My 4lb yorkie is pregnant by my 10lb yorkie! First timer.. Help!

[lillymae]

Originally Posted by dottiesyrky

Now we are questioning specialists! I am done, all reason has left this thread in my view. Still praying all will go well.

Let me just say that in MY experience as a vet tech, since retired. The only time a vet sees a 4lb PG yorkie is when she needs serious help. Vets don't honestly have as much experience in a normal/natural whelp as a breeder does. Also most vets just use the canned powdered puppy/kitten formulas witch often gives a puppy/kitten the runs from he!! & that brings on a whole new set of problems as it's nearly impossible to insert an IV cath in a tiny newborn puppy or kitten as their veins are just too tiny to hold a needle. So for a knowledgeable yorkie person/breeder to question a vet on saying breeding a 4lb dog is fine, is not IMHO out of line at all & IMHO is not fine.

[bryce87i]

DottiesYrky - Thank you so much for the positive reply, I greatly appreciate it.

LadyJane - Take dottiesyrky's reply as an example of a good response to my post,
rather than the rude, stubborn, immature post that you decided to make.
Bottom line is yes, it WAS an accident - we kept them separated to the best of our
ability, and made sure she had a diaper on at all times to prevent something like this
from happening, but during the night she somehow managed to wiggle out of her diaper,
and got pregnant. So yea, it WAS an accident. And the only reason we didn't have her
spayed yet is because at some point we were hoping to have a litter with my sisters
boy pup, but unfortunately my own boy got to her first because of the diaper incident.
So again, YEAH, it WAS an accident. And you're very stubborn and thick-headed to make
the reply you just made, after everything I said in my update. Instead, most mature adults
would be happy she was successful, and simply reply with a positive attitude, congratulating
me and wishing me the best. Buuut no, you chose to act like a stubborn 5 year old and
continue to reinforce and prove the negative things I spoke of in my update. But that's ok,
some people just don't have good character. Can't blame you for that, it comes natural.

To everyone else - I'm very happy for my little girl, and glad everything was a success
If you haven't read my update yet, please do. And thanks to everyone!
Pics coming sometime soon!

[bryce87i]

Lillymae - perhaps you should read the entire thread before making comments like this. The vet never said it was fine to breed a 4lb yorkie FYI, she had already gotten pregnant by accident and was 6 weeks along before we found out. So due to the risks of doing an emergency spay that far into pregnancy, she suggested we carry it out, and most likely will need a Csection. So you're putting words in my mouth as well as the vets, because she never said it was "ok".. And let me note once again that the pregnancy specialist I saw is the author of a published book on the topic. So I took her advice, and I'm glad I did. Next time please read everything clearly before making remarks. Thanks
Sorry if I'm coming off rude, just a bit irritated.

[lillymae]

So you had planned on breeding this under sized female to another dog ? I am happy to hear that mommy & pups are all doing well but I don't feel it's safe or responsible to breed any dog under 5 lbs.

[lillymae]

Originally Posted by bryce87i

Lillymae - perhaps you should read the entire thread before making comments like this. The vet never said it was fine to breed a 4lb yorkie FYI, she had already gotten pregnant by accident and was 6 weeks along before we found out. So due to the risks of doing an emergency spay that far into pregnancy, she suggested we carry it out, and most likely will need a Csection. So you're putting words in my mouth as well as the vets, because she never said it was "ok".. And let me note once again that the pregnancy specialist I saw is the author of a published book on the topic. So I took her advice, and I'm glad I did. Next time please read everything clearly before making remarks. Thanks
Sorry if I'm coming off rude, just a bit irritated.

I believe you misunderstood my post. I never said that your vet said it was ok to breed a 4 lb dog, I did say that "I" don't believe it is safe or responsible to breed a 4 lb dog. I did read the whole thread & have followed your thread from your very 1st post. I don't believe I misunderstood anything I have read but maybe I do need to reread this thread. I am sorry if I have offended you as it was never my intent. I believe that most here who have posted in your thread have simply been passionately trying to educate & really meant no harm but have been passionately worried for your Bitch. Again, I am happy to hear all is well as I too was sick with worry for your Bitch. That said, I feel that to breed her to another dog of any size would be irresponsible, and now am begging you to spay this tiny girl.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by bryce87i

DottiesYrky - Thank you so much for the positive reply, I greatly appreciate it.

LadyJane - Take dottiesyrky's reply as an example of a good response to my post,
rather than the rude, stubborn, immature post that you decided to make.
Bottom line is yes, it WAS an accident - we kept them separated to the best of our
ability, and made sure she had a diaper on at all times to prevent something like this
from happening, but during the night she somehow managed to wiggle out of her diaper,
and got pregnant. So yea, it WAS an accident. And the only reason we didn't have her
spayed yet is because at some point we were hoping to have a litter with my sisters
boy pup, but unfortunately my own boy got to her first because of the diaper incident.
So again, YEAH, it WAS an accident. And you're very stubborn and thick-headed to make
the reply you just made, after everything I said in my update. Instead, most mature adults
would be happy she was successful, and simply reply with a positive attitude, congratulating
me and wishing me the best. Buuut no, you chose to act like a stubborn 5 year old and
continue to reinforce and prove the negative things I spoke of in my update. But that's ok,
some people just don't have good character. Can't blame you for that, it comes natural.

To everyone else - I'm very happy for my little girl, and glad everything was a success
If you haven't read my update yet, please do. And thanks to everyone!
Pics coming sometime soon!

hahahahh

[gemy]

Originally Posted by bryce87i

DottiesYrky - Thank you so much for the positive reply, I greatly appreciate it.

LadyJane - Take dottiesyrky's reply as an example of a good response to my post,
rather than the rude, stubborn, immature post that you decided to make.
Bottom line is yes, it WAS an accident - we kept them separated to the best of our
ability, and made sure she had a diaper on at all times to prevent something like this
from happening, but during the night she somehow managed to wiggle out of her diaper,
and got pregnant. So yea, it WAS an accident. And the only reason we didn't have her
spayed yet is because at some point we were hoping to have a litter with my sisters
boy pup, but unfortunately my own boy got to her first because of the diaper incident.
So again, YEAH, it WAS an accident. And you're very stubborn and thick-headed to make
the reply you just made, after everything I said in my update. Instead, most mature adults
would be happy she was successful, and simply reply with a positive attitude, congratulating
me and wishing me the best. Buuut no, you chose to act like a stubborn 5 year old and
continue to reinforce and prove the negative things I spoke of in my update. But that's ok,
some people just don't have good character. Can't blame you for that, it comes natural.

To everyone else - I'm very happy for my little girl, and glad everything was a success
If you haven't read my update yet, please do. And thanks to everyone!
Pics coming sometime soon!

Congrats on a safe C-section and that your gal is doing fine with the nursing of the pups. I do hope you know that is not always the case after a C section. By now you probably have found Debbie Jensen's web site, which has some good info and advice on whelping/puppy-care et al.

To the part I bolded; it is important for future readers to realize that diapers/belly bands et al, are not meant to be used as an impediment to breeding; they as you have found out are woefully in-adequate for that job. Usually two procedures are used, separate rooms and separate crates, and no un-supervised interactions. Males and females are exercised separately and are not let free run of the house together.

I am assuming you did not have your gal spayed along with the C-section so unless she is spayed before her next heat; I urge you to keep her separated from your male as described above.

Good luck with the pups and momma.

[Rhetts_mama]

You know what Bryce, when you post on a public forum you get lots of opinions. If you don't want that, don't post.

I for one am calling Bull on the "accidental" breeding. You had an unneutered male, and an unspayed female. Failing to plan and take adequate precautions is not an accident, it's irresponsible.

Thank the heavens that even fools get lucky sometimes and no one dies- not for lack of trying though.

[theporkieyorkie]

Congratulations on safely having the puppies. I commend you for consulting a professional and going through with the c-section. I am sure this whole thing has been a financially costly lesson for you. I am just glad it didn't cost you your little girl.


Now that you know that it's not safe to breed a 4lb female to ANY dog, I hope you do right by your little girl and get her spayed as soon as you safely can. She made it through this ordeal once, but she may not make it through again.


I thank your vet for coming here to explain her reasoning behind not doing a pregnancy spay and opting for a c-section instead.


I hope other people who think about breeding read this thread first. Too many people think they can breed anything and make a buck off it. I am not saying you are doing that...but there are others that do have that fantasy...and they don't realize how risky it is or how costly it can be. Thank goodness you had the financial backing to be able to safely birth these little babies....and thank goodness you had a vet who could safely deliver them!!

I look forward to seeing pictures!!

[bchgirl]

Congrats on the pups and glad momma and babies are doing well.

One note...if your female couldn't whelp due to the size of the pup's heads...it's likely her pelvis is too narrow.

[Lovetodream88]

Originally Posted by bryce87i

*****

MOD HERE WITH AN UPDATE!!
MOD HERE WITH AN UPDATE!!

So my little girl has safely finished carrying 3 pups!
2 girls and 1 boy!
All 3 pups are as healthy as can be, and so is momma.

First I'd like to say thank you all for the abundance of replies!
However, I'm astonished at how unfriendly this thread became.
Not only towards me and my situation, but also to eachother!
You are all extremely biased and opinionated, which is fine, because
as knowledgeable breeders you should be. But again, I think this
got a little bit out of hand.

I understand the situation was not optimal, and that's why I came here.
It was an accidental pregnancy, and was not realized until nearly 6 weeks!
Fearful, I came here to seek information and help getting through it all.
I agree that it was a dangerous situation, but instead of helping me get
through the pregnancy giving support, you all did nothing except post
hateful messages. I understand why to an extent, but again, all I wanted
was help and support getting through the pregnancy. After your initial
replies, it was suggested that I seek out professional advice from a vet,
which I went on to receive from my vet as well as a pregnancy specialist.
I was told that since she was so far along, an emergency spay would be
just as dangerous as carrying out the pregnancy. All of you disagreed and
stuck to your guns. But following the 2 vets advice, I decided to proceed
with caution. Oh and by the way, the specialist also authored a book on
animal pregnancy, so I'm pretty sure I can trust her advice confidently!

In the end, we receieved a small window for the possible duedate, so
a couple days prior to the window we went in to get an ultrasound and
test her progesterone levels, etc.. For the following 4 days we went in
daily to get her progesterone levels tested and take more scans.
In the end, she did need to get a Csection because the pups heads were
a bit too wide for her to deliver (which was highly expected), and as soon
as her progesterone levels had dropped to the correct level, she went into
surgery on day 4 (today).. Everything went great and as planned; the puppies
are as healthy as can be, and momma is doing great as well. From here
forward I will be giving momma oxytocin sprays nasally, taking close care
of the pups environment etc, and eventually weening.

I would say thank you for all the help and support, but honestly I didn't
receive any. All I got was yelled at. And although I understand why, I still
would've appreciated a bit more on the level of help and support, since
I had already understood the dangers of the situation, and chose to follow
the professional advice I got. Bottom line is, the educated decision was
made to proceed with the pregnancy because of how far along she was,
so it would've been nice if you all would've just accepted that and helped
me get through it.

Anyway, I do appreciate the info, opinions, and advice I was given, and am
happy to report a successful pregnancy.. I will try to get some pictures
of the 3 pups (as well as momma and poppa) posted up soon.

If there is anybody who is willing to provide help and support during the
next few weeks, I would greatly appreciate it, and will post any questions
or concerns I may have here on this thread.
Thanks again!

*****

I'm glad you female survived and got the c-section. I would let the mother do the weening unless something health wise is wrong with her most good breeders I have talked to do it that way. Also please keep the pups with there mom until 12 weeks. Are you planning on getting her spayed after all of this and your male neutered?

[bjh]

To the OP....first to say I am so thankful that all our prayers were answered and the mom and babies are doing okay right now. All of us on YT just has the best interested of the momma in mind when we posted. I pray the momma and her new babies do well.

You were warned by all of us that most likely the mom would need a c-section. You had a good outcome because you did listen to us and you found a good vet that explained all your options and your vet was there to help you. Unfortunately there are many people that breed small females, whether planned or unplanned, and many of them do not have the finances to do what you did. Sadly I know some people that would just let the momma try to have the pups and in some cases the pups die and occasionally the momma will die too. Thank you for seeking proper care for you girl.

I must say that I was disappointed when I read that you had planned to breed your tiny female all along, but to a different male. You are free to choose what you do with your dog but I still feel it is a unwise decision for you to breed her again in the future.

You still have lots of work ahead of you. Right now you have to concentrate on making sure the momma is eating well and the pups are all able to nurse. She needs about 4 good meals a day. Make sure she eats well right before bedtime. Make sure she is getting a calcium supplement.

Other things to look for:
If the momma's teats start looking hard and lumpy that is an indication that she is getting mastitis. If this happens you need to get her back to the vet so he can put her on an antibiotic.

If the momma starts running a high temperature (over 103), then contact the vet. Some new mommas can get a uterus infection and that can be deadly.

I do hope you keep us updated and share your experience with us, whether good or bad. Others can learn from your experience. Please feel free to ask any questions. I also hope you share some pictures with us.

[OwnedByJezebel]

Originally Posted by bryce87i

DottiesYrky - Thank you so much for the positive reply, I greatly appreciate it.

LadyJane - Take dottiesyrky's reply as an example of a good response to my post,
rather than the rude, stubborn, immature post that you decided to make.
Bottom line is yes, it WAS an accident - we kept them separated to the best of our
ability, and made sure she had a diaper on at all times to prevent something like this
from happening, but during the night she somehow managed to wiggle out of her diaper,
and got pregnant. So yea, it WAS an accident. And the only reason we didn't have her
spayed yet is because at some point we were hoping to have a litter with my sisters
boy pup, but unfortunately my own boy got to her first because of the diaper incident.
So again, YEAH, it WAS an accident. And you're very stubborn and thick-headed to make
the reply you just made, after everything I said in my update. Instead, most mature adults
would be happy she was successful, and simply reply with a positive attitude, congratulating
me and wishing me the best. Buuut no, you chose to act like a stubborn 5 year old and
continue to reinforce and prove the negative things I spoke of in my update. But that's ok,
some people just don't have good character. Can't blame you for that, it comes natural.

To everyone else - I'm very happy for my little girl, and glad everything was a success
If you haven't read my update yet, please do. And thanks to everyone!
Pics coming sometime soon!

WAY out of line. WAY WAY WAY out of line.

And by the way, for future reference, diapers are not sold to prevent dogs from mating, they are only supposed to keep the mess from getting on your furniture, carpets, etc. Dogs can and do tie with them on. Dogs even tie through a fence and in the holes through kennels. This was entirely preventable, but obviously the proper precautions were not taken, or she would not have ended up pregnant. It's not the dog's fault ... dogs do what dogs do. It's your fault, and no accident but a failure. An accident is when you back up your car and bump another car because you didn't see them behind you. You saw that your girl was in heat and did not keep the male away from her. May as well have just put a t-shirt on her, that prevents a tie just as well as a diaper.

However, that being said once the failure occurred, you did pick up the pieces and thank goodness you were able to get her a controlled c-section and all is well. I am so relieved that all are alive.

One other thing, there really isn't anyone here that can help you through a pregnancy like that. We're all just people with Yorkies on a Yorkie discussion board. Sure, there are a few that are experienced breeders, but you really needed someone to be there physically, someone who knows the danger signs that an inexperience person would not recognize. Someone there WITH you who would know what do do in even textbook normal situations. You got that when you went to your vet, it is next to impossible for someone inexperienced (I use that term in general, not specifically about you, and I definitely lump myself in that category) to get advice from people that aren't there and cannot actually exam the dam and see what is actually happening.

Really, the only thing they can do is advise you to see your vet and that is where you ended up. So please don't fault these people for not giving you as much help as you thought they should give. That is really difficult over cyberspace, and, given that she needed a c-section, they gave you the right advice.

[Yorkiemom1]

As I was concerned, the pups were too big to be delivered without a c-section. Thank God YOU had the where with all to financially handle the financial burden of the specialist and all the extra testing and hormone level checks. Please take into consideration, these posts are read by thousands of people. Everyday, people are going thru the very same experience you had....small female, large mixed breed male, questionable pedigree behind the mixed breed, etc, etc......Probably easily 80% of those same people will NOT have all the expensive testing, and specialist consulting on the pregnancy. They will just stumble into such a whelping with catastrophic and devastating consequences.....this is why the experienced breeders posted as they did on your thread. And it did turn out, exactly as we were sure it would. YOUR pup was delivered by c-section....if some of us had not spoken as we did, others may come along and think they can also go thru this with wonderful results....the difference is they may not follow up with continous lab work and ultra sounds and hormore levels and f/u with a reproductive specialist, which fortunately resulted exactly as predicted, a c-sectiuon procedure for the vet, in addition to the expensive labs and ultrasounds, etc. Not everyone will be doing this, like you did.....it is financially prohibitive to them, especially "first timers" that may not understand the danger this female was in right from the beginning. Good for you.....you followed what experience has taught the rest of us and your little lady survived along with her litter. I DO understand now why you did not want to terminate the pregnancy with a spay..........you intend to breed this female, as planned all along.

[Yorkiemom1]

Originally Posted by bryce87i

DottiesYrky - Thank you so much for the positive reply, I greatly appreciate it.

LadyJane - Take dottiesyrky's reply as an example of a good response to my post,
rather than the rude, stubborn, immature post that you decided to make.
Bottom line is yes, it WAS an accident - we kept them separated to the best of our
ability, and made sure she had a diaper on at all times to prevent something like this
from happening, but during the night she somehow managed to wiggle out of her diaper,
and got pregnant. So yea, it WAS an accident. And the only reason we didn't have her
spayed yet is because at some point we were hoping to have a litter with my sisters
boy pup, but unfortunately my own boy got to her first because of the diaper incident.
So again, YEAH, it WAS an accident. And you're very stubborn and thick-headed to make
the reply you just made, after everything I said in my update. Instead, most mature adults
would be happy she was successful, and simply reply with a positive attitude, congratulating
me and wishing me the best. Buuut no, you chose to act like a stubborn 5 year old and
continue to reinforce and prove the negative things I spoke of in my update. But that's ok,
some people just don't have good character. Can't blame you for that, it comes natural.

To everyone else - I'm very happy for my little girl, and glad everything was a success
If you haven't read my update yet, please do. And thanks to everyone!
Pics coming sometime soon!

This response and "swipe" at a person that has probably forgotten more about dogs and breedings and "accidents", than you have acquired to date, from a "novice" to breeding, a "newbie" to this forum, can only be excused because of your inexperience on all fronts. You clearly do NOT understand, among so many OTHER things, the extreme care that MUST be taken when you have two intact dogs of the opposite sex in the same area. Experienced breeders ROUTINELY have multiple males along with multiple females, running around on the same property.....and they do not have "accidental breedings".....there are no accidents, someone skrewed up, and it is usually the huiman that is in charge of the dog and pony show that did not use their head. The very first thing you MUST learn, is how to keep intact dogs from breeding....it is elementary and unless you want more unplanned pregnancies, by unplanned studs, all running around, breeding mommas and fathers, sisters and brothers, etc, YOU have to accept accountability for this pregnancy and all others that occur on your property! The truth is often times offensive and not swallowed well, but you have to realize, as a "breeder", which you clearly plan to be, you need to know your limitations and accept responsibility for whatever happens on YOUR watch. Putting a belly band and a diaper on two dogs, whose instinct to breed is so strong they would both literally walk into a house on fire to get it done, is irresponsible at best.......Dont take cheap swipes at experienced people that are trying to help you understand the perils of the path YOU have chosen. I have a mentor that has made me cry with her brutality and honesty...but she has made me everything I am today in this breeding game.....I will add I have NEVER had a female "accidentally" bred by anything! Not everyone is all warm and fuzzy with their responses....take it, and either learn from that particular view and approach, or move on without it. Then one day, 25 or 30 years from now, look back and SEE who you learned the most from, and the technique they used to get major points across you.