Wording...

[spr377]

Originally Posted by tammys

For the record: I will admit that some recent posts spurred me to finally say something, but like I said at the beginning of my post, this has been weighing on me for a while, and I haven't even been here that long.

So, it wasn't just those recent posts that got me thinking about this.

I don't think (at least I hope not) that there is malice in the rude replies. I imagine just frustration coming out in words, which we all know can be hurtful.

If everyone just took a few extra seconds to figure out exactly what they want to ask or reply with (without judgement, b/c that is usually not what the asker needs), it would make a world of difference.

I think your posts in this thread have been well-written. You have expressed how many of us feel. No matter what, there are always people that are looking for a reason to be upset.......that is what makes them happy, believe it or not! Nothing to b##~* about = not happy! lol I love this board, but have been afraid to voice opinions at times.

[FlDebra]

Originally Posted by tammys

For the record: I will admit that some recent posts spurred me to finally say something, but like I said at the beginning of my post, this has been weighing on me for a while, and I haven't even been here that long.

So, it wasn't just those recent posts that got me thinking about this.

I saw you had only been here what, two weeks? Sometimes it takes longer than that to sort of get to know the participants in a forum, see who really is there to help others, often with more than words. Once you know them better, you also get a better feel for their intent, their passions, their own convictions, and their "walk." You don't usually get that in two weeks or a very few postings. It takes time to really get to know folks. Sometimes a new poster is not always as they seem either. I try to reserve some of my "sympathies," if I initially have them, until I see the cut of their jib. I have gotten burnt jumping on the wrong band wagon too soon before. (Sorry for mixing metaphors).

I don't think advice always needs to be sugar-coated to be useful. I think some ducks need to be called ducks -- I think the big picture is often more important than the individual's sensitivity. But I wrote some of my reasoning in the other thread that seems to have spurred this one at least partially. I am not going to repeat my whole post here but instead link to the thread -- it is post #38 there http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/bre...-newbie-2.html. See if you can see there might be another side of the coin after reading there.

[FlDebra]

Originally Posted by justlucas1

... Wow such a neative out look on life and people sweetie... you and Dee seem to just have a Huge Chip on you.
...I am Not what ALL this Negativity has made me out to be... Wow. I am truly grieved by all this Junk, Gossip,Murmurring. Please go on, I am sorry. If I had any idea...

Sorry, but I am seeing a lot of negativity from you. You can frame it all up with good words, but it is still there. Calling people "sweetie" when insulting them is pretty sarcastic. Does that not cause you to be "truly grieved" too? You can't keep stirring the pot, insulting others and throwing fits, while claiming to be "the glass half full girl." It doesn't play.

If you really want help for that little pg baby of yours, it is here. I will be more than glad to let you know some of the things to talk with your vet about as soon as you get an appointment. There are some great experienced breeders here that will also gladly give their valuable knowledge about pregnancy, whelping and raising the litter. That is where your priority needs to be. Why not just look at it that you have rescued a pregnant 1 year old Yorkie and need help from here on out. I am sure you will get lots of input. Just be open and don't get mad so easy. It is hard to help someone who is throwing stones at you.

[tammys]

Originally Posted by FlDebra

I saw you had only been here what, two weeks? Sometimes it takes longer than that to sort of get to know the participants in a forum, see who really is there to help others, often with more than words. Once you know them better, you also get a better feel for their intent, their passions, their own convictions, and their "walk." You don't usually get that in two weeks or a very few postings. It takes time to really get to know folks. Sometimes a new poster is not always as they seem either. I try to reserve some of my "sympathies," if I initially have them, until I see the cut of their jib. I have gotten burnt jumping on the wrong band wagon too soon before. (Sorry for mixing metaphors).

I don't think advice always needs to be sugar-coated to be useful. I think some ducks need to be called ducks -- I think the big picture is often more important than the individual's sensitivity. But I wrote some of my reasoning in the other thread that seems to have spurred this one at least partially. I am not going to repeat my whole post here but instead link to the thread -- it is post #38 there http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/bre...-newbie-2.html. See if you can see there might be another side of the coin after reading there.

I have read so much of this today, my head is swimming.


I know what you mean about making premature judgements, but I didn't have to be on here more than a day to read replies that could have been worded with more thought, empathy, and compassion.

After reading those, my thought was not, "Wow, that person really knows her stuff, and is being so helpful." It was, "Wow, that person was rude."

I also did not need to be here long to see that there were very knowledgeable, helpful people on here. But sometimes that knowledge was drowned out by judgment and rudeness. It's just those few negative ones that stick out, b/c they tend to be hurtful and insulting.


I'm not talking about sugar-coating things; but there needs to be an awareness that someone might feel attacked or judged b/c of the tone of the reply. Then what good had been achieved? You might feel better b/c you got it off your chest, but who was really helped? Not the person who needed it.

It's so hard to decipher that tone through writing though...that's the reason we should take the extra step to make sure it comes across as supportive and helpful. The facts absolutely must be shared, but the OP shouldn't be made to feel badly. They should be thinking, "I am so glad to be on this board, and get so much help and advice." They shouldn't feel attacked or scared to post something.

I am also not defending all OP's. I have read some that literally make me shake my head in disbelief. I feel badly for the person/dog/situation, and would love to make it better if I could. But I know that anger will not help anyone. Like I said before, many of you know how these exasperating situations can end. I imagine that this knowlege and possible memories make you want to just smack someone silly! But it doesn't work. Educating others without judgment will go a long way in improving bad situations, and possibly worse outcomes.


I am one of the few people I know (not patting myself on the back, but like you said, just calling a duck a duck) that goes out of her way to make sure she does not hurt people's feelings. Because I tend to be overly sensitive, I make sure I don't make someone else feel badly.

So, when I see someone being curt or rude, it bothers me. It is the middle of the night, and I have rambled enough and feel like my posts keep repeating themselves. I would love to put this to rest, and have everyone be happy. I realize I may be living in a fantasy land, but I can dream....actually, I will go do that now.

'night.

[tammys]

Oh my gosh! Would you believe I actually forgot to same something? I can't believe I have anything left.

Again, sorry for all this writing. Apparently, I have finished the novel and I'm now working on a triology!




You said:

I think the big picture is often more important than the individual's sensitivity. But I wrote some of my reasoning in the other thread that seems to have spurred this one at least partially. I am not going to repeat my whole post here but instead link to the thread -- it is post #38 there Please Help...Breeding questions from Newbie. See if you can see there might be another side of the coin after reading there.

Yes, in many instances you're right about the big picture and sensitivity, but when it comes to helping others, I don't think that would be true. If someone comes to this board for help and support, that is what they should get. I can't imagine that insensitive helpfulness would ever be helpful...plus it's just not necessary. It doesn't help anyone.

In your post #38 you said:

"You very politely tell them what they should have done and then offer some ideas to help." - That's all I'm talking about.


Also, your post did not spur my original post. Mine was written before your reply.

Okay, NOW I'm going to bed. I wish I knew how to turn my brain off and stop thinking!

[chachi]

Alot of good experienced breeders dont post on here anymore because they were attacked because of how they replied to a thread or called rude. In fact there are very few breeders on here now and thats the shame

[chachi]

Originally Posted by chachi

Alot of good experienced breeders dont post on here anymore because they were attacked because of how they replied to a thread or called rude. In fact there are very few breeders on here now and thats the shame

Oh and they were always attacked by people who had no experience breeding or very little experience. They just got feed up

[FlDebra]

Originally Posted by tammys

[COLOR=darkorchid]In your post #38 you said:

"You very politely tell them what they should have done and then offer some ideas to help." - That's all I'm talking about.


Also, your post did not spur my original post. Mine was written before your reply.

I think you have misunderstood what I said. Here is the quote: "But I wrote some of my reasoning in the other thread that seems to have spurred this one at least partially. " In other words I was saying that the other thread spurred this thread -- not that my post within that thread did. I linked the thread and told you the number to my post as I was thinking you may have not read it since I knew it came after.

We will have to part ways on some of the other issues. I understand what you are saying, but I still believe some issues cannot be worded as nice as some people want. For instance, I saw nothing rude about the second post in the other thread. But the OP went off on that member. So, my feeling is the real rudeness came from the very person claiming to want help. She was the name caller, the "yeller," the ranter. Others very calmly said their piece, which did include that the brother had been irresponsible, a fact that the OP now seems to agree to.

There will always be differences in the way people look at things and the preferences they have for wording -- most of which depends on their particular part in the play. (For instance, the very person that claims she was attacked seems to be doing most of the attacking!) Some of those differences are good -- they make up the diversity that keeps life interesting and minds learning. If everyone agreed with everyone else all of the time, who would ever open their mind to new ideas? Who would ever dare to look at life differently and maybe, just maybe see something new? I used to look for people who were not afraid to disagree with me in the workplace. It did one of two things -- either made me find new justification for my own convictions or opened my mind to another way to look at things. I felt like either way, I won! Don't be afraid of different views! I respect your right to feel differently than I do, but ask for the same in return.

[tammys]

Originally Posted by chachi

Oh and they were always attacked by people who had no experience breeding or very little experience. They just got feed up

It is sad that they felt attacked - but that's how some other people who are still here feel. I don't think anyone needs to have breeding experience to feel offended or attacked.

So, the inexperienced people felt that the breeders were being rude? And the experienced people felt attacked by the breeders? I can see why this topic has been around for a while, and will most likely continue.



That being said, I realize that some OP's can also be rude and defensive, causing bad feelings all the way around.

In no way was I pointing fingers at one particular person or breeders.
My theory applies to everyone: Be nice.

[chachi]

Originally Posted by tammys

It is sad that they felt attacked - but that's how some other people who are still here feel. I don't think anyone needs to have breeding experience to feel offended or attacked.

So, the inexperienced people felt that the breeders were being rude? And the experienced people felt attacked by the breeders? I can see why this topic has been around for a while, and will most likely continue.



That being said, I realize that some OP's can also be rude and defensive, causing bad feelings all the way around.

In no way was I pointing fingers at one particular person or breeders.
My theory applies to everyone: Be nice.

Inexperienced breeders and nonbreeders would call them rude and so forth. I see your point but I also see when it might be needed for a breeder to be very direct and not beat around the bush.

[tammys]

Originally Posted by FlDebra

I think you have misunderstood what I said. Here is the quote: "But I wrote some of my reasoning in the other thread that seems to have spurred this one at least partially. " In other words I was saying that the other thread spurred this thread -- not that my post within that thread did. I linked the thread and told you the number to my post as I was thinking you may have not read it since I knew it came after.

We will have to part ways on some of the other issues. I understand what you are saying, but I still believe some issues cannot be worded as nice as some people want. For instance, I saw nothing rude about the second post in the other thread. But the OP went off on that member. So, my feeling is the real rudeness came from the very person claiming to want help. She was the name caller, the "yeller," the ranter. Others very calmly said their piece, which did include that the brother had been irresponsible, a fact that the OP now seems to agree to.

There will always be differences in the way people look at things and the preferences they have for wording -- most of which depends on their particular part in the play. (For instance, the very person that claims she was attacked seems to be doing most of the attacking!) Some of those differences are good -- they make up the diversity that keeps life interesting and minds learning. If everyone agreed with everyone else all of the time, who would ever open their mind to new ideas? Who would ever dare to look at life differently and maybe, just maybe see something new? I used to look for people who were not afraid to disagree with me in the workplace. It did one of two things -- either made me find new justification for my own convictions or opened my mind to another way to look at things. I felt like either way, I won! Don't be afraid of different views! I respect your right to feel differently than I do, but ask for the same in return.

Puppies needed a feeding, so I am still up. ***sigh***

I think I'm too tired, b/c you lost me on the first part. LOL

I don't think we are disagreeing as much as it may have seemed at first.

Anyway, I absolutely respect anyone's rights to feel differently, and am not afraid of that. Believe me, very few people believe the way I do in many, many ways. LOL The world would be a very boring place if we all felt the same way.

[tammys]

Originally Posted by chachi

Inexperienced breeders and nonbreeders would call them rude and so forth. I see your point but I also see when it might be needed for a breeder to be very direct and not beat around the bush.

I agree. There are times when the only way to get across to someone is to just lay the cards on the table, but that can still be done with respect if the OP was being respectful. What bothered me was when someone didn't need to be told off and they were.

I think it just happens when things are this impersonal...comes with the territory. Ya know what I mean?

[chachi]

Originally Posted by tammys

I agree. There are times when the only way to get across to someone is to just lay the cards on the table, but that can still be done with respect if the OP was being respectful. What bothered me was when someone didn't need to be told off and they were.

I think it just happens when things are this impersonal...comes with the territory. Ya know what I mean?

Yes I think it just comes with internet forums. Ive been on some way worse than this one

[chachi]

Originally Posted by chachi

Yes I think it just comes with internet forums. Ive been on some way worse than this one

Oh and I need to say I was also attacked by a breeder when I was brand new to this forum about buying a yorkie from a breeder that let them go at 8 weekis. This was a very respected breeder on here and it stung at the time but I did realize she was right and learned something from her. I think every poster on here can take that approach if they dont take whats written so personally

[tammys]

Originally Posted by chachi

Oh and I need to say I was also attacked by a breeder when I was brand new to this forum about buying a yorkie from a breeder that let them go at 8 weekis. This was a very respected breeder on here and it stung at the time but I did realize she was right and learned something from her. I think every poster on here can take that approach if they dont take whats written so personally

I understand what you're saying, but even though she was absolutely right, and knew her stuff, why was it said in a way that stung?

I imagine it was b/c she knows how bad it is for that tiny baby to leave her mom and littermates so early, and she probably got that feeling of, "I CAN'T BELIEVE SOME PEOPLE DO THIS!!"

But those feelings could still be voiced without leaving a sting. That's easy for me to say, b/c at the present moment I am not irritated (just dog tired - actually puppy tired! ). We are human and sometimes our moods just take over. Maybe if we all step back and try to see the other's person's position it would be smoother.

You are also right about taking it personally. If we don't take it to heart, then it wouldn't hurt - but that's easier said than done for some of us.