My Review of GREENS TREASURED YORKSHIRE TERRIERS - MICHIGAN

[mypreciouspups]

Originally Posted by MyFairLacy

I feel like some of you are being very unfair to the buyer. I don't think they are trying to attack brenda for no reason. They paid $1300 and expected to get a healthy puppy. Instead they have one with a major genetic disease that requires expensive surgery. Put yourself in the buyers shoes. Wouldn't you be upset? And it is important that owners of puppies with one or both parents be aware of LCP in case their puppy starts to show signs.

I want to be fair to brenda too. Yes she needs to be sent vet record and yes she may need a little time to absorb this and think. Like I said - one unhealthy puppy doesn't automatically make her a bad breeder. It's going to be in how she handles it. She may have done all she can to produce healthy puppies - but this has happened and she's going to have to step up and be responsible. I think the puppy and buyer deserve that, and I thnk a loving breeder would want to help.

Just remember that the buyer does have a right to share their experience. I'm sure brenda is very upset for various reasons, but she is not being unfairly reviewed. I think most have been very fair to her and have said they know health issues can arrise even if a breeder health screens. I know she's under no legal obligation to help because of the contract she has. I've already said I don't agree with that type of guarantee but the buyer did agree when they bought the puppy. I guess I'm hoping she will be there for the buyer and puppy anyway and most importantly research and know LCP is known to be genetic and to no longer breed the parents. She has the opportunity to do the right thing and continue her good reputation.

Michele the only thing that I did not like is the fact that had the owner of this puppy had done her part by getting paperwork from her vet and sent it on to breny's or had she asked breny for her vets fax number so the OP's vet could send paperwork along for breny to figure out prior to making a breeder look bad.. she was totally wrong.. as you know I went through hell and back.. but I had the nasty emails and comments from the breeder to me.. this girl has no proof of breny being nasty to her that I have seen nor has she posted that breny had written she was not about to help her out..

I also feel bad for the buyer and no she was not signed up for this.. but things do or can happen to the best of breeders.. and this was handled wrong IMO...yes coming on this fourm with proof of a bad breeder, a breeder that is not willing to help you or a breeder that sells you a dog then wants more money.. should be posted.. but I do feel something went terrlibly wrong at the beginning of this thread...

maybe I am wrong but I thought earlier I read someplace breny was threatened that this person would come on if breny did not act right away.. had she gotten this paper work.. maybe this could have been different at the same time..

I personally do not know either member personally if it comes down to that..

anne

[Sugar's Mom]

well, this is the review section. he didd hiss review and Breny answered. The thread should be closed at this point and if we all stop posting on it, it might make it easier for the parties involved to make a deal of some kind.

[linda44]

Originally Posted by chachi

Breny I am sorry this wasnt handled privately like I think it should have been. I have never known you to be anything but kind to people on here. What has happened here could happen to any breeder. Dont let this get you down there are many of us that look up to you

Ditto, this is not our business. It should have been private at least until all talks are over.

[Breny]

Originally Posted by mynameisjake128

2. I'm glad your experiences with brenda have been great. It's interesting though because I included my email address in my original post. I am getting private messages from others who have purchased Brenda's puppies and also seemed concerned by them. Looks like I'm not alone here. But I am standing by my best judgement and want to make anybody that is considering one of Brenda's puppies in the future to be aware of what I am going through, not just with the genetic disease, but also with the way we have been treated.

I feel I need to comment on this. I would perfectly understand my past puppy buyers wanting to talk with you about your experience but don't make it sound like they have issues as well. They also contacted me and told me they were contacting you. And told me what was said. I have a relationship with all my puppy buyers and am very proud of that. We talk regularly. You state "Looks like I am not alone here" Please don't insinuate there are others facing Lucky's same injury. No one else is. I want to make this perfectly clear.

Thanks.

[tjdmom]

It seems to me that we all run the risk of having something like this happen when we purchase a pup. There is no way ANY breeder can totally prevent this from happening. Something like this can crop up in any line and anyone who say's it can't is not being honest. How the breeder handles it is what's important. It sounds to me like Breny is handling this as well as anyone could expect. I personally would not recommend her doing a single thing until she was given your vets name and info so that she can contact them, don't you think it's fair that you at least provide that to her? I just don't understand how you would expect any kind of recompense until you have given that to her. By the way, I don't know Brenda at all. Have seen her posts on here though and the way she cares for her pups is apparent. I hope you are able to work things out.

[tiggerr36792]

Originally Posted by tjdmom

It seems to me that we all run the risk of having something like this happen when we purchase a pup. There is no way ANY breeder can totally prevent this from happening. Something like this can crop up in any line and anyone who say's it can't is not being honest. How the breeder handles it is what's important. It sounds to me like Breny is handling this as well as anyone could expect. I personally would not recommend her doing a single thing until she was given your vets name and info so that she can contact them, don't you think it's fair that you at least provide that to her? I just don't understand how you would expect any kind of recompense until you have given that to her. By the way, I don't know Brenda at all. Have seen her posts on here though and the way she cares for her pups is apparent. I hope you are able to work things out.

Well said!!
I do know Breny personally and know she will do what is right once she has a vets proof of this being genetic or caused by injury. As breeders we need to be reputable, but we also need to protect ourselves and require documentaion for proof. I truely feel this needs to be handled privately!

[MyFairLacy]

I agree with you. I would have sent a letter and records from the vet when I first contacted the breeder if it was me, and i'd give the breeder some time to work it out first. I don't know what's gone on in their private conversations or how long it's been since the buyer first contacted brenda. But I agree that vet records should be sent to her ASAP. I'm glad she's planning to do the right thing and this will actually reflect well if so. I hope that puppy recovers well and that no other puppies are affected.

Originally Posted by mypreciouspups

Michele the only thing that I did not like is the fact that had the owner of this puppy had done her part by getting paperwork from her vet and sent it on to breny's or had she asked breny for her vets fax number so the OP's vet could send paperwork along for breny to figure out prior to making a breeder look bad.. she was totally wrong.. as you know I went through hell and back.. but I had the nasty emails and comments from the breeder to me.. this girl has no proof of breny being nasty to her that I have seen nor has she posted that breny had written she was not about to help her out..

I also feel bad for the buyer and no she was not signed up for this.. but things do or can happen to the best of breeders.. and this was handled wrong IMO...yes coming on this fourm with proof of a bad breeder, a breeder that is not willing to help you or a breeder that sells you a dog then wants more money.. should be posted.. but I do feel something went terrlibly wrong at the beginning of this thread...

maybe I am wrong but I thought earlier I read someplace breny was threatened that this person would come on if breny did not act right away.. had she gotten this paper work.. maybe this could have been different at the same time..

I personally do not know either member personally if it comes down to that..

anne

[altigger74]

I feel very sorry for both parties. My question is, if the OP is not following the contract she signed (presenting papers from her vet in regards to the defect/injury) then why should Breny do anything? There has not been proof presented to the breeder, as of right now according to this thread there is only the OP's word and opinion.

My second bit of 2 cents lol! I personally have not read the contract between breeder and owner so I cannot say what the breeder should do or what is wrong with the contract wording. This should stay between breeder and owner, not the world.

[drabinowitz43]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

I think some of you are confusing Legg-Perthe's disease with LP, or Luxating Patella, which can be caused by genetics or trauma. Legg-Perthe is genetic.



I would like to see more breeders, offer to return the price of the dog, if the buyer can show proof of a genetic condition such as this. Can anyone link information that this this condition can be caused by trauma? I know lots of you are saying this, but that doesn't make it true. If a breeder is offering to exchange for a new puppy, why not just sell the puppy and give those funds to the buyer to offset the cost of treatment? This is a very serious disease and treatment is costly. If the breeder takes the dog back, what becomes of the dog? I would offer a full money replacement, and the option to keep the dog, or return it. Best of luck to the OP, I'm sorry this has happened to you, and I hope the breeder can resolve it in a way that satisfies you both.

I couldn't have said it better. Exactly what I thought about my breeder when the puppy she sold me had a liver shunt. She hasn't and wasn't required to reimburse me one penny, but I am entitled to keep my sick puppy and get another Healthy Puppy and I intend to make her stick to the contract as well.

[Miao]

I do not personally know either of the parties involved in this. However, as a reader of this review section of the forum as a potential consumer, I would like to state how I find posts like this helpful and thought it was at least part of the point of even having a section like this available here.

I agree that this matter should be handled privately between the two, but I would not wish that the OP would have kept this experience quiet no matter the outcome even if the breeder and himself were to have stayed the best of friends were it to be that the both of them acted immediately with proof in hand, or there lack of, by the one party, and a quick resolution either way by the other, with no pride hurt and no loss of trust. I would hope that the end result would be shared with the public as I would very much be interested in how the breeder has chosen to resolve the issue.

As a potential buyer who may be in the market for a dog and might have considered applying for the purchase of a pup from Breny's next litter, I would now be able to make a better informed decision. Do I want to risk buying a pup sharing the same sire as Lucky? Since it still remains undetermined on whether or not LCP is genetic, I would choose to be safe now rather than be sorry later. I would act accordingly with the assumption that it is genetic, as I am entitled to believe in what I choose to as are others. Then would I want to risk the increased chance of having to put my future pup through this kind of surgery on top of worrying if patellar luxation will become a problem since the majority of this breed seem to love jumping and simply playing hard on their little knees. Personally, I would then resist all cuteness and perfection, no matter the temperament and price listed and whether or not the sire's history of maybe ONE pup in a past litter had been known to the breeder to have had a case of LCP. I would simply wait for another litter sired and/or whelped by parents different from the pair used for Lucky. In the arrival of my decision, I will have taken into consideration the fact that there are non-confrontational type of people, for better or worse--even if the breeder would have liked to have been told--who may have kept such conditions to themselves and just dealt with the surgery, recovery and cost without notifying the seller of it--signed contract or no, genetic defect or not. I would not hold it against said breeder, if this is not a regular occurrence and it was all handled in a way fair to both parties.

As long as I am satisfied with the honesty of the breeder, I would not hesitate to apply for a pup from a different pairing that is not in direct relation to the sire or dam of the affected dog. Of course, I wouldn't be able to prevent myself from looking elsewhere if the breeder did not share the same beliefs and caution as myself, believing that until there is absolute scientific proof of genetic cause and a means to identify it, that it should not need to be mentioned in the sale of the directly related pups. In this instance, the popular line of "if you're not breeding or showing, it shouldn't matter" doesn't apply because this condition will affect a spayed/neutered pup and were I to choose to buy the pup, I would at least know that I had made this commitment with my eyes wide open.

Threads like this, I hope, will force breeders who may not have otherwise felt the need to disclose of this very important bit of information to the potential buyers to either tell all or keep mum, but we at least can judge for ourselves then if that is the kind of breeder we would want to buy from. I would rather be the one to decide for myself whether or not to believe it is a genetic condition and to choose whether or not I want to avoid this bloodline altogether. I am not one to wait until someone tells me it is poison I'm drinking before I would stop drinking it. If I don't feel good about it, no matter how many people praise it, I will not touch it. I will also not stop others from drinking to their heart's desire and possibly prospering as a result.

I am thankful for posts such as this, although not in its entirety and I don't particularly agree with the title of the thread, but if people read on the contents of the post, they will be able to filter through what is slander and hurt pride versus what is truly useful to themselves to provide for them enough food for thought to better make a confident decision in their future additions to their family.

I found the posts by MyFairLacy, Nancy1999, Lorraine, chickwit, jp4m2, kalina82 and some others either very helpful, reasonable, informative or spoke my thoughts exactly. And I really don't believe this kind of thing should have anything to do with "outsiders" or insiders. I know there's a great sense of community in every forum type of environment and it's difficult not to take anything slightly negative said as a personal attack on many friends of life, of the net, or of the trade. But I would hope that this thread doesn't turn ugly and reinforce the feeling that one is putting oneself up for a flaming by the "gang" if one only had a very real experience to share when it involves any one long time or simply popular YT member. If all that is allowed to be shared here are positive reviews, then it should be stated as such in the forum rules so that I can then rely on google to help me find blogs and other forums and review sites for feedback. It doesn't matter where I read it from, I will still take what I read with a grain of salt and figure out for myself what I choose to believe in and what is most important to me. At least on here, I would be able to read other thoughtful responses to the post from people I may have found to be a fountain of relatively educated and very logically formed opinions.

[Miao]

I just wanted to clarify, in case it was taken in the wrong light, by no means do I think Breny is a bad breeder. I also think the OP went a little far with the title of the thread to so firmly say "Don't buy from...". I should simply have stated that this is a review based on his experience with Greens Treasured Yorkshire Terriers.

Indeed, Breny is not bound legally to do anything about Lucky's veterinary bills as is stated on the puppy contract on the site. And being that the puppy was not "sold to a third party" but rather given to his mother, and by his claims, he had notified the breeder of his intentions prior to or at time of purchase, technically, there should not have been any breach of contract in that respect. The only problem is, OP should have insisted on a modification of the contract to reflect his mother as the owner and him as the representative signer and purchaser. So the only other issue here is the clause stating "[i]f this dog is determined to have a major health defect, he/she may be returned to the seller for an exchange, (no cash refunds) at that time.". I may have overlooked it, but I could not find anywhere in the contract stating a time expiry of the health guarantee. That is great. Normally, I see a 1 or 2 year health guarantee only, and of course, from the more reputable breeders, there are the life time guarantee against congenital defects. Here again, the owner/buyer needs to provide valid proof if he expects any kind of action or resolution from the breeder which, according to contract, would only be to replace the pup with another one. If she chooses not to subsidize part of the cost of surgery and/or refund partial or full cost of the purchase price of the pup, that should not be reason enough to direct people away from buying from Greens Treasured Yorkshire Terrier. As the buyer, you read the contract, you agreed to it, you signed it. You can only kick yourself for doing so if you had reason to suspect you'd need to have your breeder go above and beyond what is stated in the contract you agreed upon.

But as an onlooker and general consumer, I would hope that the seller would be morally bound to do what is fair to both parties and the pup involved when it's all said and done. Of course, again, Legg-Calve-Perthes Disease has not been proven to be a genetic cause. So what is fair? I am not one to say either way as I really do not know, that is why I find this thread informative and it gives me something more to think about. I, for one, would be one of those who would just deal with the problem myself and move on, and much more later think about whether or not my breeder would appreciate being informed of this condition my pup had found itself in.

[Sugar's Mom]

Originally Posted by Lorraine

There is a difference between puppy sellers and breeders in it for the good of the breed.
In my case, I consider myself in it for the good of the breed, not as a living to make money. Ergo, whatever health issue a puppy may present, I would take care of it with my Vet and would not put it to sleep just because it is not a market item and will cost me money to help. I don't care if it ends up living with me for the rest of its life or if I do eventually find a good home to place it in a pet home.
I have also spent money to rescue a Yorkie a couple of times that was not my breeding nothing to do with me, but it needed help. My Vets know this about me and I have no trouble getting help from them when I need it, be it my dog, puppy, or any yorkie needing help that lands in my lap.
Any reputable breeder would do the same.

I totally agree with you. If the puppy was returned to me, I would do everything in my power to get the help it needs then it would be my pet forever and ever. I have never heard of people putting them to sleep because they are sick without trying to help them. Maybe I am niave.

[Daisy23]

I have to chime in here. In one of your fists posts (OP) you stated that Brenda doenst know about the breed, well if that was the case than I would have a bum dog with problems. I bought Brenda's FIRST yorkie pup over 2 years ago and she is a very healthy, happy girl. My girl has the same father as yours and I know a few others that have the same daddy and NO problems whatsoever. Please dont come on here and bash Brenda, she doesnt deserve it. You need to show her proof, which you haven't. Maybe you can give her your vets number and let her talk to your vet to get the information your stating is true, do you have anything to hide? I feel that you need to get Brenda all the proof you say you supposedly have. You also stated that she didnt know about LCP did you ever think that she was researching the surgery involved? how common is it in Yorkies? she has the knowledge of Yorkies because if she didnt she sure wouldnt be breeding.

Knowing Brenda she will do what's right and after all this crap you've said about her and will still be in contact with you about seeing how Lucky is doing as she does with all her babies. I cant say enough about Brenda, shes a wonderful person who LOVES her babies and if there ever was a genectic issue she would never breed them. Like other breeders stated anything can happen at any time.

I would definitely buy a puppy from Brenda again!! I've recommend her to plenty of people and your post wouldn't scare me off and it shouldnt scare others off. You even said that your dad was/is getting a puppy from Brenda. Brenda surely doesnt deserve this and this should be taken up with Brenda privately, she's willing to work with you, what more do you need?!

Brenda keep your head up!!

[Brooklynn]

I personally do not know either party but looks like Breny is trying to take care of the situation. I as a breeder state in my contract that I have to have vet records and then a second opinion with an impartial vet and I guarantee for LCP for 3 years up to the purchase price of said puppy for the surgery. I consider LCP genetic. I hope both parties can work this out. Sounds like the breeder is trying to go above what her orginal contract states. Whether LCP is life threatening or not I do cover LS, LCP and a couple of other genetic issues that are within the yorkie breed for 3 years. I know most will not want a puppy back as I wouldn't want to replace a puppy because that puppy has become a part of the family. I will do anything to make my puppy buyers satisfied within reason. It's called proof of the disease.
I'm truely sorry for both parties.....besides this really needs to stay private and not brought on a public forum to hash out problems. Both should seek answers from other breeders privately to get some answers. We as breeders will have things pop up unexpectabily and if the breeder cares about their breeding program will make it right BTDT

Donna Bird
Brooklynn's Yorkshire Terriers

Donna Bird
Brooklynn's Yorkshire Terriers

[mynameisjake128]

Hello everybody,

A letter from my vet was sent to Brenda today, as Brenda requested proof this weekend.

The letter states:

Lucky, a Yorkie puppy, was diagnosed with grade 1/4 medially luxating patellas AND Legge-Perthes disease of the right hip. There is NO evidence of trama or fractures causing Lucky's lameness. The hip will require surgery and follow up physical therapy for repair and return to function. The luxating patellas do not require treatement at this time. Both conditions appear to be hereditary and affected dogs should not be bred.