Nature's Logic dry kibble

[_Chrissy_]

Thanks for talking about this.
I didn't notice RC had changed ingredients.
I'm going to look into NL chicken to change the boys over.

[_Chrissy_]

Originally Posted by silverjoy

This is why I YT!!!
The info and education is wonderful!!
Makes me a better dog mama when good info is posted!!!

I AGREE!

[Ellie May]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Yes, that does concern me. That's one of the reasons I use RC, I do think a company can have more control, but from my understanding so far, it sounds like they have been very careful in choosing their facilities, the facility for their raw food is also used for human meat. The truth of the matter, is I no longer trust Royal Canin. They should have at the very least informed me of the changes. Do you honestly believe the new food is as good as the old?

I am not 107barney, but yes I do believe the new food is as good.

[107barney]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

I am not 107barney, but yes I do believe the new food is as good.

Well, I AM 107barney and I too believe the food is just as good

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

I am not 107barney, but yes I do believe the new food is as good.

Originally Posted by 107barney

Well, I AM 107barney and I too believe the food is just as good

Not to be rude, but have either one of you ever had any nutrition classes?

[107barney]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Not to be rude, but have either one of you ever had any nutrition classes?

I'm not sure why it matters but since you asked the answer is yes.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by 107barney

I'm not sure why it matters but since you asked the answer is yes.

It matter because I'd like to know why you think all proteins are equal. Also, do you have some information about Brewers rice that I don't' know about? Please link me anything you have that tells me about why Brewers rice is a good thing, that is the number one ingredient of the new product.

[Ellie May]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Not to be rude, but have either one of you ever had any nutrition classes?

Yes, I have. Actually, Cathy has a degree in bio and I will have mine shortly.

No, I do not believe that all proteins are equal or equally bioavailable. But in this case I do not think that RC is throwing handfuls of beaks and feathers in just to increase the protein percentage. I understand the by-product hate. There are lots of other companies if it bothers you. But some by-products are, in fact, extremely nutritious.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

I am not 107barney, but yes I do believe the new food is as good.

Originally Posted by 107barney

Well, I AM 107barney and I too believe the food is just as good

I am not either of the above, but I would personally believe it because I am a blind, deaf and dumb follower.

Just kidding of course. I think too many of these "holistic" companies and other people trying to make money off of pet owners (example Dog Food Advisor) have pretty much used the only thing they can to compete and I am not at all convinced of the validity especially when I see so many of those companies having recall after recall.

There is another thread where some natural site is bashing AAFCO now...lol of course they are!

Here is part of an email I received from a vet nutritionist when I was trying to decide what to feed my pups. I had specifically asked about Castor and Pollux because I was having some concerns. I will also share it on that thread. I am by NO means an expert and I doubt many here are.....what I will say is that I find Ellie May and 107barney to be very well read on this topic.

----------------------------------
From Castor and Pollux web site: Natural Ultramix Puppy Food is formulated to meet the nutritional levels established by the AAFCO Dog Food Nutrient Profiles for growth and gestation/lactation.

This food has been formulated according to AAFCO profiles but not feeding trial tested. A statement of feeding trial tested is preferred when you select a product.

I would recommend looking for the following statement on the label of whatever you feed for best assurance of performance of the product. Here is an example:

"Animal feeding tests using AAFCO procedures substantiate that Brand X Dog Food provides complete and balanced nutrition for maintenance of adult dogs." (or "all life stages" which would be in the case of puppies or breeding animals etc.)

Here is some additional info on the difference. Regards, Dr. (left name out as I did not get permission to share)

Nutritional Adequacy Statement or "AAFCO Statement"

Every pet food label must contain a statement and validation of nutritional adequacy. AAFCO regulations allow two basic methods for pet food manufacturers to substantiate claims.

Formulation Method — Requires the manufacturer to formulate the food to meet the AAFCO nutrient profiles for dogs and cats.

This method is less time consuming and less expensive because feeding trials with pets are not required, only a calculation of the nutrient levels.

An example of an AAFCO statement using the formulation method would be: "Brand ABC Cat Food is formulated to meet the nutritional levels established by AAFCO Cat Food Profiles for maintenance of adult cats."

Feeding Trial Method — Requires the manufacturer perform an AAFCO-protocol feeding trial using the food as the sole source of nutrition.

Gold Standard or preferred method.

Documents the pets' performance when fed the food.

An example of an AAFCO statement using the feeding trial method would be: "Animal feeding tests using AAFCO procedures substantiate that Brand X Dog Food provides complete and balanced nutrition for maintenance of adult dogs."

[ladyjane]

OH! This is the thread where the comments were made about AAFCO. LOL my age keeps showing.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

Yes, I have. Actually, Cathy has a degree in bio and I will have mine shortly.

No, I do not believe that all proteins are equal or equally bioavailable. But in this case I do not think that RC is throwing handfuls of beaks and feathers in just to increase the protein percentage. I understand the by-product hate. There are lots of other companies if it bothers you. But some by-products are, in fact, extremely nutritious.

I'm speaking of a class specifically in nutrition, not biology. Also, what do you mean beaks and feather to increase protein percentage? I don't understand that, nobody is deny that by-products contain protein, but there is no standard for byproducts and we don't know if it's useable protein. Sure there nutrition in almost anything, but I'm talking about quality protein, not just protein.

Also, do you want to address the fact that brewers rice is now the number one ingredient?

Yes, I know there's a lot of other companies out there, thank god they aren't all being bought by Mars.

[107barney]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

It matter because I'd like to know why you think all proteins are equal. Also, do you have some information about Brewers rice that I don't' know about? Please link me anything you have that tells me about why Brewers rice is a good thing, that is the number one ingredient of the new product.

I think Brewers Rice is probably used in dog food because it can provide carbohydrates and fiber without affecting the nutrient profile of the other ingredients. My understanding is that the AAFCO definition of brewers rice is that it is simply small fragments of rice kernels that have been separated from the larger kernels of milled rice. I've had some issues feeding home cooked rice to three of my dogs, but two of them can eat RC formulations w/ rice. So I just think it depends on the other ingredients in the formulation. I don't believe any one ingredient makes a food "bad" or "good" simply because it is there. I think it depends on the dog.

[107barney]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

I'm speaking of a class specifically in nutrition, not biology. Also, what do you mean beaks and feather to increase protein percentage? I don't understand that, nobody is deny that by-products contain protein, but there is no standard for byproducts and we don't know if it's useable protein. Sure there nutrition in almost anything, but I'm talking about quality protein, not just protein.

Also, do you want to address the fact that brewers rice is now the number one ingredient?

Yes, I know there's a lot of other companies out there, thank god they aren't all being bought by Mars.

Yes, I took a year of nutrition at the college level along with other classes relevant to nutrition like biochem and physiology -- all of those give me a nice background to dabble in the reading but I don't work in the field, and it's been many years since I took those classes. I'm also not posting here as an "expert" so my "credentials" are not really relevant to my opinions. People should use their own judgment and priorities when selecting a food for their pet, or ask an expert.

[107barney]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

I'm speaking of a class specifically in nutrition, not biology. Also, what do you mean beaks and feather to increase protein percentage? I don't understand that, nobody is deny that by-products contain protein, but there is no standard for byproducts and we don't know if it's useable protein. Sure there nutrition in almost anything, but I'm talking about quality protein, not just protein.

Also, do you want to address the fact that brewers rice is now the number one ingredient?

Yes, I know there's a lot of other companies out there, thank god they aren't all being bought by Mars.

Nutrient profiles tell you if the protein is usable by looking at the amino acids.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by 107barney

I think Brewers Rice is probably used in dog food because it can provide carbohydrates and fiber without affecting the nutrient profile of the other ingredients. My understanding is that the AAFCO definition of brewers rice is that it is simply small fragments of rice kernels that have been separated from the larger kernels of milled rice. I've had some issues feeding home cooked rice to three of my dogs, but two of them can eat RC formulations w/ rice. So I just think it depends on the other ingredients in the formulation. I don't believe any one ingredient makes a food "bad" or "good" simply because it is there. I think it depends on the dog.

This is now the first ingredient, lets get real, Mars makes Uncle Bens and a lot of other rice products, they have lots of brewers rice left over, so they use it in dog food. It's empty calories, yes dogs need calories, but why not give them a quality carbohydrate that has vitamins and other nutrients. I'm finding a 5 pound dog, not a pig going to market. I've never been the type to look at one ingredient and make a decision based upon that. I never thought Royal Canin for Yorkshire Terrier was a great food, it was a "good" food in my opinion, however going from chicken meal to chicken by-product and using brewers rice as the first ingredient instead of chicken meal, lowers the quality substantially.