My Review of GREENS TREASURED YORKSHIRE TERRIERS - MICHIGAN

[hartygirl]

Originally Posted by marcerella02

I almost feel like the "we will replace your puppy" clause seems like a good idea to a breeder because they almost know that many owners will not be returning their pup. I don' tknow... i'm very confused by it and I hope a breeder will come on and sort it all out!

I would tend to think that replacing a puppy is a good idea, giving $ back to the buyer there is no way to know if it will actually go toward the surgery. I know that there are ways to work around it but I would not be comfortable doing that. Especially when things are as tense as they are now. Both sides are on the defensive.

If I were in the breeders place I would uphold my contract, which it looks like she is doing. It would be very hard to have one of my babies from my home go somewhere and need help. I have no doubt that Brenda would like nothing more than to help her puppy. But a contract is a contract, Brenda is bound the same way the buyer is.

If I were in the buyers place I would take a look at weather or not I have the funds to spend on the surgery and recovery of my pet and make my decision based on that. Taking your hart out of decision making is VERY hard, I think to do what is best for the pup involved is the right thing here, whatever that may be.

[jencar98]

Originally Posted by Lorraine

Legge-Calves-Perthes is thought to be genetic that is correct but not proven for sure yet. However, there is wrong information, there is NO TEST for it. Until a genetic marker is found for it, there is no way in a mating a breeder will know that a pup could potentially have LCP.
If there was a test that would make it easy. Two completely normal parents can be carriers meaning they don't have it but are carrying the genes to produce it. You don't know if they are until you actually get a puppy from the mating that has it. It does help enormously if you know the lines you dealing with to know what might be in the background but that still is not a for sure thing, it can still pop up in a mating.
An LCP dog or puppy, usually manifests the symptoms by suddenly hiking the rear leg and sometimes will not walk on it at all. It is easy for the average pet owner to think they have pulled something or perhaps has a knee issue.
A visit to the Vet who will xray if LCP is suspected will confirm it. you can see it on the xray where the end of the bone going into the hip, has lost circulation and died. It almost looks like a break.
A knowledgable vet can do surgery, remove the end of the bone that has died, put it back into the hip. After initial healing gentle exercise and massage will knit a new joint.
However, the parents should be removed from the breeding program and certainly progeny should not be used for breeding again.
I have seen a Pomeranian with this, now 12 years old, living a very normal happy life and no arthritis has set in at all.
In my contracts, I have a guarantee for LCP but I would pay for the surgery and refund half the purchase price should the owner want to keep the puppy.

Lorraine - this is the difference between you and other breeders and why it's so important to research and understand who your breeder is before signing a contract. Although, just paying for the surgery should be enough, you actually go above and beyond what I would have expected by refunding half the purchase price.

[kpstoybox]

Originally Posted by marcerella02

I have a question- why do breeders say they will replace the puppy? I think this is kinda crazy. If at 11 months I found out Layla had a genetic disease you coudln't pry her away from my hands- i woudln't be looking for a "replacement". I can see the Principle of it- you promised something that was healthy and if it isn't you are going to make sure that happens- but i don't know many people that would say- well he's broken- better go get a new one... anyways- i was just wondering if maybe there was a different way breeders could handle this.

Please do not assume that by getting a replacement puppy you would always have to return the 1st pup.
I realize some breeders would only replace the puppy after the original was returned. I am not one of them.
Also...never sign a contract if you do not understand or agree with the conditions of the guarantee. Simple as that.

[tiggerr36792]

I am sorry about your puppy. I know Brenda and don't think this makes her a bad breeder. I think whats important is how this is handled so both parties feel it was handled fairly.

Perhaps she can offer to refund the purchase price of the puppy to go towards the surgery. She can also allow you to keep your precious pet and send you a replacement puppy to make this right. Whats important here is to handle this properly and honestly and fairly. You need to send vet proof of this before trying to ruin a breeder to be fair imo. This should be handled between the both of you imo properly before taking this public. I truely believe Brenda will do whats right and make sure this is handled correctly. I wish you the best and do hope it is all worked out between you both.

[txrosegirl]

i forgot to say something to the OP!!!

i am sorry you baby was diagnosed with this and i hope you and brenda can come to a solution that you will both be satisfied with. i also hope you get to keep your precious baby and like the others have said, perhaps she will be able to help out with the medical expenses up to the price you paid

we will keep your little one in our thoughts

[jencar98]

Originally Posted by tiggerr36792

I am sorry about your puppy. I know Brenda and don't think this makes her a bad breeder. I think whats important is how this is handled so both parties feel it was handled fairly.

Perhaps she can offer to refund the purchase price of the puppy to go towards the surgery. She can also allow you to keep your precious pet and send you a replacement puppy to make this right. Whats important here is to handle this properly and honestly and fairly. You need to send vet proof of this before trying to ruin a breeder to be fair imo. This should be handled between the both of you imo properly before taking this public. I truely believe Brenda will do whats right and make sure this is handled correctly. I wish you the best and do hope it is all worked out between you both.

I agree with you and hate to see dirty laundry being aired in public that possibly could be resolved amicably in private.

[kpstoybox]

[QUOTE=tiggerr36792;2546098]I am sorry about your puppy. I know Brenda and don't think this makes her a bad breeder. I think whats important is how this is handled so both parties feel it was handled fairly.

Perhaps she can offer to refund the purchase price of the puppy to go towards the surgery. She can also allow you to keep your precious pet and send you a replacement puppy to make this right. Whats important here is to handle this properly and honestly and fairly. You need to send vet proof of this before trying to ruin a breeder to be fair imo. This should be handled between the both of you imo properly before taking this public. I truely believe Brenda will do whats right and make sure this is handled correctly. I wish you the best and do hope it is all worked out between you both.[/QUOTE]

Very well said!!

[straightsilk]

Originally Posted by Lorraine

Legge-Calves-Perthes is thought to be genetic that is correct but not proven for sure yet. However, there is wrong information, there is NO TEST for it. Until a genetic marker is found for it, there is no way in a mating a breeder will know that a pup could potentially have LCP.
If there was a test that would make it easy. Two completely normal parents can be carriers meaning they don't have it but are carrying the genes to produce it. You don't know if they are until you actually get a puppy from the mating that has it. It does help enormously if you know the lines you dealing with to know what might be in the background but that still is not a for sure thing, it can still pop up in a mating.
An LCP dog or puppy, usually manifests the symptoms by suddenly hiking the rear leg and sometimes will not walk on it at all. It is easy for the average pet owner to think they have pulled something or perhaps has a knee issue.
A visit to the Vet who will xray if LCP is suspected will confirm it. you can see it on the xray where the end of the bone going into the hip, has lost circulation and died. It almost looks like a break.
A knowledgable vet can do surgery, remove the end of the bone that has died, put it back into the hip. After initial healing gentle exercise and massage will knit a new joint.
However, the parents should be removed from the breeding program and certainly progeny should not be used for breeding again.
I have seen a Pomeranian with this, now 12 years old, living a very normal happy life and no arthritis has set in at all.
In my contracts, I have a guarantee for LCP but I would pay for the surgery and refund half the purchase price should the owner want to keep the puppy.

I'm still learning about Yorkies, but in larger breeds, hip dysplasia is an equivalent condition. It is common for a national parent breed club's code of ethics to contain language that states the breeder will have all potential breeding dogs x-rayed and OFA certified. Why don't more Yorkie breeders do this? I went to the website and could only find a handful of dogs that have had their hips x-rayed. Just seems like common sense. I'm afraid a lot of borderline cases are being bred because people don't x-ray and certify. They are blissfully ignorant.

[tiggerr36792]

I want to add that I feel any breeder can have issues that arise at one point or another. We can only strive for perfection however there is no 100% guarantee no matter how much we test and do to insure healthy puppies. Things can turn up when un-expected at any given time. What sets reputable breeders apart from non-reputable breeders is how a situation like this is handled. Please handle this properly and fairly before being so set out to ruin someone. Handle this privately first before ruinning a persons reputation un-necessarily is always best.

[marcerella02]

just an interesting link from the OFA.

OFA: Legg-Calve-Perthes Information

hopefully this can be of help to the OP.

I don't know anything about Breny as a breeder or the breeder contract but i'm confused a bit- if the parents of the OP's pup had been tested- then how come Breny is still waiting for the results to come back? shouldn't the results have come back before breeding the pair? I just hope for the OP that this can be resolved- it must be heartbreaking to have a sick pup.

Please keep us posted on how your pup is doing.

[NanaDtreasures]

I know Breny and how much she cares for her puppies.
I'm sure she will do the right thing by you

I have read a lot about Legge-Calves-Perthes and I do have to say this.
There's LOTS of info out there that its not always genetic.

My Allie doesn't have it...BUT she may very well end up with it down the road.
I've done everything I can to make her stop jumping and she still jumps over 4 foot gates !!!
Back and forth all day she does this.
And jumping can cause this...it is not always genetic

That being said...
My contract says they can keep the puppy.
I feel firmly that once they have the pup it is a part of their family
My contract says I will go up to the price of the puppy to help pay for surgery.

[NanaDtreasures]

I'm sorry I was incorrect.
It was LP .... Luxating Patella I've read and was so worried about with Allie
I havent read a lot about Legge-Calves-Perthes

[mynameisjake128]

I am the OP. I tried to resolve this with Brenda without making it public.

She refused to do anything about this except take back my dog, which is not going to happen and she knows it.

She didn't know the disease was so common in Yorkies. Like someone said earlier. Blissful ignorance.

And to the lady that was defending Brenda and Greens Treasured Yorkshire Terriers. Trust me, I thought Brenda was a great breeder when I first was talking to her and when we first got our puppy from her. Now I am realizing I was wrong.

I think this should be taken public because I do not want anybody to have to go what we have gone through. To be honest, I wish more people spoke out about this type of stuff. I wish someone would have warned me about this so I would have known. AND I consider myself to be VERY knowledgeable about dogs...I was even fooled and it makes me sooooo sad and upset!

[mynameisjake128]

Marcerella02 - EXACTLY. You should be confused it doesn't make any sense does it? The breeding pair SHOULD have been tested before they were bred. They weren't though! This is what makes me sick!

My dog's dad is also the dad of brenda's upcoming litter. BUYERS BE WARNED!!

Also thanks so much for sending the link to the OFFICIAL OFA websites. This CLEARLY states that it's GENETIC!!!!! I have been trying to drive this message home, but some how certain people just don't get it! Also, every vet and specialist I've talked to have said it is genetic, too!

LCP is believed to be an inherited disease, although the mode of inheritance is not known. Because there is a genetic component, it is recommended that dogs affected with LCP not be used in breeding programs.

[journey826]

Originally Posted by marcerella02

I almost feel like the "we will replace your puppy" clause seems like a good idea to a breeder because they almost know that many owners will not be returning their pup. I don' tknow... i'm very confused by it and I hope a breeder will come on and sort it all out!

I agree,They give this supposed great guarantee and the it cancels itself because of the replacement policy.They know no one is going to give up their pup.(they are in the clear and still look good)
I have seen here some show breeders suggest letting them keep the puppy and give the purchase price back.