Reputable Breeders Stiffled

[nanahas3]

I wanted to say one more thing and its just MO I think professionals of all kinds sometimes come off as arrogant and rude when giving advice. I am a retired cosmetologist and I have told people how they are hurting their hair with colors, perms and shampoos that they by in local chains and been called a snob by some saying they cannot afford to by professional products. I was like the breeders trying to give advice about what they have studied, learned, and know, was only trying to help my clients by giving them my professional advice. If we all put ourselves in one anothers shoes I think we would do less fighting. JMO. Now I will shut up.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by chachi

I appreciate the reputable breeders on here and there opinions. I can understand why the thread got closed. If anyone on the forum did a thread about why they didnt donate it would be closed so why should it be any different if the breeder was a reputable breeder or just a pet owner? I think the mods here do a very good job and that its not easy

I guess I see it a little differently because part of the ethics of breeding involves not advertising. So if they are donating to a site that allows advertising, it might conflict with their ethics.

[FlDebra]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Well, that was a great post, but I've got to tell you it was strange seeing my name posted with the others. A couple of years ago, I was just like you, and was one of those sponges!

Thanks. Your experience may not be in as many years as some (I could not tell), but I have appreciated the content of your posts just the same.

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by nanahas3

I wanted to say one more thing and its just MO I think professionals of all kinds sometimes come off as arrogant and rude when giving advice. I am a retired cosmetologist and I have told people how they are hurting their hair with colors, perms and shampoos that they by in local chains and been called a snob by some saying they cannot afford to by professional products. I was like the breeders trying to give advice about what they have studied, learned, and know, was only trying to help my clients by giving them my professional advice. If we all put ourselves in one anothers shoes I think we would do less fighting. JMO. Now I will shut up.

I don't think giving your professional opinion is rude or arrogant it's the profession you are in and you are just trying to help I guess sometimes they just can't take honest advice...I'd rather be truthful than sugar coat it

Donna

[Brooklynn]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

I guess I see it a little differently because part of the ethics of breeding involves not advertising. So if they are donating to a site that allows advertising, it might conflict with their ethics.

And I can't go against my ethics and honestly why would anyone want me too and I don't think anyone would want me to ask them to go against theirs

[Breeze]

Originally Posted by FlDebra

I think people have to understand that differing with someone's opinion is not bashing them. Saying what you feel is ethical and safe breeding, even if it is opposite of what someone else is doing, is not bashing them. So many times in threads where alternative opinions are offered, many jump to the defense and say, "don't be rude,don't jump on that person, don't degrade, etc....."

People need to be able to offer differing opinions. Why would anyone want information to stand unchallenged? Sometimes a post may not be all saccharine and sweet because the poster feels strongly about correcting a perception before too many others think the practices are appropriate.

We have to be able to debate some issues. Otherwise, what is the use of such an informative source? Threads that are closed, are usually closed, not because the experienced breeder breeched protocol, but because others jump on the bandwagon to defend the right of the controversial breeder to continue with their practices in ways that are inflammatory, insulting, or accusatory.

I continue to learn daily. I see others contemplating breeding coming to YT daily too. If some of these threads are allowed to go unchallenged, what are the new breeders to think? What are they going to learn? I want to hear from as many sources as possible. We are all mature enough to decide who we want to choose for an information resource. But if only one opinion is allowed to stand, what choices will be available?

I thank the experienced breeders that care enough about the Yorkshire Terrier, to keep coming back and offering advice, correcting misperceptions, and sometimes enduring insults to protect the future of the breed. It is a dedication to purpose that I respect and appreciate. So to Brooklyn, Mardelin, Lorraine, Nancy, and I know I am missing several others.... but thanks to all of you! Please keep doing what you do -- there are a lot of us soaking it up like a sponge!

Great post!!! Thank you!

[chachi]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

I guess I see it a little differently because part of the ethics of breeding involves not advertising. So if they are donating to a site that allows advertising, it might conflict with their ethics.

I see your point exactly

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by FlDebra

Thanks. Your experience may not be in as many years as some (I could not tell), but I have appreciated the content of your posts just the same.

Lol, a couple of major differences are I've never owned a female dog, and I've never seen a puppy being born.

[QuickSilver]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

I guess I see it a little differently because part of the ethics of breeding involves not advertising. So if they are donating to a site that allows advertising, it might conflict with their ethics.

If someone said that was the reason they didn't donate, I would understand. There were several reasons listed, none of them flattering, and none of them mentioned advertising ethics.

Personally, I feel that if you go to a site regularly, as a rule of thumb, you should donate. If the board really bothers you, then don't go. I'm not saying this applies to everyone 100% of the time. Different people have different financial situations, etc. But I think it's nice to try.

[QuickSilver]

Also, there's always the saying, Love It, Leave It, or Change It. If someone loves YT but has a very serious problem with some aspect of it, I think it would be worth it to suggest changes. This is just off the top of my head, but couldn't people lobby to only make puppy sales allowable from YTCA members? Or perhaps that wouldn't work if advertising is not allowed.

Given that there have been some very ugly threads involving disputes over yorkies sold here, I would see that as a legitimate possibility.

I have to admit I'm really curious about what these super controversial topics are... any chance you'd PM me?

[chachi]

Originally Posted by QuickSilver

If someone said that was the reason they didn't donate, I would understand. There were several reasons listed, none of them flattering, and none of them mentioned advertising ethics.

Personally, I feel that if you go to a site regularly, as a rule of thumb, you should donate. If the board really bothers you, then don't go. I'm not saying this applies to everyone 100% of the time. Different people have different financial situations, etc. But I think it's nice to try.

I agree with you but even if she gave a reason why she didnt donate it still would have been closed because its negative towards the site. I can see the dilema on all sides

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by QuickSilver

If someone said that was the reason they didn't donate, I would understand. There were several reasons listed, none of them flattering, and none of them mentioned advertising ethics.

Personally, I feel that if you go to a site regularly, as a rule of thumb, you should donate. If the board really bothers you, then don't go. I'm not saying this applies to everyone 100% of the time. Different people have different financial situations, etc. But I think it's nice to try.

I hope it's ok to paste a post from a closed thread, but her first sentence was:

I dont like the puppy selling that goes on here, I don't like the wrong colours promoted here. You will not find a reputable breeder selling anything here. i don't like the poor quality yorkies bred to be sold here but that's my opinion, if you don't agree that's your opinion.

I think these are all valid ethical concerns.

[QuickSilver]

I think it's pretty easy.

"I would love to donate to YT, but unfortunately, the ethics code of YTCA does not permit me to donate to any type of organization, website or otherwise, that advertises yorkies. The End."

[JoshieBoy]

Originally Posted by Brooklynn

I don't plan on leaving YT as I do enjoy the showing section alot and the grooming section! Trust me I'm the same in person as I am here...I give the same opinions in person as I would here. And to be honest I can be judgemental especially when it comes to breeding unethically but I guess that is a character flaw I'll just have to live with LOL...there is another thing I always tell people, you will either like me or you won't and if you don't it doesn't hurt my feelings because we can't like everyone LOL...I do try and say things politically correct because I work with the public and well you gotta have it sometimes AND I do really sit on my hands and bite my tongue A LOT LOL

Donna

I am not saying you are a different person off the thread. What I am trying to say is sometimes it is hard to determine different people's post without hearing the tone of their voice. On this forum, nobody knows everybody. It can be hard to decipher a blunt post without personally knowing the person's character. I just met you on this forum, and I personally do not know you. I cannot tell anybody anything personal about you except that you love animals and that you try to help people. I agree not everybody is going to like you. Sometimes people get upset when you tell them the truth, because sometimes the truth hurts. I always try to say something in a kind way when somebody is wrong. I want them to be able to listen to what I have to say without thinking I am judging them. I try to have empathy for the people I try to help. Nobody is perfect. Sometimes we do not say things in the kindest manner, but at least we should try. After reading your post, I can tell you try your best to help others with tact.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by QuickSilver

Also, there's always the saying, Love It, Leave It, or Change It. If someone loves YT but has a very serious problem with some aspect of it, I think it would be worth it to suggest changes. This is just off the top of my head, but couldn't people lobby to only make puppy sales allowable from YTCA members? Or perhaps that wouldn't work if advertising is not allowed.

Given that there have been some very ugly threads involving disputes over yorkies sold here, I would see that as a legitimate possibility.

I have to admit I'm really curious about what these super controversial topics are... any chance you'd PM me?

We have talked to admin about it and they have decided to stay with the advertising. YTCA members would never advertise here or elsewhere, it's forbidden, but you have to remember they are not in the puppy selling business. There really is a difference between selling a dog and placing a dog. I would like to see the "featured breeders" section done a way with too. I thought that that meant they came highly recomended and had passed certain tests and requirements.