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Old 11-23-2010, 11:08 PM   #132
kjc
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Originally Posted by Luvdogs2 View Post
Bdog does the same thing. My fiance has gotten her in the habit of go pee, get back into the house and when it's cold outside, she doesn't like going out. She will do the same steps. It is forward thinking and planning ahead...a cause and effect scenario if you will. Does this support the ability to be vindictive, not from the research that I have done in the last few days, but any animal that has an understanding of action/reaction borderlines on the idea that the mental capacity and the capability of such behavior.

What I would like to know is why doing something they know is wrong in a situation like that instead of pacing, barking or something other than a bodily function that has been heavily frowned upon. Why would they default to something like that... Hmmmmmm, interesting question and until somebody learns to speak dog, we'll never truly know.

I guess I could just say "I think so" or "I don't think so" - that's one way to do it I suppose.

Update for you all:
Sunday was the start of a new beginning. When I got home, Bdog was let out and we started working on a few things. I did have to leash her to the chair where my fiance sits so she wouldn't pace and I could know she wasn't doing anything wrong. She wanted down, but while I was studying, she wasn't allowed to.

We went into the living room later and she sat beside my legs while I read in the recliner and watched a little Top Gear (I wasn't too impressed by the way, they need to work on the show to make it better). We went outside a few times and she wouldn't "drop the chalupa" but did pee a few times. Fiance got home and they did the meet and greet while I chatted a little and then went back to study more.

Bdog dropped the chalupa in the kennel over the course of the night. I didn't notice because I went to bed about 4 or 5 and got up at 7 to go take my test.

I didn't get a lot of time at the apartment over Monday because of duties at school and a second test I took today. I came home yesterday for a nap and went back to campus to study and meet with a design team because I'm a TA for the Senior Design projects. I studied until about 5 am and was in bed about 6, got up about noon so I could take my test at 2:30 - fiance left at 2 so we were pretty much following each other out the door. I got done with the exam and met another group for a lab session to figure out the report. I get home at 7 so I can pack and go home to do the holiday and work in my shop to keep the business going. I came in and Bdog messed the crate again.

I got her out and put her on the leash. All she wanted to do was hug the ground and submit - and before anyone says anything, this is what she does to my fiance or anyone that handles her when she makes a mess. She knows she did something wrong or that is not acceptable. It has nothing to do with 2 swats on her nose...and while I'm on that subject, you would think that I tried to knock her into next week when I did by your responses- I'm pretty sure it pissed her off a lot more than it hurt her. I know I'm a lot bigger, but I for darn sure know I can hit a LOT harder than I did with an open hand.

Anyway, so she's submitting and walking as low to the ground as possible so I take her over to the carpet and try working on sit....all she wants to do is submit and say "I'm sorry." I keep trying to get her to sit up...nothing, lay on the back, belly up. I try shake....nothing. So I get out a treat - you could see the confusion on her face. She started to try the submit into a roll over...like she was saying "sorry... but can I have that???" Hahaha, it was pretty funny - you had to be here.

So I'm holding the treat and we are working on speak. She went from the submit to "Ok, we are doing something different here, what does this guy want???" After about 5 minutes, I got a low growl to a BURF! She got the treat. Again, after speak and waiting a few seconds and repeating myself, she had it after about 30 seconds.

Once she did the trick, we went outside and she went pee.

My plan is this right now. We are going to learn speak on command and speak is the trick she will have to do in order to go outside. I'm hoping this will carry into a walk to the door and bark to let us know she wants to go outside. I'm going to insist that my fiance or myself doesn't use the speak trick for anything other than going outside. In order to come back inside or open up other doors will have to be met with a sit so she doesn't run to the doors and jump on them...but reinforce calm behavior and learning this NILF plan....but speak is to be used to go outside and associate it with the the potty outside.

She's laying in the kitchen right now - I swear I smell dog poo, but it's probably left over from the crate. I can't see her, but I can hear when she's moving - plus, I'm done for the Thanksgiving recess so I'm not doing homework.

What do you all think, good plan?

P.S. I didn't do anything, not even scold or looked cross at her for the mess - I didn't even mention it to her or speak under my breath. I'll probably not clean the crate to help reinforce my fiance's involvement with this...I don't want her thinking I am going to be there to clean it if she won't keep to the schedule and training....hahaha.
Well, at least it's a plan... another step in the right direction.

If I may suggest though:

Whenever anyone lets her out of the crate, she should be taken right outside to relieve herself. Especially with her submissiveness, if she has to pee, she may start submissive peeing and you don't want that. As she realizes she's not being scolded for messing in her crate, that behavior should begin to disappear. Also, it can take days to a week or more for her body to adjust to the feeding schedule changes, so she needs time to adjust. Also, it's really the humans' fault for not seeing her signals in time to get her out of the crate and allow her to potty outside. (Just reinforcing that 'thinking', not reprimanding here).

I understand where you're at with leaving the poop in the crate but... this is not a good idea. If anything, you're going to get the DF pissed off for one, and you need to see what you're teaching Bdog at the same time. Your main goal is to teach Bdog not to poop in the crate, so the crate needs to be kept clean at all times. Leaving the mess in there for any length of time is only reinforcing behavior you do not want...
Another issue to consider here is 'Dirty Dog Syndrome'. This is where a dog totally loses the natural instinct to be clean, and comes from being kept in a soiled environment. I'm not saying that this is happening, but could possibly be borderline in this case, as Bdog is an older dog, and has been in a dirty crate more frequently than is desirable. If Bdog loses the will to be clean... it takes an insurmountable amount of work to get it back. Bdog needs to be kept clean also (maybe she is IDK, just need to let this be known). Any poop needs to be cleaned from her feet and butt and coat immediately. Also, Yorkies are notorious for getting butt plugs, when the poop sticks to the hair around the butt and can actually cause a blockage. Keeping the hair trimmed short around the anus can help prevent this, but she should still be checked frequently.

Do you think DF will get more on-board with the 'program' when she begins to see small improvements in Bdog's behaviors? I know I would. If anything, get a second crate to swap out so Bdog always has a clean crate.

Key times to take Bdog outside to potty are: First thing in the morning, last thing at night, after each and every play/training session, and after naps/quiet times, and after meals (watch her for timing on this one- could be 10-30 minutes after eating), and whenever anyone comes home from school or work. (Come in, put your stuff down, get her right out of the crate and outside.) And the last thing before you leave for school or work.
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