Please take the advice given and ask your Fiance to read these posts too... they are not ment in malice, just over whelming concern for the dog! Although the rescue option may seem harsh to some and your fiance will probably hit the roof when she reads on....! being selfish of her own needs and not the needs of this little furby is unacceptable to dog lovers.

[smepperson]

Originally Posted by QuickSilver

I'm going to admit I haven't read this entire thread... but I do want to say, dogs are NOT vindictive. It is simply not in their nature. They are totally dependant on you for food, shelter, affection, entertainment, everything. You are their world.

Dogs can be disobedient, but they are not spiteful. That's a human motivation.

Also, a lot of people think their dogs act guilty, but it's really just that the dog can anticipate that the almighty humans are going to get angry. They don't think, "I'm a bad dog for getting into the trash." They think, "trash on the floor means I'm going to get yelled at." There is a lot of research to back this up. Yorkies in particular figure out that potty on the floor gets humans upset long before they connect this with their body functions.

[kjc]

Originally Posted by Luvdogs2

Bdog does the same thing. My fiance has gotten her in the habit of go pee, get back into the house and when it's cold outside, she doesn't like going out. She will do the same steps. It is forward thinking and planning ahead...a cause and effect scenario if you will. Does this support the ability to be vindictive, not from the research that I have done in the last few days, but any animal that has an understanding of action/reaction borderlines on the idea that the mental capacity and the capability of such behavior.

What I would like to know is why doing something they know is wrong in a situation like that instead of pacing, barking or something other than a bodily function that has been heavily frowned upon. Why would they default to something like that... Hmmmmmm, interesting question and until somebody learns to speak dog, we'll never truly know.

I guess I could just say "I think so" or "I don't think so" - that's one way to do it I suppose.

Update for you all:
Sunday was the start of a new beginning. When I got home, Bdog was let out and we started working on a few things. I did have to leash her to the chair where my fiance sits so she wouldn't pace and I could know she wasn't doing anything wrong. She wanted down, but while I was studying, she wasn't allowed to.

We went into the living room later and she sat beside my legs while I read in the recliner and watched a little Top Gear (I wasn't too impressed by the way, they need to work on the show to make it better). We went outside a few times and she wouldn't "drop the chalupa" but did pee a few times. Fiance got home and they did the meet and greet while I chatted a little and then went back to study more.

Bdog dropped the chalupa in the kennel over the course of the night. I didn't notice because I went to bed about 4 or 5 and got up at 7 to go take my test.

I didn't get a lot of time at the apartment over Monday because of duties at school and a second test I took today. I came home yesterday for a nap and went back to campus to study and meet with a design team because I'm a TA for the Senior Design projects. I studied until about 5 am and was in bed about 6, got up about noon so I could take my test at 2:30 - fiance left at 2 so we were pretty much following each other out the door. I got done with the exam and met another group for a lab session to figure out the report. I get home at 7 so I can pack and go home to do the holiday and work in my shop to keep the business going. I came in and Bdog messed the crate again.

I got her out and put her on the leash. All she wanted to do was hug the ground and submit - and before anyone says anything, this is what she does to my fiance or anyone that handles her when she makes a mess. She knows she did something wrong or that is not acceptable. It has nothing to do with 2 swats on her nose...and while I'm on that subject, you would think that I tried to knock her into next week when I did by your responses- I'm pretty sure it pissed her off a lot more than it hurt her. I know I'm a lot bigger, but I for darn sure know I can hit a LOT harder than I did with an open hand.

Anyway, so she's submitting and walking as low to the ground as possible so I take her over to the carpet and try working on sit....all she wants to do is submit and say "I'm sorry." I keep trying to get her to sit up...nothing, lay on the back, belly up. I try shake....nothing. So I get out a treat - you could see the confusion on her face. She started to try the submit into a roll over...like she was saying "sorry... but can I have that???" Hahaha, it was pretty funny - you had to be here.

So I'm holding the treat and we are working on speak. She went from the submit to "Ok, we are doing something different here, what does this guy want???" After about 5 minutes, I got a low growl to a BURF! She got the treat. Again, after speak and waiting a few seconds and repeating myself, she had it after about 30 seconds.

Once she did the trick, we went outside and she went pee.

My plan is this right now. We are going to learn speak on command and speak is the trick she will have to do in order to go outside. I'm hoping this will carry into a walk to the door and bark to let us know she wants to go outside. I'm going to insist that my fiance or myself doesn't use the speak trick for anything other than going outside. In order to come back inside or open up other doors will have to be met with a sit so she doesn't run to the doors and jump on them...but reinforce calm behavior and learning this NILF plan....but speak is to be used to go outside and associate it with the the potty outside.

She's laying in the kitchen right now - I swear I smell dog poo, but it's probably left over from the crate. I can't see her, but I can hear when she's moving - plus, I'm done for the Thanksgiving recess so I'm not doing homework.

What do you all think, good plan?

P.S. I didn't do anything, not even scold or looked cross at her for the mess - I didn't even mention it to her or speak under my breath. I'll probably not clean the crate to help reinforce my fiance's involvement with this...I don't want her thinking I am going to be there to clean it if she won't keep to the schedule and training....hahaha.

Well, at least it's a plan... another step in the right direction.

If I may suggest though:

Whenever anyone lets her out of the crate, she should be taken right outside to relieve herself. Especially with her submissiveness, if she has to pee, she may start submissive peeing and you don't want that. As she realizes she's not being scolded for messing in her crate, that behavior should begin to disappear. Also, it can take days to a week or more for her body to adjust to the feeding schedule changes, so she needs time to adjust. Also, it's really the humans' fault for not seeing her signals in time to get her out of the crate and allow her to potty outside. (Just reinforcing that 'thinking', not reprimanding here).

I understand where you're at with leaving the poop in the crate but... this is not a good idea. If anything, you're going to get the DF pissed off for one, and you need to see what you're teaching Bdog at the same time. Your main goal is to teach Bdog not to poop in the crate, so the crate needs to be kept clean at all times. Leaving the mess in there for any length of time is only reinforcing behavior you do not want...
Another issue to consider here is 'Dirty Dog Syndrome'. This is where a dog totally loses the natural instinct to be clean, and comes from being kept in a soiled environment. I'm not saying that this is happening, but could possibly be borderline in this case, as Bdog is an older dog, and has been in a dirty crate more frequently than is desirable. If Bdog loses the will to be clean... it takes an insurmountable amount of work to get it back. Bdog needs to be kept clean also (maybe she is IDK, just need to let this be known). Any poop needs to be cleaned from her feet and butt and coat immediately. Also, Yorkies are notorious for getting butt plugs, when the poop sticks to the hair around the butt and can actually cause a blockage. Keeping the hair trimmed short around the anus can help prevent this, but she should still be checked frequently.

Do you think DF will get more on-board with the 'program' when she begins to see small improvements in Bdog's behaviors? I know I would. If anything, get a second crate to swap out so Bdog always has a clean crate.

Key times to take Bdog outside to potty are: First thing in the morning, last thing at night, after each and every play/training session, and after naps/quiet times, and after meals (watch her for timing on this one- could be 10-30 minutes after eating), and whenever anyone comes home from school or work. (Come in, put your stuff down, get her right out of the crate and outside.) And the last thing before you leave for school or work.

[Deuce]

Originally Posted by Luvdogs2

Bdog dropped the chalupa in the kennel over the course of the night. I didn't notice because I went to bed about 4 or 5 and got up at 7 to go take my test.

When was the last time she was let out for the night? maybe if you had let her out before heading to bed she wouldn't have pooed in her bed.

I didn't get a lot of time at the apartment over Monday because of duties at school and a second test I took today. I came home yesterday for a nap and went back to campus to study and meet with a design team because I'm a TA for the Senior Design projects.
Did you let the poor dog out before your nap/after?
I studied until about 5 am and was in bed about 6, got up about noon so I could take my test at 2:30 - fiance left at 2 so we were pretty much following each other out the door.
Again, who took out the pup? Where was play time?
I got done with the exam and met another group for a lab session to figure out the report. I get home at 7 so I can pack and go home to do the holiday and work in my shop to keep the business going. I came in and Bdog messed the crate again.
Well, when was the last time she went out to do her business?

I got her out and put her on the leash. All she wanted to do was hug the ground and submit - and before anyone says anything, this is what she does to my fiance or anyone that handles her when she makes a mess.
Well, what kind of punishment was put upon her when she was first being potty trained. It sounds like something pretty awful.
She knows she did something wrong or that is not acceptable.
How do you know? Can you read doggy minds? Maybe she's thinking, shoot there's that guy again, I smell tension, oh no! I'm in trouble again!
It has nothing to do with 2 swats on her nose...and while I'm on that subject, you would think that I tried to knock her into next week when I did by your responses- I'm pretty sure it pissed her off a lot more than it hurt her. I know I'm a lot bigger, but I for darn sure know I can hit a LOT harder than I did with an open hand.
That sounds pretty bad anyway, the way you're defending your actions. Many guys state similar things when they get sent to court for beating their wives "well it was with an open palm, I could have done much worse"
There are a lot of nerve endings in a dogs nose, a simple tap could cause a pretty good amount of discomfort, let your fiance open palm slap your "jewels" let us know how good that feels. I bet it hurts and angers you at the same time.

Anyway, so she's submitting and walking as low to the ground as possible so I take her over to the carpet and try working on sit....all she wants to do is submit and say "I'm sorry." More like, please don't punish me.
I keep trying to get her to sit up...nothing, lay on the back, belly up. I try shake....nothing. So I get out a treat - you could see the confusion on her face. She started to try the submit into a roll over...like she was saying "sorry... but can I have that???" Hahaha, it was pretty funny - you had to be here.
Sorry, I don't see the humor here.

She's laying in the kitchen right now - I swear I smell dog poo, but it's probably left over from the crate. I can't see her, but I can hear when she's moving - plus, I'm done for the Thanksgiving recess so I'm not doing homework.
Since you're not doing homework, maybe a nice long walk with her would be better than playing around on the internet?? Maybe??

What do you all think, good plan?

P.S. I didn't do anything, not even scold or looked cross at her for the mess - I didn't even mention it to her or speak under my breath. I'll probably not clean the crate to help reinforce my fiance's involvement with this...I don't want her thinking I am going to be there to clean it if she won't keep to the schedule and training....hahaha.
Well, that's probably why you smell dog poo.

Please consider adoption, this poor girl needs to be in a home where she isn't living in fear of the people around her.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Deuce

Please consider adoption, this poor girl needs to be in a home where she isn't living in fear of the people around her.

[celstu1]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

This isn't a fair statement. I don't want to ruffle feathers since I admire and respect you both for all you do for animals and your helpful advice, but this person is reaching out, asking for help and you both keep saying to get rid of the dog. That's not going to happen.

This dog displays a lot of the same traits as my Fletcher does. As for you telling him that he is not a good dog owner because of the dogs behavior, well you are hurting and offending ME also. My Fletcher is VERY submissive to me for NO real reason. I never hit him, I am very loving to him, gentle and know his quirky personality, but its seemingly unwarranted. I am trying to get information from this thread as well as others are I'm sure. I've had Fletcher since he was 9 weeks old, and he is now 5 years and 3 months old. I have his brother also for the same length of time, my Dexter, who is NOTHING like that at all, not submissive, not sketchy of noises and people. Fletcher literally jumps when he is laying with you and you so much as snicker at the TV or sneeze. Its sad and it breaks my heart.

I think it's time you STOP saying to get rid of the dog, that is not going to happen. Help or please, find a new thread. I feel this owner is TRYING and genuinely loves this dog and wants to help her be a better dog. Your responses as of now are not helpful to him or anyone else looking for objective advice.