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-   Yorkie Showing & Information (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/yorkie-showing-information/)
-   -   Parti Color? YTCA? (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/yorkie-showing-information/211769-parti-color-ytca.html)

kpstoybox 09-13-2010 10:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darbygale (Post 3269253)
I would say most are doing both. Non-refundable deposits???? Please!
Are you implying it's only parti breeders that have non refundable deposits?

And just what does this have to do with the parti and it's right to have a variety class?

Rhetts_mama 09-13-2010 11:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darbygale (Post 3269237)
Since parti breeders can get parti and traditional colored yorkies in the same litter, there is nothing to prevent them from showing or selling the traditional colored yorkies, that are more than likely a carrier of the parti gene, to the unsuspecting public. If it is colored traditional, they register it that way and if parti, they register it as parti. I have also heard that the biewer people do the same. Both are just a scam to make bigger bucks selling puppies, just like people who use the term "teacup".
That's the whole point of my question. If a parti breeder has a traditional colored yorkie from parti parents, then it could be assumed that the pup is also a parti carrier (3:4 chance). But traditional colored breeders ARE having parti colored pups, too, and continuing their breeding programs, passing the parti genes in to other lines. It could take several generations for a parti pup to show up in those new lines. Without accurate records and honest breeders, this will continue- and parti breeders are unfairly taking the blame.

By registering them (accurately) as traditional pups from Parti lineage, then the onus is put on the new owner to research the lines BEFORE buying and breeding the pup. The first step to doing that is getting the AKC to recognize that Parti Yorkies do exist and making it easier to register them.

And again, no one has answered the root question- is there any other "fault" associated with the Parti gene other than "we've always done it this way, so it's the way we are going to continue to do it" mindset?

kpstoybox 09-13-2010 11:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darbygale (Post 3269237)
Since parti breeders can get parti and traditional colored yorkies in the same litter, there is nothing to prevent them from showing or selling the traditional colored yorkies, that are more than likely a carrier of the parti gene, to the unsuspecting public. If it is colored traditional, they register it that way and if parti, they register it as parti. I have also heard that the biewer people do the same. Both are just a scam to make bigger bucks selling puppies, just like people who use the term "teacup".
:scratchhe

I'm sure I am gonna regret this....but isn't that how they SHOULD be registered, since they are the color they are being registered as? :confused:

Elle 09-13-2010 11:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhetts_mama (Post 3269297)
That's the whole point of my question. If a parti breeder has a traditional colored yorkie from parti parents, then it could be assumed that the pup is also a parti carrier (3:4 chance). But traditional colored breeders ARE having parti colored pups, too, and continuing their breeding programs, passing the parti genes in to other lines. It could take several generations for a parti pup to show up in those new lines. Without accurate records and honest breeders, this will continue- and parti breeders are unfairly taking the blame.

By registering them (accurately) as traditional pups from Parti lineage, then the onus is put on the new owner to research the lines BEFORE buying and breeding the pup. The first step to doing that is getting the AKC to recognize that Parti Yorkies do exist and making it easier to register them.

And again, no one has answered the root question- is there any other "fault" associated with the Parti gene other than "we've always done it this way, so it's the way we are going to continue to do it" mindset?

Who's whelping these white puppies? I've never heard of them showing up anywhere that could not be traced back to another breed.

darbygale 09-13-2010 11:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpstoybox (Post 3269290)
Are you implying it's only parti breeders that have non refundable deposits?

And just what does this have to do with the parti and it's right to have a variety class?

Nope, don't think I said that. I do think non-refundable deposits kind of falls in line with this ...... exorbitant prices.

If you want a breed that has a variety class, get a poodle. Yorkies do not have a variety class and never will in my lifetime and I have a lot of years ahead of me.

bchgirl 09-13-2010 11:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhetts_mama (Post 3269297)
That's the whole point of my question. If a parti breeder has a traditional colored yorkie from parti parents, then it could be assumed that the pup is also a parti carrier (3:4 chance). But traditional colored breeders ARE having parti colored pups, too, and continuing their breeding programs, passing the parti genes in to other lines. It could take several generations for a parti pup to show up in those new lines. Without accurate records and honest breeders, this will continue- and parti breeders are unfairly taking the blame.

By registering them (accurately) as traditional pups from Parti lineage, then the onus is put on the new owner to research the lines BEFORE buying and breeding the pup. The first step to doing that is getting the AKC to recognize that Parti Yorkies do exist and making it easier to register them.

And again, no one has answered the root question- is there any other "fault" associated with the Parti gene other than "we've always done it this way, so it's the way we are going to continue to do it" mindset?
It is impossible to get a traditional colored puppy from two parti-colored parents. The parents have nothing to offer but the recessive piebald gene unlike a traditional colored dog which could carry BOTH genes.

Elle 09-13-2010 11:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpstoybox (Post 3268962)
Very interesting indeed. Color variations can actually be a "side effect"...for lack of a better term...when something is inbred for another trait. Could that be why the parti seems to show up more in "show" lines? Things that make you go hmmm........



Well if this held any merit, what about the numerous people that have pets that mate at home everyday. How many of them have shown up as little white dogs out of nowhere? We all know that breeder from all over would be aware or this epidemic over time if this was a concern whatsoever. Isn't it enlightening to any of you that there isn't any history on a white dog in our breed?

darbygale 09-13-2010 11:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhetts_mama (Post 3269297)
That's the whole point of my question. If a parti breeder has a traditional colored yorkie from parti parents, then it could be assumed that the pup is also a parti carrier (3:4 chance). But traditional colored breeders ARE having parti colored pups, too, and continuing their breeding programs, passing the parti genes in to other lines. It could take several generations for a parti pup to show up in those new lines. Without accurate records and honest breeders, this will continue- and parti breeders are unfairly taking the blame.

By registering them (accurately) as traditional pups from Parti lineage, then the onus is put on the new owner to research the lines BEFORE buying and breeding the pup. The first step to doing that is getting the AKC to recognize that Parti Yorkies do exist and making it easier to register them.

And again, no one has answered the root question- is there any other "fault" associated with the Parti gene other than "we've always done it this way, so it's the way we are going to continue to do it" mindset?
If parti breeders are selling traditional colored yorkies that are carriers and not telling the buyers, why should they not take the blame. A biewer breeder stated on one of these forums that if they had a puppy born with traditional coloring they would register it as a yorkie and it not, a biewer. Now how ethical is that?

Most breeders I know do not believe, myself included, that there is not another breed involved in the partis. If you want a mixed breed dog, go rescue one from the shelter. Even the biewer people admit now that they are not full bred yorkies. The DNA testing that everyone thinks is so great shows about 5 different breeds. And who is to say that people are not inter breeding traditional, parti and biewers together? At one point in time they said they had to bring the black and tan in to keep the colors going or they would eventually be too much white.

kpstoybox 09-13-2010 11:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elle (Post 3269305)
Who's whelping these white puppies? I've never heard of them showing up anywhere that could not be traced back to another breed.

Did you miss the two or three pages in this thread that shows that CH Hylan Acres Ridin' The Storm produced a litter that consisted of 2 beautifully marked parti pups? The owner of Ridin the storm told the bitch owner to whom these parti's were born too...to pet them out. From what I have read here...the owner of the bitch had the puppies DNA'd by the AKC to prove heritage...and AKC papers were issued on ALL the pups.

Ridin' the Storm was proven to be the sire to those parti pups by DNA..and his pedigree is "supposedly" all clean...top of the line show lines. Where did the parti come from in this instance?

Rhetts_mama 09-13-2010 11:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bchgirl (Post 3269312)
It is impossible to get a traditional colored puppy from two parti-colored parents. The parents have nothing to offer but the recessive piebald gene unlike a traditional colored dog which would carry BOTH genes.
You are correct if it's two parti's. But the question I was responding to suggested the scenario of parti- carriers being bred to traditional colored dogs (2:4) or other parti carriers (also 2:4 - sorry for the quick miscalculation) by breeders who were trying to hide their lines.

Elle 09-13-2010 11:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darbygale (Post 3269311)
Nope, don't think I said that. I do think non-refundable deposits kind of falls in line with this ...... exorbitant prices.

If you want a breed that has a variety class, get a poodle. Yorkies do not have a variety class and never will in my lifetime and I have a lot of years ahead of me.
A parti colored poodle is a Dis Qualification.

darbygale 09-13-2010 11:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpstoybox (Post 3269303)
:scratchhe

I'm sure I am gonna regret this....but isn't that how they SHOULD be registered, since they are the color they are being registered as? :confused:

yes they should register them as partis but they should also tell people the traditional colored are carriers and not try to pass them off as purebred yorkies.
If your goal is to have partis, why register the traditional ones at all, neuter them and sell them as pets. They obviously are not as valuable to you. If I ever produced a parti I would be spaying and neutering the sire, dam and every puppy.

kpstoybox 09-13-2010 11:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darbygale (Post 3269311)
Nope, don't think I said that. I do think non-refundable deposits kind of falls in line with this ...... exorbitant prices.

If you want a breed that has a variety class, get a poodle. Yorkies do not have a variety class and never will in my lifetime and I have a lot of years ahead of me.
I didn't say you said it...but you did imply it.

darbygale 09-13-2010 11:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elle (Post 3269321)
A parti colored poodle is a Dis Qualification.
BINGO!!! So is a parti colored yorkie. I didn't say to get a parti colored poodle, I said it you wanted a variety to get a poodle, they have toy, mini and standards.

darbygale 09-13-2010 11:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpstoybox (Post 3269325)
I didn't say you said it...but you did imply it.
and how did I imply it? If I want to say something, I will, I do not rely on implications.


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